Too rare to handle?

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
I got my tarantula from someone who got her from a Chilean Rose Tarantula breeder. They got her when she was 2 years of age, his friend bred his G. Rosea and raised her from a sling. You tell me there are 'no G. Rosea breeders. Well, I can't tell you where his friend got the parents from. Maybe they were wild caught or they got the parent from wild and their sac hatched in captivity. But whatever the case? He breeds G. Rosea.

They have been bred in captivity for years now...so I have no idea where you're getting that 'there are no G. Rosea breeders'. Obviously there are. Otherwise my tarantula sitting in the tank over there doesn't exist. And I have met someone two cities away from me who also breeds them. He had a ton of slings in little containers that his female laid. So obviously they exist. Around where I am? Lots of people have bred them.

Maybe some breeders advise against it. I don't know. Also you telling me it is 'highly unlikely' she is three years old is also practically you telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. I know where she's from, he knew her age, and I can take a picture of her if you have issues believing what others tell you because you 'doubt it'.

Every site I research on tells me they reach full growth at 3-4 years. Is that wrong, on all of them? Why are you doubting she's three years old? Do you need a picture, as I asked? Because I can easily take one. She's easily as long as my palm. That seems about right to me.

I don't know everything. Or I wouldn't be on here asking questions. This is my first T. but honestly, I'm doing my best and don't need hardcore T. keepers telling me they doubt what I say or their opinion is the right one. There is no proof handling them stresses them out. Not anywhere have I seen proof of them being stressed by handling.

As for 'scientific proof' you don't have any that handling causes them stress...so why are you getting so defensive about me saying I don't believe it does? I don't know how many he has had and kept. And tarantulas live for 10-15 years...not 25. I can ask. But all I said is that none of the ones he had showed any differences in behavior or habits whether handled or not. I don't care if it hasn't been massively scientifically proven that it doesn't. It hasn't been proven that it does.

The one reason I don't normally join forums is the hardcore keepers who jump down your throat with their opinions, whether fact or not, because they don't like yours. I don't need it here, I came to get advice and am fully aware I don't know everything. But nor does anyone. I'm doing the best I can and trying to correct anything I might not be doing correctly. That's all anyone can do.

On another note my T. does not hide, run, or act defensive when I put my hand in her tank. She climbs up the side and onto my hand, or I give her the gentlest of touches and she walks onto it. The same was true of the breeder 2 cities away, when he showed me his favorite female. He put his hand in. She did not run, she didn't posture or hide. She just walked calmly onto his hand when he gently touched her.
 
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Chris_Skeleton

Arachnoprince
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Just to tell you, everything in your previous post is entirely your opinion. Aside from handling, because that truly is opinion, the others have gave you correct information. If your tarantula is bigger than 4" then it is at least 4 years old most likely. And yes tarantulas do live upwards of 25 years. If you are going to come on here and ask questions then you need to listen to what you are told. Your tarantula does not climb up your arm because it likes you or even because it wants to, it is simply exploring/escaping confinement or whatever. As for your 'scientific proof' you have none either, so you stating it is fine to handle them and it doesn't stress them out is invalid in your own argument. I can say what you need to correct is listening to what experienced keepers tell you, not the ones who just got one this week from a guy who they think knows what he is talking about, but the keepers who have been in this hobby, spent vast amount time and invested both great time and money in the hobby, and have experience with the tarantulas. They have provided you good info. You can not come on here and tell the ones who actually do know what they are talking about, that they are wrong and that you are right merely based on your opinion. I suggest you listen to what others have said, because frankly, you don't have enough experience/research to know what you are talking about. Sorry if it sounds rude, but it gets on my last nerve when new users come on here that just got a tarantula, and tell others they are wrong.

Whatever you want to believe is up to you, but do not tell others they are wrong when you have no merit to say so.

Sorry if it was harsh.

Good luck
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
I said I don't THINK it stresses them out based on what I have seen/heard/researched. I never said they were wrong...just that they have an opinion and so do I and neither of us have solid proof so don't try to say their opinion is the right one...because opinions are not facts. I haven't told anyone they are wrong. No where does it say that. But when I get a tarantula from someone who tells me where he got her and her age, I'm not going to NOT believe him because you say he must be making it up or not know what he's talking about.

She's not even four inches. Closer to 3.15 inches. About 8-9cm max. So no bigger than 3 1/2 inches. I never said she was an adult anywhere, either. I thought she was full grown but never said anything about anyone saying she might not be.

Besides that I have written several times that I don't know if she likes it just that if she DISLIKED it she would not do it or bite, fling hairs, run and hide, posture. None of which she does. I'm not forcing her to climb onto me either. She is free to run away or go off to the side and hide. Why does everyone keep assuming I think she likes me? I don't know where anyone gets that impression from. She very well is probably just wanting to explore and get out of her terrarium. I never said she wasn't. I just said simply she DOES. So please don't put words into my mouth...

Every single site and book I've checked said G. Rosea live 10-15 years on average. Not one said 25 years. So pardon me for not knowing. I would have thought books by reputable people would be true...so if they're not that is not my fault I believed they were.

Again: I did not tell anyone they are wrong. I told them I have my opinion, they have theirs, and they can't simply sit there and tell me all of them are wrong, or that I must be mistaken about the age etc. because I'm really not. I just got told flat out 'there are no G. Rosea breeders' when I know there are. I've met one and heard of others. If it is not advisable to do they have done it anyhow. Not my fault there.

 

KnightinGale

Arachnoknight
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Sep 16, 2009
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Actually Raine, some species do live 25 years, or even longer. Also, some species live less than 10-15 years. Some mature in 2 or 3 years, but many do not. G. Roseas are notorious for being slow growers. I'm not going to say anything about your tarantula or where you got her, but I would say to not trust alot of the internet information and care sheets out there. G . Roseas are very commonly sold in petstores and petstores often give misinformation to their buyers about them. Then any of those buyers can go and write a care sheet. Alot of the time people are told they have females when they don't, or are told the wrong age for their tarantula. They don't know it is wrong and they post the information. Any of the stickies on this forum have lots of good stuff. There is one particularly on this species.
As for age, here is a quote from the Tarantula Keeper's Guide so you don't have to take my word for it:
"The females of many species may live one or two decades or more (Baerg 1963) beyond their maturing or ultimate molt."
This is a book written by a couple with a huge wealth of personal experience combined with alot of great research. Highly recommended.
Don't get too riled about people not agreeing with you. It will happen, but there is also alot of support here, sharing of information and discussion. Getting mad will only make things harder.
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
It's not that I'm riled with disagreeing. If they have facts about something they want to share (like you just did!) I am MORE than happy to believe a more experienced person. It's why I'm here. But the handling issue is NOT a fact and all those disagreeing are acting like I'm wrong and it is. That is what is irksome. Plus I apologize for any errors where I've done research online and taken quotes they put down from what they said were good books. If I see everywhere that G. Rosea live 10-15 years on average on the sites--right up until I just put in 'how long do G. Rosea live for' and got 15-20 years--then I'm going to put in what research has said but if someone gives me a fact and how they know I'll go with that.

Of course I would want Char to live 20-25 years if she does that's great! I'm not going to knock a great thing. But she is female. She is three years old and at least half an inch away from four inches. Those things are facts because she did not come from a pet store. She came from someone who hatched and gave her to his friend. That is a truth. No one can argue it the way they are. She's not done growing then. And she's not four inches. So it is perfectly plausible she's three...right? :(
 

KnightinGale

Arachnoknight
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Messages
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I have never watched a Rosea grow up, so someone else will have to answer that. Here's Stan Schultz's info on life span specific to that species:

"LIFE SPAN:
Roses have not been bred in captivity often enough or kept in
captivity long enough for us to make anything more than a wild guess at
maximum life spans. They've only been imported in any numbers for possibly
10 years, certainly less than 20. During that time they have only been
bred in captivity a handful of times.

Because the wild caught ones don't come with birth certificates we don't
know how old they are when we get them. They may live anywhere from 10
minutes or less to 10 years or more in our care, and I wouldn't be a bit
surprised to hear of someone who's had one since 1980 or so that's still
going strong. The few captive raised ones have had nowhere near enough
time to mature, live a full life span and die of old age, so we have no
handle on a maximum lifespan in captivity.

As an educated guess we can bracket the probable limits of their lifespans
at more than 10 years and less than 100 years. Reasonable guesses might be
20 to 40 years. Beyond that, all bets are off."
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
Nice! :D But yeah...I was told she's three. She's smaller than 4" and I was told she is female. I might take a good look to make sure. But based on what I saw already she is? -goes to get-

Well, she has no hooks and no little bulbs at the end of the front...not sure of proper name for two appendages that are not legs.
 

Redneck

Arachnoprince
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Messages
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Nice! :D But yeah...I was told she's three. She's smaller than 4" and I was told she is female. I might take a good look to make sure. But based on what I saw already she is? -goes to get-

Well, she has no hooks and no little bulbs at the end of the front...not sure of proper name for two appendages that are not legs.
I have 5 G. rosea slings.. They were produced by my female.. I have had them for over a year now.. They are as of their last molt (Which was 2-3 weeks ago..) 1.75".. I have been powerfeeding them and keeping them warm! (That makes them grow much faster than normal..) Thats not alot of growth though..

If you do have a male (Not saying you do!) it might not be a mature male.. That is why you wouldnt see the mature sexual organs that a MM would have..
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
10
Well, if they are 1.75" at a little over a year, then it is plausible that mine is 3 years and 3.50". Another thing: he said she was three years old. He did not mention how close she was to four years of age. For all I know she could be closer to four. Is it not possible to tell gender of a tarantula if they are only two years of age? I hope it's not male. It doesn't seem like a male. Do I need to take a photo...? I mean I only know to look for the bulbs on the front appendages and hooks on the legs. I have no clue how to check the other since 'she' has not molted yet (only had her a few days now). :eek:
 

Redneck

Arachnoprince
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Well, if they are 1.75" at a little over a year, then it is plausible that mine is 3 years and 3.50". Another thing: he said she was three years old. He did not mention how close she was to four years of age. For all I know she could be closer to four. Is it not possible to tell gender of a tarantula if they are only two years of age? I hope it's not male. It doesn't seem like a male. Do I need to take a photo...? I mean I only know to look for the bulbs on the front appendages and hooks on the legs. I have no clue how to check the other since 'she' has not molted yet (only had her a few days now). :eek:
Yeah.. It is plausible that she is 3.5" at three.. IF she was powerfed.. The larger a tarantula gets.. The longer it takes them to molt..

For example.. My slings molted once a month when they were .5".. Now.. They are taking several months to molt.. (I have not really kept up with their molt records..)

But that is going to happen with "most" slings..

Once they get larger.. Say 3.5"-4" They "could" take as long as a year to molt..

Yes.. There are a couple ways to sex a T..

You can ventrally sex it.. But this way is NOT a 100% accurate way..

The most accurate way to sex yours is to wait for "her" to molt..

I have a 4" rosea.. Had her for over a year.. She just molted a month ago.. ;)
I also have another rosea that is 5".. She molted right after X-mas.. Hasnt molted since..

If yours is eating.. Get ready for a nice long wait for a molt..
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Messages
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Power fed...well, he said he was feeding her gut loaded crickets, about 10-12 once a week. That sounds like a ton to me...is that power feeding? Because I read 3-4 every 2 weeks was what I should feed a T of her size. If that's even right. :8o

She's eating all right. I dropped six crickets in her tank day one. She ripped through three immediately. I fed the other three to my Savannah for fun. They were large size crickets and I love watching him chase them. He's 3 feet and doesn't really normally get them except to exercise. Roaches are bigger! My cats ended up getting one cricket though. :D
 

Redneck

Arachnoprince
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Power fed...well, he said he was feeding her gut loaded crickets, about 10-12 once a week. That sounds like a ton to me...is that power feeding? Because I read 3-4 every 2 weeks was what I should feed a T of her size. If that's even right. :8o

She's eating all right. I dropped six crickets in her tank day one. She ripped through three immediately. I fed the other three to my Savannah for fun. They were large size crickets and I love watching him chase them. He's 3 feet and doesn't really normally get them except to exercise. Roaches are bigger! My cats ended up getting one cricket though. :D
If he was feeding her 10-12 crickets a week.. Then it is very possible that she is 3 years old.. That is some serious powerfeeding! Like.. She should be sickly obese!

You could feed her 1 cricket a week if you wanted.. I feed my girls (I have 5 mature females!) one cricket every two weeks.. (Trying to slim them down!)
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
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Nov 12, 2010
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Well, he said sometimes she'd eat 6 and sometimes she'd eat a couple more but never less than six or seven? She's not obese if the other people's pictures are anything to go by. But yeah, I'd say it's serious power feeding if you're feeding yours one a week. :eek:

I was going to give her four every two weeks. Maybe I should give her three a week if she's this trim and was used to eating six? :? Some advice here would be good! I have read that Ts will just keep on eating but she's not obese so I'm very confused!
 

Redneck

Arachnoprince
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Well, he said sometimes she'd eat 6 and sometimes she'd eat a couple more but never less than six or seven? She's not obese if the other people's pictures are anything to go by. But yeah, I'd say it's serious power feeding if you're feeding yours one a week. :eek:

I was going to give her four every two weeks. Maybe I should give her three a week if she's this trim and was used to eating six? :? Some advice here would be good! I have read that Ts will just keep on eating but she's not obese so I'm very confused!
If you enjoy feeding her & watching her eat.. Stick with one a week.. Feed her to much.. She will start fasting.. Some people have had their rosea go 2 years without eating.. I had one go without wating for 9 months..
 

Raine

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
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Yes, I do enjoy watching her feed it's so interesting! I can do one a week, then. Is that too little for her though after that extreme power feeding...? Do you think maybe I ought to start out with 2 a week for a bit then one? I mean you'd know better than me on this. Just don't want to underfeed either, and I do want her to grow bigger! :)
 

Redneck

Arachnoprince
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Yes, I do enjoy watching her feed it's so interesting! I can do one a week, then. Is that too little for her though after that extreme power feeding...? Do you think maybe I ought to start out with 2 a week for a bit then one? I mean you'd know better than me on this. Just don't want to underfeed either, and I do want her to grow bigger! :)
You can feed 2 a week if you wanted to.. But its really not needed.. They can get fat really easy and fast if you dont keep them warm enough... So.. 1-2 a week would suffice..
 

Chris_Skeleton

Arachnoprince
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Also males dont have bulbs on their pedipalps or tibial hooks their whole life. So you very well might have a male. They only get those features after their ultimate (final) molt.

P.S. We have completely hijacked this thread.
 

Scorpionking20

Arachnoknight
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May 31, 2010
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Going back to the OPs question, I try not to handle Ts except for rare scenarios where it may be beneficial. Examples would be showing people they are not vicious (which gets more people into the hobby) or when a T decides to run away during maintenance or some such thing. I'd rather use a catch cup, but I've been caught in situations where it was handle the T or lose track of it to get the catch cup. I've opted to handle the T rather than possibly lose it on those occasions.

I think handling a T to educate and fascinate people into joining the hobby isn't a bad thing. Any time handling on purpose should be done as safely as possible. I'm past the point where I hold them for my gratification, but showing a friend's wife how they aren't out to get you, how interesting they move, and how truly magnificent they are isn't a bad thing in my book. I recently got a friend to join the hobby via this method.

As with most things in life, there are few blacks and whites, but lots of greys.
 

Mattyb

Arachnoking
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I rarely handle even my docile T's, since I simply don't feel the need to do so.
That being said, I have ZERO attachment to whether or not someone else handles their animals.

Frankly I don't understand the militant "YOU SHOULDN'T EVER HANDLE YOUR TARANTULAS....EVER!!! IT'S WRONG!!!" stance.

If you don't want to handle them then great, don't handle them and get on with your day. Just don't get bent when someone posts that careful, sensible handling of appropriate species is harmless if done correctly. I've seen no empirical data to lead me to believe it stresses them or has any negative impact on their health whatsoever.

I avoid it simply because of they're fragility, and it's an easily avoided risk factor.
I agree with you Jim. I rarely ever handle mine unless i need to.
 

AgentD006las

Arach-how about..NO
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Jan 30, 2010
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Going back to the OPs question, I try not to handle Ts except for rare scenarios where it may be beneficial. Examples would be showing people they are not vicious (which gets more people into the hobby) or when a T decides to run away during maintenance or some such thing. I'd rather use a catch cup, but I've been caught in situations where it was handle the T or lose track of it to get the catch cup. I've opted to handle the T rather than possibly lose it on those occasions.

I think handling a T to educate and fascinate people into joining the hobby isn't a bad thing. Any time handling on purpose should be done as safely as possible. I'm past the point where I hold them for my gratification, but showing a friend's wife how they aren't out to get you, how interesting they move, and how truly magnificent they are isn't a bad thing in my book. I recently got a friend to join the hobby via this method.

As with most things in life, there are few blacks and whites, but lots of greys.
I think most people that are in the hobby for a good amount of time lose interest in holding there Ts as much as they did when they started. I personaly get more gratification from watching them behave naturaly. But when i rehouse a select few that are docile, i dont mind nudging them on to my hand. Or when a little handling when a guest comes over. Like you and i have already said, its more of an invitation to the hobby and people will only benefit from seeing how docile they are.

For people here saying its possible for them to live a shorter life from handling:

That is the most unscientific claim i have heard yet. You can say its possible but honestly thats just total BS. I can say: "They benefit from human contact because it will desensitize them." I dont think either of these claims myself. At best a "wild guess".

Im just pointing out how rediculous it is to argue anything out side of hard scientific facts. Im not saying a tarantula that is handled will live a longer or shorter life because there is no proof. Its just a terrible "What if" point of view.

Im talking about safe handling not tossing your T around, using it as a football, poking it in the eye or taking it out to the drag races and puting it in the passenger seat, ect. Just simple slow interaction.
 
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