Using leaves and sticks from outside?

[Psilocybin]

Can I collect my own leaf litter and sticks to put into enclosures? If so how can I treat them or go about doing this, moneys abit tight and don't want to spend silly amounts on leaf litter and fake plants

 

[scooter1685]

Some types of wood are irritating to reptiles, like pine and cedar. I imagine they might also be a poor choice for Ts, but I don't know that for certain. Apart from that, I think the biggest risks would be insects, bacteria, etc. that could be on the items in question. Might be alright if you boil them for at least 5 minutes and let them dry completely before adding them. I'd probably strip the bark first, if possible. That's where most of the spores and such will be hiding. If you're baking them dry, be super careful. I've heard of a few people accidentally starting fires that way.

It's not ideal. Definitely safer to use items less likely to mold or harbor bacteria or other issues. Doesn't mean it can't be done safely, but most people here would likely advise against it for the sake of caution.

 

[Psilocybin]

I was thinking maybe cutting a little part of my artificial Xmas tree and putting it into my orchid mantis enclosure as I only have a peice of crappy Cork bark in there atm

 

[Sarkhan42]

I frequently use outside materials from areas I know for certain aren’t exposed to significant pesticide levels. That being said, I scrub the wood and I generally bake everything to kill anything nasty inside.

Definitely avoid cedars for sure, and if you’re going to use pine make sure it’s not fresh.

 

[cold blood]

Literally ALL fresh wood will be a beacon for mold in an enclosure.

To collect wood, you really need to understand what to look for and what to avoid....98% of what one would find in the woods just wont work out.

Wood holds moisture, moisture equals mold....its hard to even bake moisture out of fresh wood.

Driftwood from a freshwater area is what i have found to be the most reliable, and its basically all I use. All the great looking stuff i walk past every day in the woods gets ignored.

 

[Urzeitmensch]

Even if you know there should be no pesticides etc. in the area there is always the possibility of directly or indirectly harmful substances clinging to the wood. Spilled chemicals, poisoned bait, insecticides against certain pests, animal feces, fungi etc. I wouldn't trust that baking/cooking suffices here.

Different if it is your own garden or something similar where you have control over most environmental influences. Except cat piss. You can't control cat piss.

 

[Vanisher]

As said, they will go rotten. But they work in a dry cage. Is it dangerous for the tarantula or other invert. I'd say No! I have never heard that it would be harmful to a tarantula in any way. The only thing that could be harmful is if the wood have been exposed to poisons or pesticides, but the wood itself is not harmful. If one is not sure if pestesides is present i suggest not to use wood from outside in tarantula enclosures

 

[rumpelstilzz]

I was about to ask a quite similar question. From a tarantula husbandry book printed some time in the nineties (and full of outdated information), I seem to remember that they defined certain types of wood as unhealthy for the spider. But since I lent the book to someone who never gave it back, I'm unable to confirm or to recall which wood exactly were the forbidden ones. At the moment, I have a c.laeta with a (dis-leaved and baked) willow branch for a climb, but she never even set foot on it, so I wonder if the book was right and laeta knows. Either that or it is because she went into premolt just after I rehoused her and didn't want to climb in her clumsy days. If anyone knows more, I'd be happy to read.

Edit: bad english

 

[Vanisher]

I have hard to believe that any wood would be dangerous to a tarantula (if they dont mean that it has been exposed to pesticides?) From a toxic point of view an animal has to eat the wood fir it to be dangerous, and as we know, spiders are no vegetarian. I absolutly not buy this!

 

[spideyspinneret78]

I agree with what was said earlier, most wood tends to hold moisture and grows mold pretty easily. I'd also be concerned about possibly introducing pests like mites, or pesticide residue. For something thin like bark and leaves, you could probably put it in the oven to dry it out a little more and kill off any annoying little hitchhikers.

 

[Pauli]

Can I collect my own leaf litter and sticks to put into enclosures?

In my first enclosure, I used wood from my back yard. I boiled it to death and then baked it forever. And then I had a huge mold problem. I removed the wood and clean out moldy sub every few weeks and the mold keeps coming back. Spend the money or at least listen to others on this thread, it’s worth it to avoid the headache later.

 

[rumpelstilzz]

I can hardly imagine myself how a wood could harm a spider, and as I said, the book was very old and full of information that has definitively proven false in the meantime. I think I'll wait for laeta to molt (don't want to molest her until then), and should she refuse to climb it afterwards or any mould issues appear, I'll replace the branch. Better safe than sorry. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[KenD]

...spiders are no vegetarian. I absolutly not buy this!

Well, there's one spider that (kinda) is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagheera_kiplingi
Doesn't relate to this discussion at all, but thought it might interest people

 

[Vanisher]

You are maybe right, but there are no vegetarian tarantulas at least

 

[scooter1685]

So I don't want to link to this article about cedar and pine resins and their volatile aromatic compounds, because links are sort of taboo. I'll copy and paste the text of the article though. Be warned, it's a bit longer than most forum posts, but it's not too long. The article is copied and pasted directly from the ANAPSID site.

Again, most of my exotic animal experience relates to reptiles, and specifically boas. I'm not sure how this information applies to tarantulas, but I thought the article applied rather well to this discussion about potentially hazardous woods.

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Despite its widespread use in the pet trade and for a variety of pet animals, there remains some confusion over the use of cedar--and by extension, pine--as a substrate for animals, especially for prey animals and reptiles.

In the Winter 1994 issue of Wildlife Rehabilitation Today, the director of a bird conservation association stated the question succinctly: "Everyone just says they have 'heard' cedar is harmful, but no one can supply a source of this information, via a study or an authority."

Dr. Richard Evans, a veterinary pathologist who is also associated with the Orange County (CA) Department of Public Health, responded to this question by discussing laboratory findings and practical experience in the use of cedar shavings as has been found by study and anecdotal evidence involving rodents, cage birds and poultry.

Dr. Evans states that the extracts of cedar and other soft woods, such as pine, contain a number of aromatic (volatile) compounds including hydrocarbons, cedrene and cadrol. Naphthalene (the active ingredient in moth balls) is also a member but is a distinct compound.

These compounds are known irritants of skin, and cause not only irritation, but the degeneration and death of the cells in the respiratory tract. Once this destruction is set in motion, the animals' defensive barrier is eroded, enabling infection by various microorganisms and secondary microbial infections of the lungs. The medical literature notes increased rates of respiratory infections found in poultry which is raised with cedar shavings in the poultry house. Owners of caged birds have noted similar infection rates, particularly in poorly ventilated areas.

In addition to the skin irritation and respiratory tract damage, these compounds activate enzymes in the liver which results in abnormal metabolism of certain drugs, something especially critical for animals undergoing antibiotic therapy or surgery.

Dr. Evans notes that there is also some evidence to indicate that reproductive rates may be affected, and cancers promoted, through prolonged contact with these compounds. And, as with any other chemical or disease condition, the very young and very old are especially at risk.

Symptoms of irritation include clear to discolored fluids discharged from eyes and nose (which may be mistaken for a regular microbial respiratory infection), sneezing, coughing, constant blinking or other signs of light sensitivity, irregular breathing (dyspnea) and possibly regurgitation. In severe cases, the animal may fall unconscious with or without convulsions. Secondary bacterial, viral and fungal infections are all the more likely to attack once the cells of the respiratory system are damaged and destroyed.

While reptiles and amphibians are not birds or rodents, this is nonetheless important for herpetoculturists. If a rodent or bird skin becomes irritated through fur and feathers, think how much faster that may occur in a furless and featherless reptile or amphibian. Snakes and lizards frequently burrow into their shavings substrate, becoming completely covered by the material, breathing air through the layers of piled up shavings.

With the similarity of the symptoms of cedar toxicity to other common reptile ailments, it is easy to see why toxicity may go undiagnosed. We will never know just how much that housing breeders on cedar may have affected their reproductive success, nor how many recurrent respiratory infections are due to other than stress and too-cool temperatures conditions in the animal's enclosure. Birds and rodents are both warm-blooded animals and as such have consistently rapid metabolisms. Herps, on the other hand, have metabolisms that fluctuate depending upon their environmental temperature and mealtimes. Many herps that don't feel well will stay in the coolest part of their enclosure, thus slowing down their metabolism, and slowing the effects of any substance ingested or absorbed into their bodies.

You might want the rethink buying prey that has been raised or housed on cedar. Evaluate the health of every animal whom you have housed on cedar and pine (after you clean out the cedar and any residual oils in their enclosure). If you see pet stores housing rodents on cedar or pine, you may want to discuss this matter with them, requesting them to change and, if they fail to, purchase your prey and pet rodents elsewhere.
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If these volatile compounds have such dramatic and varied consequences for other animals, it is possible and seems likely to me that there will also be some impact on a number of invertebrates.