Thermometers etc

Kasuxb

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Thank you for allowing me to join I'm new to owning jumping spiders I now have 3 , they all have hygrometers/thermometers in their enclosures , and the humidity is kept at between 70-75% but the temp always drops , I read somewhere that hygrometers/ thermometers don't need to be in the enclosures all the time because they aren't waterproof and can be damaged when misting etc , I was wandering are the thermometers that are used in fishtanks (the stick on ones) ok to use in enclosures as I thought I'd get a more accurate temperature reading thank you for any help
 

The Snark

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I read somewhere that hygrometers/ thermometers don't need to be in the enclosures all the time because they aren't waterproof and can be damaged when misting etc
Quality hygrometers are designed to be unaffected by moisture. Of course there are cheap versions that can oxidize. I've only used the ones that are sensor type used in HVAC and especially refrigeration environments where moisture is constantly condensing, and those certified for use in hospitals and last for decades in any and all environments.
I suppose the same applies to thermometers, mostly the metal coiled spring type that can corrode, oxidize over time. Proper thermometers aren't environment sensitive.
 
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Introvertebrate

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............I was wandering are the thermometers that are used in fishtanks (the stick on ones) ok to use in enclosures as I thought I'd get a more accurate temperature reading thank you for any help
I'm wondering if the fish tank ones are designed to be submerged in water. I use cheap stick type thermometers from Home Depot. Some are designed to be mounted outside a house window, so they must have some weather resistance.
 

The Snark

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Home Depot sells whatever was supplied that assures a certain profit margin. Stick type can be anything but is usually a mechanical probe type that can be cleaned. Being cleaned, as your turkey thermometer, is the major issue. Others have a probe sensor on a thin metal tube with the scale placed remotely. So, mechanically immune or protected from the environmental hazards, cleanable - as in wash the probe with the dishes, accuracy and temperature range are what you look for. Or digital with a probe that can be cleaned.
Always, if possible compare thermometers of the same type to make sure they have the same reading. If they differ you buy the one closest to the median average of several.
 

The Snark

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Hygrometer hilarity.
At the hospital I worked at there was a humidifier system attached to the HVAC. A complex idiotically designed Rube Goldberg monster consisting of filters, an air cropressor, piping and tubing laced all over the hospital, subject to wear and tear and required regular testing with documentation at various locations. Right after I went to work there as bio-med tech the administration dumped the humidifier system in my lap. Pretty much the entire system needed rebuilding.
So shortly after that I was up at the airport chatting with the folks that worked there and checked out their weather station gear. The humidity and dew point came up and someone mentioned monitoring it in that location was a waste of time. In the damp north coast it never varied more than a few percent. Back at the hospital reading the JCAH mandates the median humidity normal in that area was smack in the middle of the required range.

I reported to administration the problem was solved. A few tests established this; my remedial measures had done the job. I tore out the entire system and gave the compressor to the carpenters shop.
 

The Snark

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Somewhat accurate temperature - and other measurements.
(A degree in electronics or metrology strongly suggested)
 

Dry Desert

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Thank you for allowing me to join I'm new to owning jumping spiders I now have 3 , they all have hygrometers/thermometers in their enclosures , and the humidity is kept at between 70-75% but the temp always drops , I read somewhere that hygrometers/ thermometers don't need to be in the enclosures all the time because they aren't waterproof and can be damaged when misting etc , I was wandering are the thermometers that are used in fishtanks (the stick on ones) ok to use in enclosures as I thought I'd get a more accurate temperature reading thank you for any help
One of the best and easiest ways of achieving an accurate temperature reading is with an Infrared Lazer Gun.

They are 100% accurate on all objecty the Lazer is shone on, apart from trying to use for body temperatures, as they are not medically .
specified

I have personally used one for the past 10 years, they are not too expensive, and as you only need a one time purchase they pay for themselves a thousand times over, I don't think I've even changed the battery.

The reptile hobby swear by them and use little else.

I think I paid around £20-25 , they last forever and will give you an instant temperature readout for setting up enclosures, checking temperatures in enclosures if you suspect temperature has dropped, or you suspect your heating devices are not accurate.

Set up your enclosures, check temperatures with the gun, adjust thermostat to required settings, good to go. No waiting for thermometers to stabilise, no wondering if the thermostat probe is in the right place, just check with the gun, makes for a simple life.

As mentioned, the reptile/ amphibian world don't use anything else, not in Europe anyway.
 

The Snark

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One of the best and easiest ways of achieving an accurate temperature reading is with an Infrared Lazer Gun.
Use a piece of copper to measure the temperature of gasses, like air. Allow the copper to normalize for a few minutes depending on it's thickness then zap it with the gun. A light coating of a thin oil will assist in the copper's thermal coefficient.
 

darkness975

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One of the best and easiest ways of achieving an accurate temperature reading is with an Infrared Lazer Gun.

They are 100% accurate on all objecty the Lazer is shone on, apart from trying to use for body temperatures, as they are not medically .
specified

I have personally used one for the past 10 years, they are not too expensive, and as you only need a one time purchase they pay for themselves a thousand times over, I don't think I've even changed the battery.

The reptile hobby swear by them and use little else.

I think I paid around £20-25 , they last forever and will give you an instant temperature readout for setting up enclosures, checking temperatures in enclosures if you suspect temperature has dropped, or you suspect your heating devices are not accurate.

Set up your enclosures, check temperatures with the gun, adjust thermostat to required settings, good to go. No waiting for thermometers to stabilise, no wondering if the thermostat probe is in the right place, just check with the gun, makes for a simple life.

As mentioned, the reptile/ amphibian world don't use anything else, not in Europe anyway.
This
 

Introvertebrate

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One of the best and easiest ways of achieving an accurate temperature reading is with an Infrared Lazer Gun.

They are 100% accurate on all objecty the Lazer is shone on, apart from trying to use for body temperatures, as they are not medically .
specified

I have personally used one for the past 10 years, they are not too expensive, and as you only need a one time purchase they pay for themselves a thousand times over, I don't think I've even changed the battery.

The reptile hobby swear by them and use little else.

I think I paid around £20-25 , they last forever and will give you an instant temperature readout for setting up enclosures, checking temperatures in enclosures if you suspect temperature has dropped, or you suspect your heating devices are not accurate.

Set up your enclosures, check temperatures with the gun, adjust thermostat to required settings, good to go. No waiting for thermometers to stabilise, no wondering if the thermostat probe is in the right place, just check with the gun, makes for a simple life.

As mentioned, the reptile/ amphibian world don't use anything else, not in Europe anyway.
If you shine it on the glass/plastic of the enclosure, is it reading the temperature of the glass, or the contents of the enclosure?

Just answered my own question: "Can infrared thermometers work through glass or clear plastic?
An Infrared thermometer will NOT measure temperature accurately through glass, liquids or other transparent surfaces even though visible light (like a laser) passes through them. If you point an infrared thermometer at a subject through a closed window, you will be measuring the surface temperature of the window itself, not the object you are aiming at."
 

The Snark

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Just answered my own question: "Can infrared thermometers work through glass or clear plastic?
This of course depends on the thermometer. Common IR photosensors don't have the narrow spectrum or compensation capability to negate the interference. If you knew the scale and the specifications of the thermometer you could mathematically compensate.
Much the same as a person staring up at the night sky through our atmosphere. One reason why the Webb was placed well outside the effects of our planet.
 
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Introvertebrate

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This of course depends on the thermometer. Common IR photosensors don't have the narrow spectrum or compensation capability to negate the interference. If you knew the scale and the specifications of the thermometer you could mathematically compensate.
Much the same as a person staring up at the night sky through our atmosphere. One reason why the Webb was placed well outside the effects of our planet.
Mine is designed for a covid symptom testing. Not real high-end.
 

The Snark

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Mine is designed for a covid symptom testing. Not real high-end.
Uhh.... no. I'm reminded of getting a new calibration testing unit in the bio-med shop and the Sup of RT bring over a box full of home use test gadgets also used for medical screening by clerks or receptionists at physician offices and hospitals. His wife worked in some government health agency wanting to know how accurate those things were. Some of the results were hilarious.
Thermometers for use in the US with Celsius gradients +/- 25%, sphygmomanometers that topped out at 150, oxymeters apparently designed to measure atmospheric oxygen content on Mars, pulse counters that could double as seismographs and so on.
RT Sup: "That appears to be measuring the BP accurately if the column was filled with molten lead and this thing would be about right if your patient had quit breathing a few minutes earlier."
 
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Dry Desert

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If you shine it on the glass/plastic of the enclosure, is it reading the temperature of the glass, or the contents of the enclosure?

Just answered my own question: "Can infrared thermometers work through glass or clear plastic?
An Infrared thermometer will NOT measure temperature accurately through glass, liquids or other transparent surfaces even though visible light (like a laser) passes through them. If you point an infrared thermometer at a subject through a closed window, you will be measuring the surface temperature of the window itself, not the object you are aiming at."
Any person with any modicum of common sense knows that if you direct an infrared beam at glass or liquids it will register the temperature of that surface.

Why would you want to check the temperature of glass or liquids. ??

We are talking about measuring the contents of an enclosure for setting up Inverts/ vertebrate correctly, not the Atlantic Ocean.
 

The Snark

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Directing an IR detector at a glass or plastic walled enclosure will show the temperature inside the enclosure minus the K factor +/- the ambient temperature outside the enclosure plus some degree of detection of any objects inside the enclosure it happens to be pointed at. Obviously not particularly reliable or accurate.

K factor: thermal conductivity. Higher K = higher conductivity. Point the IR at your fridge will show you the temperature inside the fridge minus the K factor so allow for a few hundred percent error. If the walls of your fridge happen to be silver plate, the K is 350 to 400 - about the highest conductivity a solid material can get. You don't need to open the door to take the temp inside but of course you have the least economic fridge in the world.

This is why I suggested using a piece of copper as a target inside your enclosure. It has a pretty high K and responds to temperature variations quite quickly. You can attach it to the glass or plastic wall and shoot it from the outside but you will have the K factor of the wall material to calculate.

Basic K factor calculating without the variables. Contact the glass or plastic manufacturer for volumetric density and thermal conductivity. With plastic this may not be available since the materials vary drastically.
1675073784916.png
 
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Introvertebrate

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Any person with any modicum of common sense knows that if you direct an infrared beam at glass or liquids it will register the temperature of that surface.

Why would you want to check the temperature of glass or liquids. ??

We are talking about measuring the contents of an enclosure for setting up Inverts/ vertebrate correctly, not the Atlantic Ocean.
But the minute you open the enclosure, in order to direct the beam at the substrate or animal, some of the heat has already escaped. You'd need some kind of remote sensor in order to determine the inside temperature of a closed container.
 
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Dry Desert

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But the minute you open the enclosure, in order to direct the beam at the substrate or animal, some of the heat has already escaped. You'd need some kind of remote sensor in order to determine the inside temperature of a closed container.
Have you ever set up an enclosure or tested temperatures using one of these ??

Most enclosures have vent holes or even partial openings in the lids , no need to remove the lid in 99% of cases.

The spot beam on the gun will beam down through even very small vent holes as the spot setting beam is very small.

But you know all this don't you ??
 

Introvertebrate

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Have you ever set up an enclosure or tested temperatures using one of these ??

Most enclosures have vent holes or even partial openings in the lids , no need to remove the lid in 99% of cases.

The spot beam on the gun will beam down through even very small vent holes as the spot setting beam is very small.

But you know all this don't you ??
Relax dude. You're so defensive. Brexit got you down or something?
 
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