Theraphosinae sp panama dropping one by one.

[Konstantin Konstantinov]

Hi all
About 5 months ago I purchased 5 slings of the species Theraphosinae sp panama.
They were shipped without heat pack and 4 were a bit cold on arrival with one dead.I left them to warm up on my T shelf and they perked up when I housed them 2 hours later.I got replacement send for the DOA with heat pack and that came in perfect shape..
I housed them in 1oz pot with cross ventilation(few holes arround and 4 on top all 1mm or less),with moist substrate as my other terrestrial NW slings( I keep about 50 ish different slings)and they seem to do well for few weeks and went in premoult.
I lost one of them then about a month after getting them.I though is just a weak sling.All rest doing well for another few moults(They moult every 50 ish days).
Then I had one from eating and being active in 2-3 days went very lethargic, wobbly,curling its legs under and unable to move..I thought it was dehydrated as the enclosure dried out a little more than usual (but not bone dry)before I noticed .I moistened substrate well ,put its carapace over a waterdish and dropped water on its fangs all of those for 3 days and it passed. All rest doing well.
A bout a week ago I rehoused them in 4oz pots with cross ventilation, moist substrate with hides and moss and waterdish .All webbed the enclosures and made they their own.
Now another one is being in the same bad way.
This time I thought it may be too moist.I changed the enclosure.Put mainly dry substrate, flat moist piece of Spaghnum moss to rest the sling on and waterdish. I enlarged the holes for better ventilation. Basically doing the opposite what I did last time out of desperation as I don't think it will make it.
I am at a lost what I am doing wrong and why they keep dropping one by one.
It seems they suddenly go down hill from being well and active in couple of days and always when in premoult.
Any tips on keeping those or how to help my other 2 slings is much appreciated
Pics of old and new enclosures below.
1oz pot enclosure

4oz pot enclosure



@The Grym Reaper

Regards Konstantin

 

[viper69]

I’m curious to see what he thinks. I haven’t had the chance to own these. Gorgeous little species.

Losing any amount is disappointing, sorry to read this.

 

[Konstantin Konstantinov]

A bit of additional information in regards of how I keep them.
My temperature is 20°C ish at its lowest and about 25°C atm with maximum of 30 ish at hottest summer days.

I offer food every 4 days and remove it next day if left uneaten.Odd time they refuse it but most times they take it.I like using small pray items so I use micro or 1st moult crickets.Wait 7 days after moult to feed them.They seem to fill up pretty fast as moult cycles are 50 ish days and they seem to refuse food about 12-15 days before they moult and with that week post moult gives me only few weeks of slings taking food.They usually close themselves while in premoult.
I usually check on them every 2 days and keep substrate moist top to bottom all the time after the first one went down hill after substrate drying out half way.It may have got that wrong and you can see substrate moisture levels in the pics.
This is how I care for all my terrestrial slings.
I keep Pseudhapalopus sp colombia, Cyriocosmus elegans,Cyriocosmus leetzi, D diamantinensis, B emilia ,Neischnocolus sp panama...... and most of them I have since they were well microscopic and my method seem to work well.
If more pics or information is needed will be happy to provide it.
Regards Konstantin

 

[The Grym Reaper]

These are the current setups for mine (this is how I kept the male I raised back when he was a sling too), 2oz deli cups filled with enough topsoil/peat/fine vermiculite for them to burrow if they want to, and a clump of moss with a starter burrow next to it (they've been in there for 5 months so they've moved bits of it around the enclosure and covered some in sub), I keep the sub slightly moist.



Your temps are basically the same range as mine (low-mid 20's in winter, anything up to 33°C in summer), feeding is close enough to what I do (I feed mine every 5 days).

Winter months in the UK can be a bit screwy for tarantulas due to things drying out much faster than they normally would (naturally low humidity combined with constant heating).

I usually check on them every 2 days and keep substrate moist top to bottom all the time after the first one went down hill after substrate drying out half way.It may have got that wrong and you can see substrate moisture levels in the pics.

This could be a possibility. Remember, too much moisture is just as bad as not enough, you basically want the sub to be damp to the touch but not wet enough that you could squeeze water out of it (juvies/adults are basically fine with you periodically overflowing the water dish to moisten the sub around it), I pipette a couple of drops of water down the sides into the sub at the opposite end from the burrow entrance when I feed (so every 5 days).

 

[Smotzer]

I dont own this species, but in reading it I am not really finding anything that jumps out at me like "oh yup that'll do it"...but are you giving them any depth to burrow?

I hadnt really read anything about them being notably fragile, but like Grym said maybe it was an issue of too much moisture. Sometimes I like giving a bit of depth to substrate to help with being able to give a slight moisture gradient, should they choose when they need to stay closer to the bottom or on top by burrowing, and helps keep it a little more constant than very shallow by drying out quickily or being easily over saturated. This may be pointless to say if you do indeed hhave some depth for burrowing in there.

 

[Konstantin Konstantinov]

Hi
they burrow just fine if they want to.I am having 2 different species of Cyriocosmus in my care and they all have been burrowed since they came raiseing substrate level almost to the top.
I have noticed that my Theraphosinae sp panama do not burrow deep but rather make burrow webbing dirt and moss as seen in my first picture in the small enclosure. Now in the bigger setups they are doing exactly the same.
In regards of moisture since the one that dried I have been very pedantic on how their enclosures moisture levels are as of all my slings these are my most treasured ones.I am not overdoing it what I mean is I keep a close eye on things and adjust as and when needed.The last one was my strongest sling and moisture levels were as The Grym Reaper described. Main portion of substrate not too wet with the fluffed bits on top and arround of their hides entrances left to dry as there is no point in trying to saturate those as they dry quickly anyway. This sling went down hill after I moved them in bigger enclosure with deeper substrate and better ventilation as holes are bigger.
What puzzles me is they go from hero to zero very rapidly, only in 1-2days. One day they eat and all is good and a day and a half later they curl and go lethargic and stiff.
Contamination is very unlikely as I have habit to wash my hands with hot water(I am chef so can tolerate very hot water) and no detergent very good before I touch my spiders or any utensils I use for them stored in a dedicated box.
A fried of mine suggested it may be batch of sickly slings that manifest at different times of development but no way to confirm that.
I have about 50 ish NW terrestrial slings that I care for and all are well and growing strong.
Thanks to anyone part of the discussion for your thoughts.

@CommanderBacon
I wander what your thoughts are as in one of your posts you mentioned a massive die off of slings of this species.
Regards Konstantin

 

[viper69]

Hi
they burrow just fine if they want to.I am having 2 different species of Cyriocosmus in my care and they all have been burrowed since they came raiseing substrate level almost to the top.
I have noticed that my Theraphosinae sp panama do not burrow deep but rather make burrow webbing dirt and moss as seen in my first picture in the small enclosure. Now in the bigger setups they are doing exactly the same.
In regards of moisture since the one that dried I have been very pedantic on how their enclosures moisture levels are as of all my slings these are my most treasured ones.I am not overdoing it what I mean is I keep a close eye on things and adjust as and when needed.The last one was my strongest sling and moisture levels were as The Grym Reaper described. Main portion of substrate not too wet with the fluffed bits on top and arround of their hides entrances left to dry as there is no point in trying to saturate those as they dry quickly anyway. This sling went down hill after I moved them in bigger enclosure with deeper substrate and better ventilation as holes are bigger.
What puzzles me is they go from hero to zero very rapidly, only in 1-2days. One day they eat and all is good and a day and a half later they curl and go lethargic and stiff.
Contamination is very unlikely as I have habit to wash my hands with hot water(I am chef so can tolerate very hot water) and no detergent very good before I touch my spiders or any utensils I use for them stored in a dedicated box.
A fried of mine suggested it may be batch of sickly slings that manifest at different times of development but no way to confirm that.
I have about 50 ish NW terrestrial slings that I care for and all are well and growing strong.
Thanks to anyone part of the discussion for your thoughts.

@CommanderBacon
I wander what your thoughts are as in one of your posts you mentioned a massive die off of slings of this species.
Regards Konstantin

I only point to moisture levels, and I’m not so sure that was the specific cause. I’ve had many different Ts do hero to zero. Never could pinpoint the cause.

Always felt something internal went wrong, what- don’t know.

These have become very pricey across the pond so you experience could be useful.

I have had sacmates of an Avic that died identically at the same time

 

[Tarantuland]

Best of luck. Any death is disappointing. Are these guys as expensive in Europe as they are in America?

 

[Konstantin Konstantinov]

I only point to moisture levels, and I’m not so sure that was the specific cause. I’ve had many different Ts do hero to zero. Never could pinpoint the cause.

Always felt something internal went wrong, what- don’t know.

These have become very pricey across the pond so you experience could be useful.

I have had sacmates of an Avic that died identically at the same time

Hi
you may be on the right path there with the internal stuff as it happened to lose all 3 when in premoult.I don't know if something with the new exoskeleton went wrong or sth.
It looks very very similar to dehydration( but is definitely not at least in two of the 3 cases)in the way they behave when it hits them but no matter what I try to give them a drink it doesn't help.I did try every trick in the book.Once they start showing signs is pretty much death sentence.
Another thing is that they try to hold higer ground for some reason till they roll down from it.I found last one on its back and thought its about to moult 2 weeks earlier due to warmer weather lately but after few hours and I actually noticed it was a little slower and wobbly when opened the lid 24h before that when it took turn for the worse.I sort of saw it comming but unfortunately nothing I do works.
I did lose one Avicularia sling in the beginning of 2020 it was quite similar story and happened after it made the moulting tube so close to its moult.
Regards Konstantin

 

[Edan bandoot]

Bad genetics maybe

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Are these guys as expensive in Europe as they are in America?

Na, your prices are generally ridiculous compared to ours, they're still like £50 ($68) a pop for slings

 

[viper69]

Na, your prices are generally ridiculous compared to ours, they're still like £50 ($68) a pop for slings

Dude I’ve seen them for 225$ just a week ago!! No way for me. I’ll wait till they are 60$ again, and if they never go down, won’t buy them.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Dude I’ve seen them for 225$ just a week ago!! No way for me. I’ll wait till they are 60$ again, and if they never go down, won’t buy them.

I paid £35 for my first one. I point blank refuse to spend more than £50 on a single tarantula which is why I mostly buy slings.

 

[Craig73]

I paid $125 a piece for mine. Best believe they get vip service. They’re just now hitting ~.5”.

 

[Konstantin Konstantinov]

I paid £35 for my first one. I point blank refuse to spend more than £50 on a single tarantula which is why I mostly buy slings.

Last I saw them for £60 sold in Uk but they went so fast I now am not so sure I actually saw them or just my mind was playing.Before that they were £50 and I got mine for £42.
Where did you get your latest slings from pal?
Just wandering if they are same sack as mine.
Regards Konstantin

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Where did you get your latest slings from pal?

Spider Planet, they're probably from the same sac, a few people got them in from the same source (I think Germany but memory gremlins) around that time.

 

[Konstantin Konstantinov]

Hi
I got mine from Jakub from Poland(and he still have them in stock but unwilling to ship after Brexit)but Emil got them in at around same time so possibly same sack.
Regards Konstantin

Hi all
The little one has been in death curl and motionless more or less since my OP but alive.
I can now rule out impaction as it pooped yesterday while spazing with its legs on the spot .
I keep putting its mouth parts over the waterdish once a day and flipping it on its back once a day to put a drop of water on its mouth and flip it back after 30 min or so.
Not sure what else I can do and hope for a miracle moult or sth.
It is in a bad way but will not stop till its dead for sure.
Will keep the thread updated in as much detail as I can with the progress of this one and the other 2 that are still in good shape for future reference on the care of this species.
Regards Konstantin

Hi all
Quick update for those interested.
The little one is clinging on dear life and not dead yet.Im thinking something internal is going wrong as its not responsive to any environmental changes.I have kept it in dry enclosure with a moist flat piece of Spaghnum moss underneath it as drinking source for few days to see if it will make a difference but it didn't.Its back in an enclosure with very slightly moist substrate and only adding few drops water on the moss bits arround the sling as needed but not overdoing it.
I flip it twice per day to drop water on its mouth parts.It is still unable to flip itself on its legs.Not currently curled up as tight as it was 2 days ago.When on its back its
legs keep twitching sort of erratic.
The other two slings are eating and behaving as they should seeking the safety of their hides when pots are disturbed.
Regards Konstantin

Hi all
been giving the little one water twice per day on its mouth parts and adding few drops of water only on the moss when it needs it.
Also blocked its hide with a dry moss ball so can keep an eye on it.
Still holding on.Had a good surprise today.
It went for a stroll around the enclosure and could see it putting web down. It is still quite a bit wobbly on its feet and slightly stiff in its movement but still was a good thing to see.Its nearing its moult and Im a bit worried will it be able to make it through.
Pic from today.


Regards Konstantin

 

[Konstantin Konstantinov]

Well another update.
As I was thinking an hour after my post the little trooper was on its back moulting.An hour later was stuck.Two front legs,pedipalps and chelicerae absolute nightmare. I applied some water with a small paint brush and started helping to free it.I wish I intervened sooner as the exo has already started to harden.Managed to get the sling to cast the stuck legs off and focused to try to safe the pedipalps.They were very stiff and badly stuck so I made the sling cast them off too unfortunately. Then the real work begun.It took me 2 hours to free the fangs and the chelicerae.The chelicerae was like super glued and give me loads of trouble. Do not know how much damage I have caused in the process but I managed at the end to free the little one completely leaving him with 5 legs.
I left the little one to rest for now and tomorrow will give it a drink if it makes it trough the night.
Will post another update tomorrow to let you know how it went.
Regards Konstantin

Hi all
So far so good.The little one made it trough the night.Gave it a drink this morning and will see how it goes from here.
Regards Konstantin

Hi all
just got back from work and found something very unfortunate.Somehow the little one has managed to reverse itself in the waterdish(Its not fallen in it as its not possible. It literally need to reverse park itself in it)No idea how it managed that as its pretty tight fit.Its waterdish is only a small tatoo ink pot with diameter of 8mm and the sling leg span is way bigger.By doing so its abdomen was submerged in the water.I took it out but its abdomen is soaking wet and seems motionless atm.It may have been there all day for what I know as I had a 12 hour shift.Its a shame as if I was not working today this would have been caught in no time as I keep a very close eye on him/her .
Suicide by drowning itself was not the thing I expected from the poor little fella .Never thought of that dish being a hazard
Will check on it again in the morning and post whats going on but its not looking good atm.
Absolutely gutted
Regards Konstantin

 

[Konstantin Konstantinov]

Hi all
As suspected the little one is now gone.
Sad day but at least I tried my best.
I am sorry that the thread went in so negative direction.
Hopefully the two slings that are left and doing well atm will help to get some positivity in future updates.
Regards Konstantin

 

[Jess S]

Really sorry Konstantin. I know it's a hard loss for you to swallow. Hopefully the other 2 slings are the strong ones, as I would hate for you to have to go through that again.

I still feel gutted about my E parvulus sling last year, that strangely decided to attempt moulting hanging from the lid like a huntsman, of course it got stuck. Despite helping it out if the moult, it failed to thrive and died several weeks later. Some losses especially of a special species, really hurt.