Too rare to handle?

[dannyboypede]

there are some species that are too rare for me to want to own. i would love to have an m. balfouri but if it died, i would die.

Dan

 

[Scorpionking20]

I think most people that are in the hobby for a good amount of time lose interest in holding there Ts as much as they did when they started. I personaly get more gratification from watching them behave naturaly. But when i rehouse a select few that are docile, i dont mind nudging them on to my hand. Or when a little handling when a guest comes over. Like you and i have already said, its more of an invitation to the hobby and people will only benefit from seeing how docile they are.

For people here saying its possible for them to live a shorter life from handling:

That is the most unscientific claim i have heard yet. You can say its possible but honestly thats just total BS. I can say: "They benefit from human contact because it will desensitize them." I dont think either of these claims myself. At best a "wild guess".

Im just pointing out how rediculous it is to argue anything out side of hard scientific facts. Im not saying a tarantula that is handled will live a longer or shorter life because there is no proof. Its just a terrible "What if" point of view.

Im talking about safe handling not tossing your T around, using it as a football, poking it in the eye or taking it out to the drag races and puting it in the passenger seat, ect. Just simple slow interaction.

Perhaps we should become a duo and have a "Rally to Restore Sanity."

I think often of how things can be polarized online...like there is one "true" way to enjoy our animals. As fishlike pets people should become educated of risks and rewards and make their own decisions. Really...the polarization on this subject is fun for me to observe. I'm on your' side, where I don't really handle much, but think the occasional, deserved and beneficial handling of Ts can be a good thing.

I've had MANY people come over and become fascinated with them. Even more so on the occasion that I give them instruction on handling of Ts. Its usually after a person holds their first T where they'll break down and get that first Rosy from the LPS.

 

[Raine]

For people here saying its possible for them to live a shorter life from handling:

That is the most unscientific claim i have heard yet. You can say its possible but honestly thats just total BS. I can say: "They benefit from human contact because it will desensitize them." I dont think either of these claims myself. At best a "wild guess".

Im just pointing out how rediculous it is to argue anything out side of hard scientific facts. Im not saying a tarantula that is handled will live a longer or shorter life because there is no proof. Its just a terrible "What if" point of view.

Im talking about safe handling not tossing your T around, using it as a football, poking it in the eye or taking it out to the drag races and puting it in the passenger seat, ect. Just simple slow interaction.

I laughed so hard when I read this. Having a very hard day today and this brightened it right up. Very nice commentary!

The ONLY reason I even started to want a T to begin with was I know a breeder two cities over. I went there to get some dubia roaches for my Sav. Monitor and he was showing me his Ts. I thought they were 'interesting'. But I was really worried about what would happen if one got out. Plus I figured any spider would be liable to bite you if you touched it. Then he took out his G. Rosea female.

I was SO nervous when he nudged her into my hand. I was sitting down with my hand about an inch or two off the bed. But then when I held her...it was like this new fascination arose. I wanted one. Not enough to actively seek one out but for months it never left my mind. Now I have one and am eying more!

 

[xhexdx]

Hey Raine,

Species name isn't supposed to be capitalized.

 

[Raine]

Hey Raine,

Species name isn't supposed to be capitalized.

Species name...? So would this be like the 'vagan' and 'rosea' part of the name?

 

[Quixtar]

Species name...? So would this be like the 'vagan' and 'rosea' part of the name?

Brachypelma vagans
Grammostola rosea

 

[Scorpionking20]

Spot on

Species name...? So would this be like the 'vagan' and 'rosea' part of the name?

Capitalize Genus, no species. I'm sure you get it by now but just in case, L parahybana, H lividum, G pulchra, etc.

Anyways, thanks for your' story! That's what I was talking about...it helps people that wouldn't even know they were interested.

Then there is the opposite side...people handling Ts while on a ladder, every day, while blowing on them and hitting them with sticks.

Again...I think it's all grey and subjective. Are Fran and his pals wrong? Not at all! Does that mean they are right? Not necessarily. They are right that Ts won't appreciate you or the handling, and they won't benefit from it. That's for sure. However, I think if careful, responsible handling can get somebody into the hobby (or even enlighten them) or help with a fear of spiders, with minimal risk to the T and persons involved, then that's great.

There is no right or wrong. Just varying subjective opinions. Some with more merit than others. Fran and Joe's (Joe...right?) opinion is better than another person saying "But they are stressed in nature!" At least the "don't ever hold them" has merits with the health of the T in mind.

 

[Raine]

Okay, good to know! Will try and remember that one.

Awah, I just found out that Tarantula Canada delivers Brachypelma vagans for $10 and they only cost $10! Shards it's making me want it even more. This site, as I said, is dangerous to me since there are so many pretty Ts and lots of nice ones for beginners like me that are docile.

I think maybe I will get ones that I won't handle in future so long as they're not very venomous as well. Like more expensive species that are not super docile but not really aggressive, either...

Except I LOVE the Lampropelma violaceopes! At only $40 for a T so beautiful it's a lovely buy. I just can not find information about how venomous they are. They are aggressive but I would not handle this one.

Again with the Psalmopoeus irminia I like it but can't find the venom potency.

I seem to really like a lot of the Brachy Ts. The rosea is nice too. That look is nice.

 

[Redneck]

I laughed so hard when I read this. Having a very hard day today and this brightened it right up. Very nice commentary!

The ONLY reason I even started to want a T to begin with was I know a breeder two cities over. I went there to get some dubia roaches for my Sav. Monitor and he was showing me his Ts. I thought they were 'interesting'. But I was really worried about what would happen if one got out. Plus I figured any spider would be liable to bite you if you touched it. Then he took out his G. Rosea female.

I was SO nervous when he nudged her into my hand. I was sitting down with my hand about an inch or two off the bed. But then when I held her...it was like this new fascination arose. I wanted one. Not enough to actively seek one out but for months it never left my mind. Now I have one and am eying more!

So.. You know a G. rosea breeder 2 cities over... Because he is a rosea breeder he is an expert? This would mean since I am an A. avicularia breeder I am an expert... right?

I only ask because you keep tossing out how you "know a breeder".. Guess what.. Half of the guys you have argued with.. They have bred more species that your G. rosea breeder friend that you keep talking about..

You should also know something else... You have had a G. rosea for all of three or four days?

These guys that you have laughed at (or so it seems you have..) about their "non-handling opinions".. They have been keeping these creatures for many many years now.. Like... 10+ years...

I think I would more believe these guys that are trying to help you, teach you, keep your T less stress.. Before some guy two cities over that is a G. rosea breeder..

Maybe a little less disrespect to the older guys.. Might get you a little more knowledge in your head!

But hey.. You can treat them how you want.. They dont have to post in your next threat.. Your loss really!

 

[briarpatch10]

Bravo REDNECK, Hold em or just look at em its up to each hobbiest to decide for themselves. I do not hold my T's. I dont see the point. They dont need it and neither do I do enjoy them. I will never understand why this is such a heated debate.....

 

[Raine]

Redneck...this has nothing to do with the opinions of the other people. I was telling a story about how I first became interested in tarantulas. So why you are assuming it has anything to do with the discussion we had earlier is beyond me.

Neither did I laugh at their opinions. I think you're reading too much between the lines. I found the way she said the last line funny...and I am not allowed?

Im talking about safe handling not tossing your T around, using it as a football, poking it in the eye or taking it out to the drag races and puting it in the passenger seat, ect.

I think the imagery of doing any of the above mentioned is funny. Because no one would. You are being defensive where there is no need to be. I think we already stated several times that this is a matter of opinion.

Also, the breeder I know breeds more than G. rosea. He's also the only breeder I have personally met, and my mentioning him was in pertaining to the story...so please stop reading between the lines here. There's zero mention of me 'laughing' at anyone's opinions. Zero mention of my not listening to the other members.

Plus, I debated about the handling. After hearing BOTH sides of the story. I am more than free to believing occasional handling is not harmful because I can find no proof otherwise. That subject was labeled 'matter of opinion'. I'm entitled to mine. I am not debating any of their advice, any of their T facts. In fact I'm utilizing them. So please don't put words into my mouth or try and say I am doing something I am not.

If I say I read somewhere something was a certain way, I noted how quick a couple users are to jump down my throat for questioning what they've said. I have NO idea who has how many years of experience or who is breeding etc. They could have researched their info online for all I know. But when anyone provides advice because they have the experience (and say they have or I know they have) or facts from reputable books (I'm getting a hold of the Tarantula Keeper's Guide) I haven't even disputed it. So please don't try to find things that aren't there.

Again: the whole handling thing is a matter of opinion, and from what you're stating you think that because they have been working with T's longer they must know. But that is only because it is also YOUR opinion that you share with those particular people. Equally experienced people on here are saying they see no harm in holding. So what you have, in essence said, is that your opinion and theirs is the right one, and I and the others should not have our own.

NO PROOF that handling causes stress. So anyone acting like they are right because their opinion is that it does? It's not a fact. It's your opinion. I'm entitled to my own. And so are the other more experienced than me users who agree.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

I'm sensing a little bit of a DawgPoundSound here. Good point Redneck. To Raine, you have been disputing with everyone on here who has told you different then the "guy two cities over that is a G. rosea breeder." You have basically told us we are wrong, again I said basically, when we gave you age approximations and such. Anyway I hope you learn some stuff from being here and reading the TKG. This hobby is great so have fun with it.

 

[Redneck]

Redneck...this has nothing to do with the opinions of the other people. I was telling a story about how I first became interested in tarantulas. So why you are assuming it has anything to do with the discussion we had earlier is beyond me.

Neither did I laugh at their opinions. I think you're reading too much between the lines. I found the way she said the last line funny...and I am not allowed?



I think the imagery of doing any of the above mentioned is funny. Because no one would. You are being defensive where there is no need to be. I think we already stated several times that this is a matter of opinion.

Also, the breeder I know breeds more than G. rosea. He's also the only breeder I have personally met, and my mentioning him was in pertaining to the story...so please stop reading between the lines here. There's zero mention of me 'laughing' at anyone's opinions. Zero mention of my not listening to the other members.

Plus, I debated about the handling. After hearing BOTH sides of the story. I am more than free to believing occasional handling is not harmful because I can find no proof otherwise. That subject was labeled 'matter of opinion'. I'm entitled to mine. I am not debating any of their advice, any of their T facts. In fact I'm utilizing them. So please don't put words into my mouth or try and say I am doing something I am not.

If I say I read somewhere something was a certain way, I noted how quick a couple users are to jump down my throat for questioning what they've said. I have NO idea who has how many years of experience or who is breeding etc. They could have researched their info online for all I know. But when anyone provides advice because they have the experience (and say they have or I know they have) or facts from reputable books (I'm getting a hold of the Tarantula Keeper's Guide) I haven't even disputed it. So please don't try to find things that aren't there.

Again: the whole handling thing is a matter of opinion, and from what you're stating you think that because they have been working with T's longer they must know. But that is only because it is also YOUR opinion that you share with those particular people. Equally experienced people on here are saying they see no harm in holding. So what you have, in essence said, is that your opinion and theirs is the right one, and I and the others should not have our own.

NO PROOF that handling causes stress. So anyone acting like they are right because their opinion is that it does? It's not a fact. It's your opinion. I'm entitled to my own. And so are the other more experienced than me users who agree.

I apologise for seeming defensive & reading to far in between the lines.. I shall refrain from anymore post.. :worship:

 

[Fran]

OP needs a lot of reding and researching. Thats for sure.


To say that tarantulas that are often disturbed=Handled will probably have a shorter life span, is,at the very least and using the scientific logic, a very sound and scientific way of thinking.

 

[Raine]

Chris...it came from a breeder. Who bred it. So knew exactly how old it was. I am allowed to 'dispute' that. Is it a common habit here to say if someone says something, and that something is known to them to be a fact about their own spider, they are to defer to the older members if they say something like 'I doubt it's this age' when it was CB and the OB knew exactly how old it was? I even gave some leeway allowing that it might have been three and a half or something. Which I knew it wasn't because I was told its age already, just so I could be complacent with the people telling me otherwise...that just seems a bit wrong to me.

As for that so called scientific way of thinking--science is proven by facts. There are none to prove it. But it sounds like I'm not allowed to say things like that...otherwise I am arguing with people who 'know' their opinion is right. And thanks, Redneck...I am not arguing with people. I am stating what I know to be true (my own spider's age because the person who bred it would obviously know) and the opinion (which I'm entitled to) that unless there is proof (like with chameleons) that it shortens their life span or harms them physically or mentally I will continue occasional handling. I let her alone if she's in her hide. I let her alone if she is relaxing. But when I go to refill her water and she wants to explore I'm going to let her climb onto me and do her thing.

Don't you think this is getting out of hand? When I simply stated that we could agree it was a matter of opinion people started posting AGAIN trying to what? Get me to agree with theirs? I'm not going to change mine. They're not going to change theirs. So that should be the end of discussion until something comes out that IS scientific proof otherwise.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

Chris...it came from a breeder. Who bred it. So knew exactly how old it was. I am allowed to 'dispute' that.

I am stating what I know to be true (my own spider's age because the person who bred it would obviously know).

What about this?

Hey all. She was captive bred by someone I met's friend. He breeds Chilean Rose T's and said she was three years old. He was two and a bit when he got her.

So who did you get it from? The guy? Or his friend that breeds them?

Did you talk to the breeder?

 

[Raine]

... ... ...

There are three other people living with him that can and did confirm what he said on 'her' age. Do I have to talk to the OB to believe them? It's a friend of his. So you're saying unless I talk to the OB, who is his friend, I am to just assume they are all lying? I like to have a little faith in people. I'm not going to arrogantly assume they are lying when a) they have no reason to and b) the OB is his friend. Not just some random person he got it from.

I don't know why people on here are so defensive about something like this. Or the other 'handling issue'. Something I have learned in life: you can't always be right. But you don't go around practically calling people you don't know liars--especially when what they've said is perfectly plausible.

 

[briarpatch10]

is it just me or is someone particularly long winded...my eyes get tired just reading all that! lol

 

[Rowdy Hotel]

When I was a kid I had rosehairs as gifts that I handled and let out for a supervised stroll occasionally believing it would keep it "tame". None lived out their full average lifespans I don't believe. Virtually every friend wanted to see it when they were over and for whatever reason people always insisted someone handle it as well.

I wish I had the Arachnoboards back then...

Fast forward a decade or so and after seeing some awesome T's on a poster I set out to look them up online. Looking up a species gets you many hits on AB so I set up an account and after lurking only a few days I took the plunge and bought my very first T's. I don't know if I've been here even one year now and currently I have 120-130, lots of slings and juvies but T's nonetheless.

As someone who still considers himself to be a beginner I recommend to Raine that you lurk a lot on the AB, post very little, and not be so dismissive of what vastly more experienced people have to say . I've lurked and I've learned a ton.

I like rosehairs because they're cheap, docile, and very easy to care for. The fact that they're cheap means I can give them away and I have several times to people who weren't so sure about tarantulas before. I do this by getting them to handle it despite their fears/trepidations and if I notice they seem kind of intrigued I tell them how there is no easier and cheaper pet to have and then I offer to just give it to them. I'm always sure to explain the handling part, how it's very unnecessary and that the T is much happier left alone. I also urge them to join the AB if they want to learn more.

 

[Falk]

I only handle my Ts if they don't seem to object to it. If they kick hairs, or are pet holes - obviously not. My first T, Fang (A. hentzi or anax) actually strolled over to sit in my hand, never flicked hairs, and was very docile. I have yet to fine another that is quite like she was. I had her for several years.

Scrunchie, my seemani, is sitting in a little open acrylic box on my desk right now. A little gentle persuading to get her in the box, and then she just sits there. No kicking, no nothing. She doesn't act any different being handled than she does in her cage.

Mae West - um, nope, Not going to handle that one, or the H lividum that tried to eat the paintbrush rehoming him the first day. Slings, nope.

Would I play with a $600 spider - doubtful, afraid something would happen to it. But if a T is calm and doesn't mind, and *isn't breeding stock*, I will gently handle mine.

I know most people don't endorse handling their Ts. I don't endorse anyone who isn't knowledgeable about horses, donkeys, mules or zebras handling an intact stallion. There are two sides and a neutral position to every argument, and always will be.

It's your T... if you want to risk injury to you or it... regardless of species or price, then I guess it's your right to do so. Just remember how it might feel to them... and if you'd like it done to you!

Marga

600 bucks for a B. klaasi???