Too rare to handle?

Chris_Skeleton

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
1,310
... ... ...

There are three other people living with him that can and did confirm what he said on 'her' age. Do I have to talk to the OB to believe them? It's a friend of his. So you're saying unless I talk to the OB, who is his friend, I am to just assume they are all lying? I like to have a little faith in people. I'm not going to arrogantly assume they are lying when a) they have no reason to and b) the OB is his friend. Not just some random person he got it from.

I don't know why people on here are so defensive about something like this. Or the other 'handling issue'. Something I have learned in life: you can't always be right. But you don't go around practically calling people you don't know liars--especially when what they've said is perfectly plausible.
I wasn't implying that anyone was lying. I was just saying if you got it from a breeders friend and you never talk to the breeder, then you might not get correct info. He couldve forgot things, and then remembered something that wasn't even what he was told in the first place. I'm saying you should talk to the breeder, just in case there was any error on his friends part.
 

Scorpionking20

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
158
LOUD NOISES! Just thought I'd add in, with a little Anchorman style, on this crazy thread!
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
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Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,533
The most ignorant of them all is not the one who doesnt know, but the one who doesnt want to learn.
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
@briar: if you only want to make snide remarks, please save it for elsewhere. I read and write a lot and so I'm pretty descriptive.

@Fran: I have only disagreed with TWO things. One is regarding handling and it was agreed it is opinion. Second was when someone said they doubted the T who is 3.5" is 3 years old. I read users stating their G. rosea T was 3" at two. Riley was power feeding her--even overfeeding, I daresay. It is plausible. I have learned a lot already. And I don't push my opinions on others while doing it.

@Chris: I have sent off an email to Riley requesting the OB's contact information. Maybe he'll even have some more Ts I can purchase.

@Rowdy: The only one who handles her will be me. And very rarely my guy who is terrified of Ts and I want to accept them so I can get more. But I will definitely do some lurking. I don't pick up my T daily. Nor do I have people who will be over a ton and if they are over, they won't be handling her. They don't like Ts or spiders. That won't be changing any time soon since they are VERY arachnophobic. As in the main one who comes over screamed and started crying when a little spider was spotted on her leg and then was having a fit after it was removed by me. She climbs up the side of her tank and out and rather than letting her on the floor with cats and a dog around I just let her climb on me.

Again: I have not 'dismissed' anything the more experienced users have said.I just am entitled to my opinion on handling and don't agree with anyone telling me they 'don't believe she's three' when her size is right...even though I am going to wait on a reply about the OB.
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
Yeah, I was told that and certainly waiting to see before ruling that one out! I'll be somewhat disappointed if that's the case, since I really wanted a T who would live longer. But at the same time I can always purchase a female from Tarantula Canada, for only $20 or so dollars including shipping. He had amazing reviews and if this G. rosea turns out to be a male, I will request a female of both another G. rosea and a female B. vagans. :)

A query about slings: I'm going to guess that it is not possible to tell the gender of slings until they get older and molt? I am nervous around teeny tiny spiders because I would be terrified of hurting one accidentally. But I have been reading a lot about how rewarding it is to watch them grow! And they are certainly not expensive for many of the Brachys or the rosea. So I'm debating!
 

briarpatch10

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
67
@briar: if you only want to make snide remarks, please save it for elsewhere. I read and write a lot and so I'm pretty descriptive.

@Fran: I have only disagreed with TWO things. One is regarding handling and it was agreed it is opinion. Second was when someone said they doubted the T who is 3.5" is 3 years old. I read users stating their G. rosea T was 3" at two. Riley was power feeding her--even overfeeding, I daresay. It is plausible. I have learned a lot already. And I don't push my opinions on others while doing it.

@Chris: I have sent off an email to Riley requesting the OB's contact information. Maybe he'll even have some more Ts I can purchase.

@Rowdy: The only one who handles her will be me. And very rarely my guy who is terrified of Ts and I want to accept them so I can get more. But I will definitely do some lurking. I don't pick up my T daily. Nor do I have people who will be over a ton and if they are over, they won't be handling her. They don't like Ts or spiders. That won't be changing any time soon since they are VERY arachnophobic. As in the main one who comes over screamed and started crying when a little spider was spotted on her leg and then was having a fit after it was removed by me. She climbs up the side of her tank and out and rather than letting her on the floor with cats and a dog around I just let her climb on me.

Again: I have not 'dismissed' anything the more experienced users have said.I just am entitled to my opinion on handling and don't agree with anyone telling me they 'don't believe she's three' when her size is right...even though I am going to wait on a reply about the OB.
If you feel that a remark was directed at you then maybe you have a guilty conscience....or maybe you are just longwinded. Dude just ask questions, get answers and stop arguing with people that know more than you do and your friends friend two cities over.
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
@briar: I am kind of long winded...in a way. I write longer posts and not everyone likes those. But I apologize if that wasn't directed at me.

But can you guys stop using the word 'arguing'? I'm not arguing with anyone. Plus it's only been over two matters and now I'm even going so far as to try and contact the OB. So not arguing. Just used to reptile forums where everyone is trying to shove their opinions on you or tell you you know nothing just because you're new and aren't allowed to debate over anything...

In either case: subject closed. Handling is my choice and opinion is it's okay. And I've emailed to get the contact info of the OB. No one can say I'm 'arguing' anymore--even if I wasn't to begin with.
 

Falk

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
679
Yeah, I was told that and certainly waiting to see before ruling that one out! I'll be somewhat disappointed if that's the case, since I really wanted a T who would live longer. But at the same time I can always purchase a female from Tarantula Canada, for only $20 or so dollars including shipping. He had amazing reviews and if this G. rosea turns out to be a male, I will request a female of both another G. rosea and a female B. vagans. :)

A query about slings: I'm going to guess that it is not possible to tell the gender of slings until they get older and molt? I am nervous around teeny tiny spiders because I would be terrified of hurting one accidentally. But I have been reading a lot about how rewarding it is to watch them grow! And they are certainly not expensive for many of the Brachys or the rosea. So I'm debating!
Stop handling them and you have nothing to worry about. Handling = stress = bad health = shorter life. A theraphosid will never ever benefit anything from being handled.
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
I don't plan to handle the slings unless I absolutely have to. I will not hold any Ts save the Brachys and G. rosea. But again: please read before you post. I will only state this once more.

There is NO proof handling causes stress, shorter life or death. Even if the T doesn't benefit from it it doesn't do any of the aforementioned. It doesn't benefit it to be in caged or ogled at either. Same with birds and many other species humankind has captured for its own enjoyment. But you do it for your enjoyment. I enjoy very occasional handling. And I'm careful and know all the pros and cons (ie. what can happen if you drop it). Everyone has their own opinion. Stop trying to make me agree with yours--that goes for everyone who is of that opinion. Unless you have proof.

I did not mean I was worried about what happens if I handle it and hurt it. I meant putting water or anything in there, shifting its things or having to move it for any reason whatsoever minus handling which I won't be doing until it is bigger, and probably for the sling types I am thinking of getting never at all unless necessary.
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,533
I don't plan to handle the slings unless I absolutely have to. I will not hold any Ts save the Brachys and G. rosea. But again: please read before you post. I will only state this once more.

There is NO proof handling causes stress, shorter life or death. Even if the T doesn't benefit from it it doesn't do any of the aforementioned. It doesn't benefit it to be in caged or ogled at either. Same with birds and many other species humankind has captured for its own enjoyment. But you do it for your enjoyment. I enjoy very occasional handling. And I'm careful and know all the pros and cons (ie. what can happen if you drop it). Everyone has their own opinion. Stop trying to make me agree with yours--that goes for everyone who is of that opinion. Unless you have proof.

I did not mean I was worried about what happens if I handle it and hurt it. I meant putting water or anything in there, shifting its things or having to move it for any reason whatsoever minus handling which I won't be doing until it is bigger, and probably for the sling types I am thinking of getting never at all unless necessary.
Pick up a biology book and stop showing such ignorance.

There is solid scientific proof that a wild animal in general, under stress, is an animal that will live shorter.

One thing is to "cage" them, another to keep bothering them with unnecessary extra stress. To compare the both is a nonsense.

Eating sugar in excess is detrimental for you, yet you might eat it anyway...but not because of it you are just gonna eat 3 pounds every day. What the heck, right?

If you want to come around the boards, express your opinions and not take any other recommendation then theres no point posting.
do whatever the heck you want with your T's, but you have a lot to learn here, wether you like it or not. A lot.
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
Fran, it's not ignorance. I have followed to the letter every single bit of advice other more experienced members have given me. And when I ask a question? I follow the advice given. I have also seen equally experienced members who occasionally handle their Ts depending on docility of the species. I may have a lot to learn but again, I don't go pushing others around to do things my way. I took biology. And you just stated it yourself: a wild animal UNDER STRESS. That is the main point. There is NO PROOF it stresses the T out. No proof at all. No posturing. No threat displays of any kind. No change in feeding or molting. No deaths. No hair kicking and it is climbing right up the side of the tank onto my hand to explore. No, not because it 'likes me' I don't even think its AWARE it is BEING handled. I don't even have to prod it to go onto me since the first day it just does it. So you are being equally ignorant. Tarantulas will never be tamed but the ARE domesticated. Any animal that has become domesticated (and I am only getting CB from breeders!) is an animal that is NOT in the wild any longer. The same argument can be applied to reptiles. Only there is PROOF about certain species who become unhealthy, show SIGNS of stress, and die earlier with handling.

I don't appreciate you treating me like I have no clue what I am saying, because I thought about it, compared what equally knowledgeable people on this site have said, and made my decision. It's not your place to call me ignorant since in every other regard I have followed what others have said but this one. Drop it and stop trying to control what I do in this regard. If you have any other advice of course I will defer to you. But not in something that leaves it up to the person what to do because there is no solid proof. It's my choice, you are right. So stop trying to push it. I'm not going to waste time debating this any longer. Further posts to this effect will be ignored since I didn't come here to get into heated debates about opinions. Opinions are just that: opinions.
 

Falk

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
679
RAINE: Really do you think handling wont cause stress? And besides that you think stress is harmless? Come on, humans can shorten their lives with to much stress, same with animals. And how do you know that there is no proof?

How long have you been in this hobby if i may ask?
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
@Falk: yes, I really think handling of the docile species that are not defensive and do not try to attack you is not stressful to them. I think if you were to disturb them ALL the time then it might, like with reptiles, cause stress. I mean several times a day or disturbing them when they are in a burrow or hide or doing something that doesn't involve them climbing out of the tank onto you. Without prodding. So for certain species, yes. Others, no.

If I had reason to believe I was stressing out my rosea by allowing her to climb on me I would stop. Falk, does it MATTER how long I've been in the hobby? Is that why you guys are all getting ticked off with me? If you have a problem with me, go pick on all the other experienced members here who do the same. How do I know there is no proof? Because for all that you are saying it stresses my T out you don't have a single bit of solid proof to show me. Just your opinion of the matter.

The example of sugar? If I eat too much sugar I get SICK. I throw up, likely. I feel ill. I get fat. I could develop diabetes. Poor example.

Again, people in this hobby that agree handling occasionally causes no stress that ARE in it for a long time--you hold their opinion higher than mine when it is the same just because of that? I keep seeing that some members 'watch tv or movies' with their Ts! Go tell them off. Go call them ignorant. Because I seem to be the ONLY one you're singling out for this opinion. And it's getting old.

When you have proof, I will gladly stop holding my T. Until then, please stop.
 

briarpatch10

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
67
Raine

Fran, it's not ignorance. I
I don't appreciate you treating me like I have no clue what I am saying, FONT]


By your own Admission "new to Tarantulas...thinking about getting my first t.
whatever you wanted to say on your first post, you dont know what you are talking about...so take the advice almost everyone has given you and ...ask questions...get info....stop arguing because that is exactly what you are doing. Touch you T's, play with them ,lick them ,stick them on top of your head do whatever you want to but STOP TELLING PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE WRONG FOR GIVING YOU "ASKED FOR" ADVICE. you have your own opinion great ..opinions are like hiney holes , everybody has one! Have a nice day A!
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
I asked questions. I got info. And the info was that there is no proof handling causes stress, shortens life span, or does the T any harm whatsoever. The info was that everyone has their own opinion on this but not a single person has any proof that it is bad for them in any way, or that it is done for more than people's enjoyment. That equally experienced members have opposite opinions. So yeah, I'm going to argue it. Because I don't like people saying I'm ignorant when they are being just as because all we both have are opinions and no facts. I'd have a nicer day if the three or four members who have the opposite opinion just ended the discussion and stopped with the petty insults about ignorance and all that.
 

Falk

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
679
I can be stressed out without anyone notice it, same with a tarantula. Just because they dont react defensivly it doesnt mean they dont feel stress. The spider is relaxing fine in their enclosure and all of a sudden they get taken out and have to sit/ or walk on an totaly unfamiliar area. Also species that require more humidity , Brachypelma vagans just to name one, will go from a humid enclosure to a dry living room, bed room ect. I am no master in formulating myself but you know what im trying to say.

And what good will it do to a tarantula when it is being handled? If the tarantula dont benefit anything from being handled there is no reason to handle it.

And another thing: The Grammostola spp. are known for their moodswings so they can be docile, calm, whatever when you pick it up and 3sec later you have 2fangs in your hand. And if it bites you, you will probaly drop or fling your spider away to a sertain death.
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,533
Raine doesnt know what stress means either, or at least thats what it seems like.

The tarantula doesnt need to die off the moment you handle her to show you thats a no-no. Stress on your tarantula is anything you do but leaving her the hell alone, and feeding her.

Obviously there are needed stress situations. Feedings, waterings, maintenance.
Opening the cage, grabbing her and taking her out of her habitat just for your amusement is an UNNECESSARY stress that will sooner or later pay a toll on her.
Wheter is falling and breaking a leg, or scaping, or not letting her getting acclimated at all...It will pay a toll.

Now again, do whatever the heck you want with it...But please do some research. Up until some hours ago you didnt even know a tarantula can live 20 or 30 years.

Not knowing is fine, Im not an expert either, but you are showing ignorance trying to defend whats not really defendable.


PS: Falk beat me to it.
 

briarpatch10

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
67
no more help

info. So yeah, I'm going to argue
That about says it all... you have gotten your last bit of help from me. You were only given opinions based on years of being in this hobby. I have only been in this hobby for about 7 months now and dont know nearly enough to argue with people that have been doing this for 10-20 years+. I have recieved tons of help from the others on this board. I took what I needed and left the rest if I recieved what I thought to be bad or misinformed advice I didnt follow it but I didnt argue with the people trying to help me.
Maybe you should just stick to goldfish! The only real thing you need to know is you flush them when they die.
 
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