Unidentified Pterinochilus in TKG

Suidakkra

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I guess this would only pertain to those who have the 2009 Edition of The Tarantula Keepers Guide. (Only edition I own, so I do not know if it will be the same in the other editions)

I was wondering if anyone has any updated information on the Unidentified Pterinochilus posted in the TKG, 2009 Revised Edition, pg 188.

That is one beautiful tarantula to me, and would love to learn more if possible about it, if it has been identified,etc... any thoughts/information is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
 

Vespula

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Oooh. I've wondered about this, as well. That is one beautiful Pterinochilus.
 

Suidakkra

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Oooh. I've wondered about this, as well. That is one beautiful Pterinochilus.
I agree, I believe its safe to say that it either remains unidentified, or the majority do not have that edition of the TKG on them.

I would love to scan and show that picture, but I will not use the Schultz' work without permission, due to great respect of the authors.

But it is definitely a beautiful specimen, and by searching for Pterinochilus in every search engine, forum pictures, etc, it has not showed up as being in a collection. Of course, there are millions of pictures and dozens of forums to be searched through still. :eek:
 

Suidakkra

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looks more like an Augacephalus sp. to me..
Awesome, thanks Dan. I searched using your suggestion, and low and behold, there is a tarantula forum, in which I believe is Polish , where a keeper shows a rather similiar species in his care. Im actually not as impressed as I first was with the TKG picture, where it shows more of a dark blue hue, where as these pictures are showing a black hue in the carapace markings. Could of been just the lighting during the initial picture taking. Even so it still is a striking species.

http://www.terrarium.com.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=475460

I see where the author of that thread is stating that it's Augacephalus sp.

Doing some more digging, thanks again. :)

http://www.baboonspiders.de/html_en/genera_augacephalus.html


Edit: Looks like the Augacephalus are becoming rare in captivity as they are a South African species, and South Africa has extremely zero tolerance policy on exporting any animal from its area. They were moved from Pterinochilus in 2002 by Richard C. Gallon.
 
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NikiP

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Check out TiogaWhiteTiger's picture thread. There's a tarantula in the thread that looks a lot like the one in that link, he has it listed as Augacephalus breyeri. Don't know if it's the same thing, or even in the US (at least, I don't think TWT is in the US), but it looks close.
 

Suidakkra

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Check out TiogaWhiteTiger's picture thread. There's a tarantula in the thread that looks a lot like the one in that link, he has it listed as Augacephalus breyeri. Don't know if it's the same thing, or even in the US (at least, I don't think TWT is in the US), but it looks close.
Thanks Niki, looks like Augacephalus are rather rare in the states, and becoming even rarer in Europe, that definitely looks like the T in question.


And I believe TiogaWhiteTiger may be from Poland (judging by the coins he used to compare size in his pics). Thanks for pointing me to TWT's pics by the way, he has some amazing pictures, wow. :clap:
 

Big B

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I have wanted one ever since I saw the picture in the tkg.:drool:
 

Suidakkra

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I have wanted one ever since I saw the picture in the tkg.:drool:
Definitely a "must have" but at the moment seems to be a "cant get" specimen. Unless someone in the states have bred them, so far I have not seen any Augacephalus being offered. And according to the information I found, they are completely banned from exportation from South Africa.
 

Big B

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The pics I have seen on google look like an obt or P. lugardi, not nearly as attractive as the picture in TKG.
 

gunslinger

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The spider in the photo looks to me like P. nigrofulvus, not that I can ID this genera but from a photo here----

Baboon and Trapdoor Spiders of Southern Africa: An Identification Manual.
By A.S. Dippenaar-Schoeman

PG 115, photo
 
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Ceratogyrus

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Trust me, A.junodi looks much better in real life that in pictures. :)
Will hopefully manage to find a male this year to give my 2 ladies a shot. Think they are so rare overseas because the small males are not often found. Most illegal imports out of our country are adult females, because bigger seems better to most people. :)
 

Suidakkra

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The spider in the photo looks to me like P. nigrofulvus, not that I can ID this genera but from a photo here----

Baboon and Trapdoor Spiders of Southern Africa: An Identification Manual.
By A.S. Dippenaar-Schoeman

PG 115, photo
According to revisions by Dr. John Hewitt, P.nigrofulvus was moved to Idiothele 1919. And Richard C. Gallon, re-established the genus in 2002.

http://www.baboonspiders.de/html_en/...idiothele.html

On searches the Idiothele does resemble the spider in question by the visual markings on the carapace, but the spider itself differs from Pterinochilus as stated in the link provided above.

The genus Augacephalus, also differs from Pterinochilus but shares resemblance in markings on the carapace.

http://www.baboonspiders.de/html_en/genera_augacephalus.html
 

gunslinger

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Sorry about the illegal link there, I just googled the pub and it came up on that link...........didnt see where it was from or who posted it........I will exercise more caution in the future.

On a different note, the South African pub listed above was also 2002 same year as the Gallon revision. Where P nigrofulvus / Idiothele nigrofulva / Augecephalus sp. is currently placed was not really what I was getting to. Until any sort of DNA work is done, the morphological guesswork is imprecise at best, given they are closely related taxa. Whatever genus it may currently be in or end up in, all I was saying is that the photo in the TKG and the above linked polish? site, and the South African pub all look similar to me, and the only one with an ID linked to it specifically by a scientist was the South African pub.

I cant seem to find a Idiothele nigrofulva photo anywhere to compare it to, though I have not looked hard as of yet.
 

Suidakkra

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On a different note, the South African pub listed above was also 2002 same year as the Gallon revision. Where P nigrofulvus / Idiothele nigrofulva / Augecephalus sp. is currently placed was not really what I was getting to. Until any sort of DNA work is done, the morphological guesswork is imprecise at best, given they are closely related taxa. Whatever genus it may currently be in or end up in, all I was saying is that the photo in the TKG and the above linked polish? site, and the South African pub all look similar to me, and the only one with an ID linked to it specifically by a scientist was the South African pub.

I cant seem to find a Idiothele nigrofulva photo anywhere to compare it to, though I have not looked hard as of yet.
I agree totally. I was showing how confusing that particular genera seems to be. It's been reclassified on several occasions, and with only minute differences between each species, its rather hard to distinguish one from the other. DNA mapping would be a blessing for classification and proper identification of all the genera, but it seems no one wants to step forward in the -ology world. Of course, that would be a rather large undertaking.

Rick West had a few pictures of Idiothele nigrofulva , and other species.It shows the resemblance between the Idiothele/Pterinochilus/Augecephalus genera.

I found a link to one of those pictures, but I respect the copyright of the owners. But I am sure a quick search via Bing or Google will suffice.
 

Zoltan

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I agree totally. I was showing how confusing that particular genera seems to be.
Which genus/genera? (Genus is the singular, genera is the plural.)

Augacephalus, Idiothele and Pterinochilus are easily and reliably distinguished from each other.

Idiothele differs from all other genera of the Harpactirinae subfamily except Harpactirella by the sub-conical shape of the apical segment of the posterior spinneret. It's also easily distinguishable from Harpactirella by the presence of retrolateral cheliceral scopula. :cool:

Augacephalus differs from Pterinochilus in e.g. having robust pedipalps and legs I & II, and by the ventral darkening on legs I & II.

And we're not even getting to the real fun stuff such as spermathecae, palpal bulbs and tibial apophyses... the above mentioned characters are easily identifiable by anyone, especially on exuviae.
 
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Suidakkra

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Which genus/genera? (Genus is the singular, genera is the plural.)

Augacephalus, Idiothele and Pterinochilus are easily and reliably distinguished from each other.

Idiothele differs from all other genera of the Harpactirinae subfamily except Harpactirella by the sub-conical shape of the apical segment of the posterior spinneret. It's also easily distinguishable from Harpactirella by the presence of retrolateral cheliceral scopula. :cool:

Augacephalus differs from Pterinochilus in e.g. having robust pedipalps and legs I & II, and by the ventral darkening on legs I & II.

And we're not even getting to the real fun stuff such as spermathecae, palpal bulbs and tibial apophyse... the above mentioned characters are easily identifiable by anyone, especially on exuviae.
Thank you Zoltan for commenting. Mainly was focusing on the difference between Augacephalus and Pterinochilus, but it then escalated to the Idiothele as well. Other than what you listed and the sub-abdominal ban on the Augacephalus, was trying to understand/determine what separated them visually.

Also, are there any difference on the markings on the carapace between Augacephalus and Idiothele? I have read that the Augacephalus have a dark mask around the ocular tubercle, as well as the darker sun ray pattern on their carapace (which is visibly shown in the TKG picture).

Trying to learn more as I go. Not actually having the Augacephalus specimen really hinders my further learning, as I have not seen a specimen available here in the states as of yet. Only pictures from various sites via the Internet to go by.

Again, thanks Zoltan.
 

Tie Black

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The photograph of the spider in the book you mentioned is an Augacephalus breyeri.

Thank you Zoltan for commenting. Mainly was focusing on the difference between Augacephalus and Pterinochilus, but it then escalated to the Idiothele as well. Other than what you listed and the sub-abdominal band on the Augacephalus, was trying to understand/determine what separated them visually.
Augacephalus breyeri does not have a sub-abdominal band.
Augacephalus spp. are visually very striking animals, whereas Idiothele spp. are not nearly as colourful.

Also, are there any difference on the markings on the carapace between Augacephalus and Idiothele? I have read that the Augacephalus have a dark mask around the ocular tubercle, as well as the darker sun ray pattern on their carapace (which is visibly shown in the TKG picture).
The markings on the carapace of Idiothele spp. and Augacephalus spp. are virtually identical, and members of both genera have a dark mask around the ocular tubercle.
However, the shape of the carapace of Idiothele nigrofulva is symmetrically round and flat, while Augacephalus have an elongated, slightly stepped profile to the carapace.

Here are some photos:

Augacephalus breyeri:



Augacephalus junodi(with male pictured for size comparisson):



Idiothele nigrofulva:

 
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