Trinidad chevron advice

[CarrotsBiteBack]

Hi everyone,

This beautiful specimen is known in my collection as "Norman Osborne - THE Hateful green ball of Bastardness!" as it is one extremely aggressive T. It was very aggressive when I brought it a month ago I had brilliant fun trying to rehouse it from its tiny enclosure to what it's in now. I have however been graced today with Norman's beauty (SO honoured!) it normally hides away from the world in its cork tubes, first time its ever had a hide apparently.
Couple of questions for the more experienced / knowledgeable T keepers here.
1. I know this species is known to be semi aggressive but this one could give an OBT a run for its money. Is this usual behaviour or down to mistreatment from the previous owner? I am aware T's are not ment to have emotions etc but ingrained behaviour?
2. I do not and will not ever handle my T's - unless absolutely essential and I've not had to yet. However, I do need to get in there and provide Norman with water, I am only spraying edges at the moment, I feel this is not adequate. Norman is so aggressive it'll attack anything that moves - my poor tweezers! Any ideas on how to distract it so there's no potential for violence towards me - food for example.
3. I am under the thought process that Norman is a female as it has obvious red/orange chevrons on the ends of its legs. Obviously Norman is not fully mature but am I right? Norman is currently approximately 4-5cm diagonal leg size.
4. Never bred a T before, not thinking of it with Norman, but for future reference what are breeders thoughts on breeding from aggressive T's? Is it a no go area to produce more docile ones or a case of breeding aggressive ones to get more "desirable" aggressive species?

I guess question 4 links to question 1 in a way. I may have just hit unlucky jackpot with Norman but they aren't going anywhere, this is an epic battle I will endure - and probably loose - but I respect Norman which is why they are staying put with me.

Thanks everyone for enduring my post!
Carrots

 

[pongdict]

4. Never bred a T before, not thinking of it with Norman, but for future reference what are breeders thoughts on breeding from aggressive T's? Is it a no go area to produce more docile ones or a case of breeding aggressive ones to get more "desirable" aggressive species?

I wonder about number 4. as well, I know for the rarer species MMs are kind of hard to come by, so it will be hard to do. But for more common and/or faster growing ones, I wonder if breeders are doing this? Like selectively breeding for behavior? or size? I imagine a very docile curly hair, or larger T. blondis/stirmis. Or even larger than normal N inceis. anyone more knowledgeable about this care to comment?

1.I don't know about ingrained behavior. Maybe that one is just aggressive. Some Ts just have attitude problems even for some docile species.
2 Yes food. Also you can get a wash bottle, you can even fill water dish from a vent hole with it. So easy to direct and control the water stream with it.
3. I think P. cambridgei are only sexually dimorphic when the males mature.

 

[AmbushArachnids]

This species is like what you describe. However.. They are defensive and will readily take down food. This is simply a feeding response. You are being the aggressor by entering the cage to do maintenance. You’re a giant threatening it.

There’s is no specific breeding going on in the hobby. Just normal tarantulas of the same species that appear healthy and don’t have any defects. Larger or smaller males do not matter. Your not going to produce larger specimens in one genetic step or even 10 generations. Males from the same sac will mature at different sizes or molt numbers for no apparent reason other than to have more males available over time.

Tarantulas remain relatively unchanged for an extremely long time. Millions of years. The likelihood you could pronounce specific traits in even 2 lifetimes of breeding is zero.

Tarantulas respond to stimuli. They don’t change behavior based upon treatment over time. They have zero concept of abuse or an adaption to it.

I’ve bred this species many times and they are fairly tolerant to cohabitate. Although I don’t see the point doing that anymore because they will breed right on contact and the male can be used for the future.

As far as misting goes. Stop that. Over flow the water dish once the substrate dries out. I keep my water dishes elevated when keeping them in 1 gallon jars. It’s less maintenance and they aren’t likely to use it as a bolus disposal. The dish is also easy to grab with tongs.

Males and females are identical until males mature.

 

[CarrotsBiteBack]

Thank you both for replying.

Pongdict, I wondered that about breeding too but felt I was babbling to much, seems we were wrong. I feel nicely educated now, haha. The vent holes are not big enough for the pipette to go through, despite the hole size in the photo. I have already thought of that idea. I am concerned about using my longer metal tweezers with them as they are a massive biter. AmbushArachind also confirmed sexual dimorphic maturity so you were right. Again, thank you for your help.

AmbushArachnid, thank you for the education. I have never bred a T and I am not entirely sure that I want to either but I was not sure about traits as such hence questioning. Regarding myself being the big threat, I totally get that which is why I was hoping for something to distract Norman. I do not want them to feel threatened and the need to aggressively attack anything that moves. I desperately want a water dish in their enclosure, as like I said misting is not enough - as confirmed. I can't get there without Norman trying to bite everything, its not like they rear and threaten they just burst into attack mode. Brilliant to watch when feeding as its the most aggressive eater I own, not so good when husbandry is involved. Actually nice to know that this is normal behaviour, I certainly would not class them as "semi-aggressive" but along the lines of "aggressive-very aggressive" given their behaviour. Is it worth catching them in a catcher container so that I can add a dish in the bottom or just risk an empty one with my longer tweezers - these are metal though not bamboo - then filling from the top of the enclosure? I want the least amount of aggravation/stress caused to Norman. Tonight is feeding night so I will put any plan into action tonight. Thanks for confirming the sexual dimorphic maturity, I could not find anything online about it other than males appear more grey and lack the chevrons, could also be my limited research scope as I am time limited. I guess it is back to the old waiting for a molt game, I might be able to find out next year, maybe, haha. Again, thank you for your help.

 

[AmbushArachnids]

Aggressive is not the correct term. It’s defending its ground. Tarantulas are not aggressive. If someone comes to your home and kicks the door off the hinges and you shoot them dead it’s called self defense in court. As it should be!

I’ve also noted a solution to place a water dish up high so you won’t have reach in close to the T each time to remove it. I use hot glue and magnets to attach small deli cups to the side.

If this species feels like too much for your nerves I recommend finding someone who would take it off your hands that has more experience with fast arboreals.

 

[CarrotsBiteBack]

Aggressive is not the correct term. It’s defending its ground. Tarantulas are not aggressive. If someone comes to your home and kicks the door off the hinges and you shoot them dead it’s called self defense in court. As it should be!

Valid point, I agree.

I’ve also noted a solution to place a water dish up high so you won’t have reach in close to the T each time to remove it. I use hot glue and magnets to attach small deli cups to the side.

Ah, I thought about this but I have read this is not always appropriate for bigger T's due to adhesive materials not being strong enough to hold the T's weight, potentially causing issues. Norman is currently 4-5in not cm as previously said, that is my mistake. I think the way around this is making a bung hole in the lid and getting a dish in the bottom and fill that way as long as they do not flick water or Bolas in the dish. Another idea and perhaps more appropriate is to have a top opening plastic vial - similar to the covid vials but bigger and round bottomed, with a few holes that maintain a water level. Hard to explain the design without being able to demonstrate it. Your deli cup solution I will steal for my sling/smaller juveniles as some of them flick substrate into their dishes.

If this species feels like too much for your nerves I recommend finding someone who would take it off your hands that has more experience with fast arboreals.

I do not feel like they are to much for me, I just do not want to be an irresponsible keeper. I will admit to not knowing enough about this species in particular prior to purchase, I knew of them and minor pieces. When I brought this one it was not originally one I intended to buy, I intended to only buy two maybe three tarantulas that are considered docile or slow. I could not leave this one there in the conditions it was then in. I have read a lot of information online about this species and have read the "care sheets" but nothing arms you like actually experiencing what they are like. It is like becoming a further education student or even a parent, you know what to expect but the experience of actually living it is completely unique and individual. We all have to start somewhere and I feel asking specific questions to people like yourself is arming me with more personalised knowledge.

My screen words might seem (passive) aggressive but that is not intended, it's hard to covey my voice over a screen.

 

[Westicles]

I've been fortunate with mine. She's more skittish than anything. I've never had any issues with refilling the water dish that's on the substrate. As with any animal, it just depends on the individual.

 

[birdonfire]

More cover may reduce defensiveness.

 

[Westicles]

More cover may reduce defensiveness.

Very true!

 

[CarrotsBiteBack]

I've been fortunate with mine. She's more skittish than anything. I've never had any issues with refilling the water dish that's on the substrate. As with any animal, it just depends on the individual.

This was the kind of behaviour I expected (use that loosely) and if stupidity from human should happen defensive attitude kicks in - as would be expected. I totally agree with the individual and behaviour. My friend has a Chilean rose who is so docile you need to practically move her out the way for water changes, yet my partner worked in a clients house also had a Chilean who was extremely aggressive. Think that was more down to the guy getting in its light and creating shadow so it would always rear at him.

More cover may reduce defensiveness.

Norman has a cork tall wood bark tunnel (mainly hides in this) they have dirt curtained the top (no idea how as that is some feat!) and partially over the bottom entrance, a rounded cork wood section and then a smaller cork wood section- still big enough to hide beneath and a green plant. Suppose it couldn't hurt to add more in there if it helps! Awesome suggestion thanks.

 

[viper69]

Hi everyone,

This beautiful specimen is known in my collection as "Norman Osborne - THE Hateful green ball of Bastardness!" as it is one extremely aggressive T. It was very aggressive when I brought it a month ago I had brilliant fun trying to rehouse it from its tiny enclosure to what it's in now. I have however been graced today with Norman's beauty (SO honoured!) it normally hides away from the world in its cork tubes, first time its ever had a hide apparently.
Couple of questions for the more experienced / knowledgeable T keepers here.
1. I know this species is known to be semi aggressive but this one could give an OBT a run for its money. Is this usual behaviour or down to mistreatment from the previous owner? I am aware T's are not ment to have emotions etc but ingrained behaviour?
2. I do not and will not ever handle my T's - unless absolutely essential and I've not had to yet. However, I do need to get in there and provide Norman with water, I am only spraying edges at the moment, I feel this is not adequate. Norman is so aggressive it'll attack anything that moves - my poor tweezers! Any ideas on how to distract it so there's no potential for violence towards me - food for example.
3. I am under the thought process that Norman is a female as it has obvious red/orange chevrons on the ends of its legs. Obviously Norman is not fully mature but am I right? Norman is currently approximately 4-5cm diagonal leg size.
4. Never bred a T before, not thinking of it with Norman, but for future reference what are breeders thoughts on breeding from aggressive T's? Is it a no go area to produce more docile ones or a case of breeding aggressive ones to get more "desirable" aggressive species?

I guess question 4 links to question 1 in a way. I may have just hit unlucky jackpot with Norman but they aren't going anywhere, this is an epic battle I will endure - and probably loose - but I respect Norman which is why they are staying put with me.

Thanks everyone for enduring my post!
Carrots

1. Ts are not aggressive, they are defensive. Man is aggressive- big difference in those words. Specimens are all different, just like humans. I fail to understand why people don't draw analogies with other animals, such as humans to Ts.

2. Spraying is not so helpful, but adding droplets of water with a dropper is better IME, esp pooled in webbing

3. I just drop food in regardless of Ts disposition

4. I can tell you many breeders don't take that into consideration

 

[spideyspinneret78]

1) Some specimens are just a little more "temperamental" or defensive. My AF is very food motivated and defensive. I wouldn't put it past her to bite if she felt threatened. However, this behavior almost completely stopped when I gave her a larger enclosure with a lot of fake plants and cork bark hiding places. They tend to become defensive if they feel cornered or are defending their territory.
2) Do maintenance with long tongs and a turkey baster for refilling water. Another thing that might help is if you feed Norman a large prey item immediately beforehand so that way it's fixated on eating and will be more distracted as you're doing maintenance. I gave my female a large cricket and waited until she caught it before I removed her infertile egg sac. She was so distracted by the food that she didn't even notice me taking away the sac.
3) Males and females of this species look very similar until the male is mature. You can post images for ventral sexing or try to snag an intact molt to tell for sure.
4) Temperament doesn't play much of a role in breeding tarantulas. What does play a role is choosing specimens that are robust, healthy, and preferably not from the same egg sac.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

Hi everyone,

This beautiful specimen is known in my collection as "Norman Osborne - THE Hateful green ball of Bastardness!" as it is one extremely aggressive T. It was very aggressive when I brought it a month ago I had brilliant fun trying to rehouse it from its tiny enclosure to what it's in now. I have however been graced today with Norman's beauty (SO honoured!) it normally hides away from the world in its cork tubes, first time its ever had a hide apparently.
Couple of questions for the more experienced / knowledgeable T keepers here.
1. I know this species is known to be semi aggressive but this one could give an OBT a run for its money. Is this usual behaviour or down to mistreatment from the previous owner? I am aware T's are not ment to have emotions etc but ingrained behaviour?
2. I do not and will not ever handle my T's - unless absolutely essential and I've not had to yet. However, I do need to get in there and provide Norman with water, I am only spraying edges at the moment, I feel this is not adequate. Norman is so aggressive it'll attack anything that moves - my poor tweezers! Any ideas on how to distract it so there's no potential for violence towards me - food for example.
3. I am under the thought process that Norman is a female as it has obvious red/orange chevrons on the ends of its legs. Obviously Norman is not fully mature but am I right? Norman is currently approximately 4-5cm diagonal leg size.
4. Never bred a T before, not thinking of it with Norman, but for future reference what are breeders thoughts on breeding from aggressive T's? Is it a no go area to produce more docile ones or a case of breeding aggressive ones to get more "desirable" aggressive species?

I guess question 4 links to question 1 in a way. I may have just hit unlucky jackpot with Norman but they aren't going anywhere, this is an epic battle I will endure - and probably loose - but I respect Norman which is why they are staying put with me.

Thanks everyone for enduring my post!
Carrots

Can you take a photo of the entire enclosure and from all sides?

It's possible that it doesn't have a proper setup especially for retreating to hide to feel safe when threaten.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

1. I know this species is known to be semi aggressive but this one could give an OBT a run for its money. Is this usual behaviour or down to mistreatment from the previous owner?

Individual temperaments may vary and can change at any time (even from moult to moult), I have a Brachypelma hamorii that'd make an OBT crap itself and run for the hills.

I am under the thought process that Norman is a female as it has obvious red/orange chevrons on the ends of its legs. Obviously Norman is not fully mature but am I right? Norman is currently approximately 4-5cm diagonal leg size.

Nope, males and females are practically identical until the males mature (as is the case with the vast majority of sexually dimorphic species, only a few species like L. nigerrimum exhibit sexual dimorphism prior to maturing), the only ways to sex them accurately are ventrally or with a moult.