ventilation?

[chuck]

i read that a T's tank shouldnt have a great ventilation of air, b/c of the slow breathing rates and too much air would somehow sufficate it? but the only way i can get the humidity lowered is if i remove all and any ceran wrap from the top.

and can anyone else seem to get top soil to go below 70%?!?!?!?!?! no matter what i do, fans, heat lamps, heat matts, oven, its not drying out

also, i posted this Q in another thread, those who buy Peat, where do you get it, my local flower shop sells Peat Humus, will that be effective in detering mites?

 

[jper26]

With a heating lamp on top I wouldent see why you cant get the humidity below 70. You can get peat at wallmart,lowes, home depot.

 

[chuck]

and its just sold as Peat?
im going to leave a thin layer of top soil in the tank with a heat lamp right above it all night, ill check the humidity tomorrow.

 

[jper26]

If you are worried about too much air lowering the humidity will bring more air.

 

[Cooper]

and its just sold as Peat?

I bought mine as natures gold peat moss, it was either peat moss or sphagnum moss. Cant remember

 

[MrDeranged]

Originally posted by chuck
i read that a T's tank shouldnt have a great ventilation of air, b/c of the slow breathing rates and too much air would somehow sufficate it? but the only way i can get the humidity lowered is if i remove all and any ceran wrap from the top.

Where did you read that? Wherever it was destroy the source before more people read it. In many cases (especially arboreals) ventilation is way more important than humidity levels (as discussed in way too many threads on the forums). A slow breathing rate only means that they need alot less oxygen than we do, not that they would die if they get too much air. I've never heard of someone suffocating from too much air....

and can anyone else seem to get top soil to go below 70%?!?!?!?!?! no matter what i do, fans, heat lamps, heat matts, oven, its not drying out

If you're retarding ventilation (seran wrap) it's going to keep humidity up as the moisture has nowhere to escape to. What are you keeping that you have the top covered?

also, i posted this Q in another thread, those who buy Peat, where do you get it, my local flower shop sells Peat Humus, will that be effective in detering mites?

Just go to Home Depot and buy some Sphagnum Peat moss. I think they come in 2 or 5 cu. ft. bales. The best defense against mites is keeping a clean dry tank. The peat may help some but that doesn't mean that it will deter mites if the conditions are right.

Scott

 

[chuck]

does sphagnum moss have the same affect as peat moss? i dont suppose you can make a substrate 100% sphagnum moss

and im not doing anything to restrict the ventilation when i dry out the top soil. i had them on cookie trays, and when i put the hydrometer on the soil then, id get a read of the room not the soil. so i decided to put a thin layer in the tank that i would be using, then placed a heat lamp above it and 6hrs later its still at 70%. i can get it to reach 60% when i have it in a room with the AC on full blast and a fan on blowing over it, but its too cold to keep a T in those conditions all day.

 

[deifiler]

To my knowledge, the main concern for bad airflow is the potential of fungal and mould growths, both of which can damage your spiders lungs.

Just increase the ventilation a bit - remember humidity is the amount of water particles within the air (That's a brief summary, I'm waiting one of you science boffs to come along and put me to shame)

Increase the ventilation, be it drilling more holes or uncovering the lid etc... Spraying the sides will keep up the humidity, and you should notice the soil dry out to some extent. If you're worried, by an in-expensive hydrometer and keep an eye on things for a few weeks

Oh, one more tip, using a slightly warmer water should help the particles diffuse into the air a bit easier.

 

[Telson]

This is a mojor issue I've had confusion over myself for years...


I've always read that humidity is THE major factor and that if not kept high enough the book lungs dry out and the spider "suffocates" since book lungs transfer oxygen by airflow passing over them rather than through inhalation/exhalation as in mammals.

Recently I'm hearing/reading a lot more regarding ventilation being a major issue, primarily to avoid molds and infestations by mites and such that feed on the molds, and the better the ventilation is the harder it becomes to maintain a humidity level that differs from the air outside the enclosure.

Since I've read that many species vary in the humidity level required, such a A.avic needing very high humidity and G. rosea needing much lower, how is one supposed to maintain both at a steady specific range without limiting ventilation considerably on the avic enclosure?

What little specific info I've found has not so much been "conflicting" or "contradictory" I guess, as it has simply been rather poorly explained and leaves me with more questions than answers quite often...




Anyone who can offer a detailed answer to this dilema would have my utmost appriciation.

Thanks.

 

[arachnopunks]

We have always had good ventilation. We had a post on how we used substrate. It can be used to your advantage. We have a 70/30 mix of sphagnum peat moss and vermiculite both purchased in large amounts at a local Home Depot for less than $20. We put a layer of vermiculite on the very bottom of the enclosure then the mixture goes on top to the desired depth. The layer of vermiculite on the bottom creates a separation that allows excess water to drain through very efficiently and then subsequentally leaching humidity back through the layers. We have a couple different set-ups some with just peat, some with just vermiculite, and some with the descibed layers. The layering has proved to be much easier to maintain whether dry or humid. The humidity can take a while to clear out thus eliminating the need for misting at all. In our experience, potting soil, top soil, and the like have been a major thorn in our side. Our T. blondi has a completely ventilated screen top on a ten gallon aquarium and the layering system of substrate she really responds too. I encourage others to try it with one or two of their T's who are more humid responsive and leave the others as they are. You should notice a difference. The key to proper leaching is to not over wet the vermiculite layer, and wetting is as simple as overflowing the water dish a little allowing the water to drain into the vermiculite. Say goodbye to misting!

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Telson
What little specific info I've found has not so much been "conflicting" or "contradictory" I guess, as it has simply been rather poorly explained and leaves me with more questions than answers quite often...

Anyone who can offer a detailed answer to this dilema would have my utmost appriciation.

Here's my take on it: any source that said a T would suffocate because the book lungs will fail in the absense of high humidity should be burned, it's complete and utter bollocks. FWIW, I'd be curious to know the source or sources because this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say this about humidity.

The most common explanation for the necessity of humidity is that it plays an important role in moulting; this is in my opinion also complete and utter bollocks. Where it got started, I don't know, but there is no scientific basis for it, but you get a lot of the "I've always kept the humidity high and my moults go well so it must be doing something" arguments for it.

The second most common explanation for the necessity of humidity is that the T will dessicate and die without high humidty; this is, again, complete and utter bollocks in my opinion. This one is harder to dispel because the caresheets are almost without fail junk when it comes to their recommended humidities, and even the two good books out there (Shultz and Marshall's) err on the side of caution for their recommended humidities.

I've kept Ts for years at ambient RH (30%-40%) and have never had a moulting problem except for one that arrived mid-moult, and have certainly never had a T suffocate or otherwise dessicate. Humidity is the most hugely overrated element of T husbandry. If you want to use a room humidifier to raise humidity in a spider room I see no problem with it, but if you're doing anything else,even the recently repeated post from Stan Shultz himself about using saran wrap to raise humidity, I think you're making a huge mistake.

Water dish: yes.
Moist substrate: maybe.
Retard ventilation: never.

At least that's my take...

 

[Telson]

Well, this is the problem I've faced for years:

One of the experts says retard venitlation to maintain humidity, another says mist the enclosure on a regular basis but DON'T retard ventilation, another says do both, and then someone says humidity isn't really an issue and no one has shown scientific reasoning or evidence that it is an issue... Not trying to be rude, but you're not providing any scientific reasoning or evidence that humidity is not a factor either.

Not to shoot down your post, but I'm inclined to believe that relative humidity meeting that of the specific species natural habitat should be relatively important. Perhaps a T might not desicate or suffocate from dried out book lungs if their homeland humidity isn't met to a perfect level, but logicly the safest course of action in the face of a glaring lack of science seems to be to try to match their natural environment in as many respects as possible.

My questions are more directed at how best to maintain a relative humidity close to that found in each T's home range without sacrificing ventilation for humidity's sake or vise versa, and without creating other problems inherant to high humidity such as mold and infestations and yet not be reliant on daily misting? It just seems that all the "do's" seem to drag a glaring "don't" right behind them...

With a local humity range of about 30%, and having read that A. avic should be kept around 70%-80%, I see now way to do this without restricting ventilation, and therefore creating the problem of mold and thus making it a high maintenance enclosure that needs the substrate replaced every couple months. Recently having read info on G. rosea regarding their home range I can relax and let the local humidity level suffice. Others in my collection may require 40%-75%, and could suffice to mist every couple days for the lower end of the range, but those in the higher end of that range bring me right back to the same prob as the A. avic enclosure...

The levels of varied substrate and fully ventilated screen top post seems to be the most effective solution for the moment, but how does it affect burrowing, and what % humidity does it maintain without misting? Obviously this solotion will do well for some species but not meet the requirements of others... I would imagine that would result in about 60%-70% at most unless you live in a place that has a higher humidity than where I live. I think relative humidity of the area where the T's are house can make a big difference in how to maintain their enclosures. What works well in the deep woods of Kentucky may fail misserably in Las Vegas Nevada for instance....

 

[Code Monkey]

Hmm...

OK, you want scientific reasoning:

I keep ALL my Ts at ambient humidity, whether they're a desert Brachypelma or a rainforest Avic. I've been doing this since 1982 or so. This has resulted in zero moulting problems, zero health problems.

That's what you would call your humidity control.


There are plenty of people who perform all kinds of voodoo to maintain varying humidities with their Ts.

There is NO significant difference in their results and mine.

Scientifically speaking, the conclusion is that humidity has no signficance in T husbandry.

If you want published data, you'll be dust before that ever happens, anecdotal experience is what you get in this hobby. Trust it or not, that's your choice.

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Telson
Not to shoot down your post, but I'm inclined to believe that relative humidity meeting that of the specific species natural habitat should be relatively important. Perhaps a T might not desicate or suffocate from dried out book lungs if their homeland humidity isn't met to a perfect level, but logicly the safest course of action in the face of a glaring lack of science seems to be to try to match their natural environment in as many respects as possible.

Why would this be so? Seriously, unless you want to take the assinine position that someone tried recently that Ts need their native humidity because God put them there, they have been in many of their habitats as species far longer than those habitats were what they are today.

In other words, logically, the success of the slow breeding, slow evolving Ts is probably more because they thrive in a far wider range of temps and humidities than where they are found than that they are in any way dependent on conditions that are only a few 10,000 years old at the most.

 

[Telson]

Good point...

Sorry but I edited that last post as soon as I put it up and a couple responses came out before I finished and reposted it.

anyhow...

Perhaps I'm simply applying irrelivent info from the aquatics knowlege I've developed... A difference in water temp of a few degrees can make the difference between keeping a very expensive fish alive or not, as can matters of water chemistry variating by mere parts per million... I was under the same school of thought in regard to maintaining certain "harder to keep" species of tarantulas.

I'm not saying anyone here is wrong regarding importance of humidity, but being one of those who belives it matters IMHO, I'm simply looking for ways to control it without creating other problems related to doing to.

 

[Telson]

And ignore my typos please, I'm not going to edit when there's likely others already posting responses at this very moment.

 

[Code Monkey]

Re: Good point...

Originally posted by Telson
I'm not saying anyone here is wrong regarding importance of humidity, but being one of those who belives it matters IMHO, I'm simply looking for ways to control it without creating other problems related to doing to.

Well, in that light, there are really only two or three ways to effectively raise humidity.

You can keep the substrate moist. This is bad in many cases because it promotes the growth of fungi and mites.

You can restrict airflow to maximize the RH from moist substrate or large water dishes. This is bad because it promotes the growth of fungi and reduces air exchange.

You can raise the room humidity with the use of an area humidifier, swamp cooler, etc. This, in my opinion, is the only good way to increase humidity. I don't think it's necessary obviously, but it can't hurt and doesn't have the associated problems of the more commonly used methods.

 

[Kenny]

Getting humid.

Hi all.

Well,,I started out over 1 year ago with 2 Versicolors s'lings, one was really tiny, the other one was about 1 inch "big" and I was misting thier cages like once a day.

I also still have this fan running on low about 4 feet away from the cages and today I have one big versicolor and one smaller and both in adult colors.

My point is that I have done this "treatment" for all my T's, today 24 in total depending on where they come frome, i.e.,arboreal or so, but they all thrive due to that you look a little on their natural habitant and try to make a "copy".

 

[Telson]

assinine?

Originally posted by Code Monkey
Why would this be so? Seriously, unless you want to take the assinine position that someone tried recently that Ts need their native humidity because God put them there, they have been in many of their habitats as species far longer than those habitats were what they are today.

My reasons for thinking this are because of the published material on this hobby as well as info gleaned from other hobbyiest that I have gotten over the years, and from working in the pet trade and learning a lot about other creatures commonly kept. The sources of my information have been scientific, not religious. Maintaining conditions of their natural environment is the most sure way to keep anything alive, tarantulas or otherwise.

There is a reason that A.avic as a species lives where it does and does not survive in the wild elsewhere, be it temperature, humidity, or because "God didn't put 'em there";P I can't say, but I'd immagine that they (as a species) adapted as their envoronment changed over thousands of years, assuming they were in that range back then to start with. Adapting to what their natural environment is now compared to what it was a thousand years ago a a lot different than a single individual being plucked from the rainforst and dropped in a glass box on the other side of the world.

 

[arachnopunks]

We have an Iridopelma hirsuta which is just about scarce in the trade. We had no info on care and as far as we know there is none still. We had to wing it and found that she acclimated to the conditions we provided which did not included being overly concerned with humidity. As a matter of fact, we plain ignored it after a while (the humidity level that is). We would overflow the water dish a little when we expected a molt but that is probably more for our piece of mind. We try to discourage misting, a school of thought that we have abandoned due to the lack of an real effects to any of our T's. The layering system is the most we do and even then we don't always keep the enclosures humidity up. We have found that sometimes the lack of concern for such things made for a "happier" tarantula.