Vinegaroon - My Sad Post

mickiem

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I got 5 mature Vinegaroons M. giganteus last November (remember November) with the hopes of breeding them. I searched "how to determine gender" and quickly became a Goon gender expert. Argh! They were all males! I shared/traded/sold 3 and decided to keep 2 for pets. Vinny #4 was found dead one morning in December being devoured by some horrible maggot. Vinny #5 has been quite the pet; inquisitive, active and a very good eater. He came out any time I removed his screen cover. Even when I walk into the bug room he peeks out to see me. He says hi, we have a beer, you know - we bond. So yesterday when I fed him I was surprised when he didn't come out to see me. I picked up his bark cave and he was beneath it clinging upside down. I saw what looked like a cicada molt. It was at a right angle to his body and whitish. I thought back to the evil maggots and wondered if those 1/4" monsters could have grown into a cicada or parasitic version of a cicada. #4 was in a separate cage and #4's cage was totally cleaned & sterilized. But this cicada looked like it was sucking the life out of my sweet vinny boy. (raise your hand if you know where this is going) :(

I put him back and was devastated. One of my bug helpers came over and we decided we would see if we thought something could be done. I raised the cave again and this time he dropped about 3" to the floor of his enclosure. That's when about 20 eggs fell out of his egg sac, aka parasitic cicada. I could see the babies were nearly formed. I just put his cave back and ran to my library to read a little Orin on the topic. Remember November (and this is July)? Remember when she was a male because I am a Goon Gender Expert?

I checked on her and her babies this morning all all the eggs were gone. I suppose she'd eaten them. I am so sick over this. I never knew how long the long the process to the egg sac was, I didn't consider this situation as a possibility, I never knew what the egg sac looked like; I always thought it was horizontal or in line with her body and I certainly am no Goon Gender Expert. Apparently.

Moral of My Sad Story - I am never an expert, just a collector of experiences. Hope this helps someone so you don't have to cry over spilled babies. PS - I don't really drink beer.

Goon Eggs.jpg Vinegaroon Female.jpg
 

mantisfan101

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Really sorry to hear about that, and I really hope that maybe something gets worked out eventually. Also, just curious but how did you sex them, or what made you think that the female was a male?
 

mickiem

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Really sorry to hear about that, and I really hope that maybe something gets worked out eventually. Also, just curious but how did you sex them, or what made you think that the female was a male?
I can't remember where I got the information but it had to do with the overlapping of the segments and the operculum. I have 10 babies (yearlings) that I haven't sexed yet. I am going to gather information until I have a handle on it and put it to practice on my babies. Do you have a good source? These are likely too young to sex but I would love to keep a few less than 10!
 

mantisfan101

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There was a picture but it was only for mature specimens. Also where did you hear about the overlapping segments? I just ordered orin’s book on them so hopefully that helps. I got a pair that I initially thought was a m/f pair but I looked at the operculum and it looked male, although tbh I haven’t really sexed these in a while
 

mickiem

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Orin's book is great. There are so many different species and each one has different anatomy so that makes it hard. But Orin talks about the structure of the operculum with some great photos. and sorry for not having the correct anatomy down, but the thumbs exhibit a big difference too. I watched a pretty good YouTube video by Bugs in Cyberspace.
 

Hisserdude

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That sucks, so sorry to hear it... 😭 To be fair, if I didn't know better I'd have thought it may have been a parasitic organism too, vinegaroon egg sacs are really freaking weird looking...
Just as an FYI, I hear females are very prone to eating their sacs if disturbed at all when carrying them, I'm not talking about dropping them, I'm talking about just digging around their enclosure and accidentally breaching their brood chambers, (if they constructed one instead of just hiding under an object or something), without even roughing them up. Kinda like what some centipedes will do. So if you ever suspect you've got a gravid female, or see one in a chamber against the glass carrying eggs, definitely don't disturb them, as that may lead to her eating all her eggs... 😨
 

mickiem

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That sucks, so sorry to hear it... 😭 To be fair, if I didn't know better I'd have thought it may have been a parasitic organism too, vinegaroon egg sacs are really freaking weird looking...
Just as an FYI, I hear females are very prone to eating their sacs if disturbed at all when carrying them, I'm not talking about dropping them, I'm talking about just digging around their enclosure and accidentally breaching their brood chambers, (if they constructed one instead of just hiding under an object or something), without even roughing them up. Kinda like what some centipedes will do. So if you ever suspect you've got a gravid female, or see one in a chamber against the glass carrying eggs, definitely don't disturb them, as that may lead to her eating all her eggs... 😨
Thanks. Yeah, when a few eggs spilled out I figured she's eat the rest of them. I never even considered HIM being a gravid female. That was where I went astray. But I'll try, try again! I think I read somewhere that if the egg sac is damaged the eggs quit developing. Do you know if that is true?
 

Hisserdude

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Thanks. Yeah, when a few eggs spilled out I figured she's eat the rest of them. I never even considered HIM being a gravid female. That was where I went astray. But I'll try, try again! I think I read somewhere that if the egg sac is damaged the eggs quit developing. Do you know if that is true?
Yeah, "he" really surprised you on that one... But hey, if your other one IS a male, you can try pairing him with your female. 😁
And yes I believe if the eggs are removed from the female they would die...
 
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