Versicolor death: vents vs substrate

Ic4ru577

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
239
Last week, I found my versicolor dead on the ground. It was a 2 inch sling. I kept the subs dry with 2 water dish. I took apart the enclosure already.
1DC99135-6168-4D1F-8313-BCA3A67B087A.jpeg
I shared my experience with 2 local breeder/supplier in Indonesia. I live in the tropics and last week the temperature was reaching 34C.
One of the breeder was suggesting the ventilation holes for versicolor is at least 4 mm in diameter. Mine is 2 mm in diameter. This lead to higher temp in the enclosure. Subs need to be dry.
The other supplier keeps his avics on moister subs. He said my enclosure was too dry. When I found my versicolor, the bottom dish was almost empty but the top one was half filled.
I am thinking that maybe both of them are right. If I keep versicolor too dry, the t will be easily dehydrated even when fed regularly. I am not sure about the minimum requirements for diameter of vent holes.
Right now I am planning to look for another versicolor and trying different enclosure and method.
3B70FEC9-2793-4B6C-83F9-3A55E95AE912.jpeg
I am planning to filled the bottom part with gravel for drainage with moister subs and one large water dish. I will moist part of the enclosure about a third. From there I will flood the drainage regularly to create moister layer underneath. Do give me suggestion and inputs on my second try. Thx u for your time.
 

basin79

ArachnoGod
Active Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
5,893
Plenty of ventilation. Sub not bad. Better on the dryer side. No need for any drainage as the sub should never be that damp.

Not seeing any hide though nor plants.

Not stating a lack of hide had anything to do with it that's the biggest flag for me. Although again unless it was stress.

But not every tarantula that hatches is guaranteed to make it.
 

Ic4ru577

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
239
I lean 2 pieces of corkbark together against the background. It created a web tunnel between the cork bark and background near the top
 

basin79

ArachnoGod
Active Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
5,893
I lean 2 pieces of corkbark together against the background. It created a web tunnel between the cork bark and background near the top
Ah right. Didn't notice that. Looks like it's towards the bottom though.

Being arboreal they want a hide up high with fake plants to web up.

Also read it as 24c instead of 34c. 34c is also very warm for a tarantula so if your tarantula actually experienced that sort of heat that might very well have killed.

The enclosure is too big too. How long did you have your tarantula? Did you actually witness him/her feeding?
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
17,851
Last week, I found my versicolor dead on the ground. It was a 2 inch sling. I kept the subs dry with 2 water dish. I took apart the enclosure already.
View attachment 367210
I shared my experience with 2 local breeder/supplier in Indonesia. I live in the tropics and last week the temperature was reaching 34C.
One of the breeder was suggesting the ventilation holes for versicolor is at least 4 mm in diameter. Mine is 2 mm in diameter. This lead to higher temp in the enclosure. Subs need to be dry.
The other supplier keeps his avics on moister subs. He said my enclosure was too dry. When I found my versicolor, the bottom dish was almost empty but the top one was half filled.
I am thinking that maybe both of them are right. If I keep versicolor too dry, the t will be easily dehydrated even when fed regularly. I am not sure about the minimum requirements for diameter of vent holes.
Right now I am planning to look for another versicolor and trying different enclosure and method.
View attachment 367212
I am planning to filled the bottom part with gravel for drainage with moister subs and one large water dish. I will moist part of the enclosure about a third. From there I will flood the drainage regularly to create moister layer underneath. Do give me suggestion and inputs on my second try. Thx u for your time.
I don't know what your cage temps were, can't address that. Venting wasn't the cause at all re hole size.

However, I've raised all my Avics completely dry with a water dish nothing more, temps 72-74 day/68-70 night I've been raising them like this for decades.

However, if you keep any Avic very dry as I do, you must provide a water dish and/or monitor abdomen size daily (to be strict) and make sure they are hydrated. I feed my Avics, including versi, as often as they will eat, including daily if they want to. BUT, they still drink with large abdomens. If they are dehydrated a bit they won't eat.

There's no need to change your cage method based on the pics I saw except add plants at the top down, down the sides.

Read my clink below, Avics don't always drink from dish, including the same specimen
 

Ic4ru577

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
239
I think it is the high heat that killed the T. I imagine it would be better to keep the subs slightly moist so it will emulate the soil which a plan can grow instead of complete desert.
I leaned 2 barks forming a semi circle all the way to the top of the enclosure. With the rocky backgrounds, it created a lot of anchor points. It made its web at the top of the enclosure.
I plan to use the drainage and straw to introduce water into the lower part of the subs while keeping the top part dry.

The corkbark run all the way to the top. I add 1 fake plant at the top. The brownish bark doesnt help against brown background.
I do think heat was the issue. Because I kept mine too dry, this created desert like environtment. If the room reaches 33-34c during the day, it should reach higher temp inside the enclosure. Some moisture will help with the heat.
I just rehoused and it molted in the new enclosure. I dropped stunned red runner nymph or mealworm inside the web and it will be gone the next day. Sometimes i saw it took the prey immediately.

Ah right. Didn't notice that. Looks like it's towards the bottom though.

Being arboreal they want a hide up high with fake plants to web up.

Also read it as 24c instead of 34c. 34c is also very warm for a tarantula so if your tarantula actually experienced that sort of heat that might very well have killed.

The enclosure is too big too. How long did you have your tarantula? Did you actually witness him/her feeding?
 

Liquifin

Arachnoking
Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
2,110
C. versicolor slings usually don't make it for various reasons, but if the care was fine, which it seems fine to me, then it was just more of a bad case of a weaker specimen. I'm just speculating here, so no one has to agree with me.
 

Polenth

Arachnobaron
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Messages
460
I think it is the high heat that killed the T. I imagine it would be better to keep the subs slightly moist so it will emulate the soil which a plan can grow instead of complete desert.
I leaned 2 barks forming a semi circle all the way to the top of the enclosure. With the rocky backgrounds, it created a lot of anchor points. It made its web at the top of the enclosure.
I plan to use the drainage and straw to introduce water into the lower part of the subs while keeping the top part dry.
It's actually harder for most animals to keep cool in high humidity, so your solution doesn't match the problem. Placing the enclosure on the floor in your coolest room might knock a few degrees off though.
 

Ic4ru577

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
239
I am just wondering because the second supplier in my country suggested moister subs.

It's actually harder for most animals to keep cool in high humidity, so your solution doesn't match the problem. Placing the enclosure on the floor in your coolest room might knock a few degrees off though.
I am not suggesting high humidity because afterall being in the tropical coast lead to higher humidity. I am just trying to see if both of the supplier has their merits. Both of the suppliers has plenty of experience and has successfully bred multiple species here.

I am not trying to rewrite the care guide. I spent almost 5 years in Cleveland. I think dry subs work in more temperate climate. I could just put my versicolor in air conditioned room, but I just think in the wild, the versicolor should have moister subs. Since the temperature and climate of Antilles and Indonesia are similar, there should be another way other than air conditioner. So I am thinking moister subs, bigger water dish and more vents should work.
 

Matt Man

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
1,685
sadly some just die, which is why slings are typically cheaper. It may have been nothing you did or any environmental factor. set up looks good, and I'd just add some foliage near the top as others have mentioned. The old school of thought was avics / caribenas died from too little moisture but so many on this board showed you could raise them quite dry and ventilation was more important. You appear to have lots of holes so I don't think that's the issue.
 

Matt Man

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
1,685
breeze is important, that is how cooling happens in tropical arboreal environs, air moving. An enclosure limits air movement and thus internal temps rise. It could be numerous degrees hotter inside the enclosure than it is in the room. Moist substrate may provide some evaporative cooling
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
17,851
breeze is important, that is how cooling happens in tropical arboreal environs, air moving. An enclosure limits air movement and thus internal temps rise. It could be numerous degrees hotter inside the enclosure than it is in the room. Moist substrate may provide some evaporative cooling
Like cooking a child in a car during a warm summer day.
 

The Grym Reaper

Arachnoreaper
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
4,835
Ventilation wasn't the issue, I use less ventilation holes than are on that first enclosure and I've never had any issues.

As for moisture, I just overflow the water dish to moisten about 1/4 of the sub for my Aviculariinae and repeat when it dries out.
 

Ic4ru577

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
239
Thx. That was my plan. Partially moisten the subs.
Ventilation wasn't the issue, I use less ventilation holes than are on that first enclosure and I've never had any issues.

As for moisture, I just overflow the water dish to moisten about 1/4 of the sub for my Aviculariinae and repeat when it dries out.
 
Top