Venom effects on people of different heights.

[ragnew]

Hey guys, I did a search on this forum to see if this has been discussed yet, and I didn't find anything that really fit the bill. However, if it has been discussed, I apologize now. I've been wondering this for quite sometime, and kind of thought that this forum would be the best place to bring it up.

In doing the research that one does before obtaining any sort of venomous animal one of the biggest things one looks up is going to be sting / bite reports and the lasting effects that both of these will have. When looking at the sting reports (regarding the very hottest of scorps) I noticed that the majority of fatal stings were those that involved Children, Elderly and generally unfit / sick individuals. Here's what I was wondering...

I'd think that I'd fit into the catagory of a pretty healthy person, I exercise on a pretty normal basis and I'm not over weight or anything like that. But the thing is this, I'm a pretty short person, I measure up to exactly 5'1, and I weigh right around 120 - 125 lbs. Do you think that the venom would have different reactions to someone that's my size as opposed to someone that would be the height of one of my best friends, he's about 6'4 or 6'5, and about 220 - 230 lbs.

I'd think that the venom would travel through my system faster, and end up in places that you really wouldn't want it to (heart) in a much faster amount of time. Also, children are quite a bit smaller then adults (well, that's a no brainer, but an example none the less), and deaths are present in incidents that involve children. Now do you think this is because they're still growing or would you be more apt to stating that it's because of the smaller (height/weight) status of growing kids?

I'd just like to get some ideas on this, as I've wondered about it for quite sometime now.

Thanks!

 

[EAD063]

Well part of it is that the adult, healthy body, is able to defend itself from foreign substance. So children and the elderly have to be looked at from that standpoint, children being less developed and the elderlies bodily defenses/functions are deteriorating. I am only speculating but I presume the brain may also be suspect seeings many types of venom produce electrical impulses. Again this is an organ which develops as a person ages and also deteriorates after a period of time.

Save this PDF
http://www.kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/195/98-189.PDF

and this
http://math.lanl.gov/~gchowell/publications/scorpion.pdf

 

[skinheaddave]

While there are many factors which affect the outcome of a scorpion sting, body size is going to be one of them. That being said, you are still quite a bit bigger than the children who make up the majority of the fatalities.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Thaedion]

...Do you think that the venom would have different reactions to someone that's my size as opposed to someone that would be the height of one of my best friends, he's about 6'4 or 6'5, and about 220 - 230 lbs.

I'd think that the venom would travel through my system faster, and end up in places that you really wouldn't want it to (heart) in a much faster amount of time....

I'd just like to get some ideas on this, as I've wondered about it for quite sometime now.

Thanks!

Hello

On the average it takes 23 seconds for blood to circulate through the body (so I've read). So height might give or take a few seconds (taller or shorter), but with a lethal dose I don't see how height can really affect that (given the fact you aren't a child or elderly person, but a 5' adult or a 6' adult). But depending on where the sting occurred would be a factor, was it directly in a vein or did the capillary pick it up. Blood travels at different speeds in all different types of vessels. Fastest in arteries, slower in arterioles, VERY slow in capillaries, then faster in venules, and faster again in veins.

Now I know that composition of the body will affect various drugs affect, ie how much lean mass and how much fat are on the body, and fat stores stuff. but I don't know how this relates to envenomation.

I just think the circulation factor would be a moot point. Just stay healthy, young and don't get stung.

Thaedion

 

[skinheaddave]

I believe it is muscle mass that has the greatest influence on the effects of envenomation. I'm not 100% sure on why, but I can guess that it is because muscle is well supplied with blood vessels, whereas fat is not. Thus, someone with more muscle mass should have more blood and thus it will have a diluting effect on the venom. There may very well be more to it.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[JSN]

I've always believed that it just depends on the person, everyones going to have different affects and reactions...I was stung by a C. exilicauda (not super hot I know) when i was 6 and probably weighed no more than 50 pounds?...2 hours later I was outside playing again...

 

[skinheaddave]

I've always believed that it just depends on the person

I'm sure different people have varying degrees of succeptability. There are also countless other factors related to the size, health and heredity of the scorpion, the amount of venom injected, location of the sting, depth of the sting, temperature of the environment, potentially altitude, weather etc., activity level of the person, physiological state of the person etc. etc. There is even going to be a psychological effect with regards to their perception of something like pain.

Still, body size -- particularily muscle mass -- is going to be a factor.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[pandinus]

i would think that your weight would be more important than height as far as venom goes.

 

[ragnew]

See, now this is the kind of forum I like, you ask a question and you get answers. Not to mention indepth answers to boot! Thanks much for all the info. Hehe, and just to clear the air, I don't have any intentions of going out and getting stung...

Thanks for the pdf's EAD, I've already saved them to my system, great info to have there as well.

Again, thanks for all the info folks, and I look forward to seeing what else is posted here.

 

[arrowhd]

i would think that your weight would be more important than height as far as venom goes.

I was thinking the same thing. Also, at least some of the fatalities are from an individuals allergic reactions to that specific venom. In those cases I wonder if height or weight would really mater?

 

[JSN]

I'm sure different people have varying degrees of succeptability. There are also countless other factors related to the size, health and heredity of the scorpion, the amount of venom injected, location of the sting, depth of the sting, temperature of the environment, potentially altitude, weather etc., activity level of the person, physiological state of the person etc. etc. There is even going to be a psychological effect with regards to their perception of something like pain.

Still, body size -- particularily muscle mass -- is going to be a factor.

Cheers,
Dave

as far as the temperature of the environment, altitude, weather, etc., do you know exactly how this would effect a person who's been stung?...

 

[Crotalus]

The venom is not only transported by the blood, but also by the lymphatic system

 

[skinheaddave]

as far as the temperature of the environment, altitude, weather, etc., do you know exactly how this would effect a person who's been stung?...

Not really, but I can guess. Temperature will affect blood circulation, particularily to the peripheral body parts. When you're hot, you have a lot of blood flowing through fingers and at the surface of the body to try to cool you off. Thus, potentially quicker transport.

Altitude will affect your oxygen intake. I don't know if that directly affects or is affected by any particular component -- but I'm thinking it can't be good.

As for weather, I know that at 80% humidity, you don't feel insect bites nearly as badly. (Un)fortunately, I've only ever been stung by a hotish scorpion under these circumstances, so I can't compare it to a sting in a dry environment.

As I said, this is only guesswork.

Cheers,
Dave