theraphosa Apophysis help

S

Spiral_Stairs

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
79
I don't have any pictures but that is exactly what my T. apophysis looked like right after her molt. The males are VERY purple when they mature.
 
Fran

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,531
Yes, thats a t apophysis. Exactly how mine look like, only better :)
 
Jmugleston

Jmugleston

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Messages
1,576
How about these to show how different they can look depending on flash, age, molt cycle, etc.










 
A

AphonopelmaTX

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
1,891
Firstly, I'm not sure if I should post this here or on the old thread discussing the same, but after reviewing (only the summary at this time) Tinter's 1991 description of Psuedotheraphosa apophysis and Bertani's 2001 paper synonymizing Psuedotheraphosa with Theraphosa, it's surprising to note that Bertani found that both T. apophysis and T. blondi both have stridulating bristles on the coxa of legs I and II, both have type III urticating bristles on the dorsum of the abdomen, and both have very similar papal bulb and spermathecae morphology. These characters were the basis of placing Psuedotheraphosa as a junior synonym of Theraphosa. The only difference in adults from what I can see from Bertani 2001 is that the male of T. apophysis has the tibial spurs and the purple coloration on the carapace and legs.

Obviously T. apophysis has smaller leg and carapace dimensions but only by a couple of mm (Tinter, 1991). Again, it's obvious that juvenile T. blondi and T. apophysis patterns and coloration are drastically different however T. sp "burgundy" juvies seems to incorporate a little bit of both (like the two patterns were fused). See where I'm going with this?

At this time without examining huge numbers of both T. apophysis and T. blondi adults and juveniles, I can't really conclude from the papers I have that there really are any definitive differences between the two species within the immature instars or between adult females. Just mature males. I don't even know what the heck a Theraphosa sp. "burgundy" is except the pictures make them appear to be a T. blondi/ T. apophysis fusion. I'm not going to say hybrid because that's a totally different matter and too bold a statement to make without being educated in the subject of genetics.

So in my opinion, a definitive picture ID on a Theraphosa species would come from an early instar and not from a later or even an adult female. I would really like for someone to totally break down their mental methodology for determining a Theraphosa species based on a picture or even another similar looking Theraphosine such as a Pamphobeteus species.

- Lonnie
 
Fran

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,531
Actually Lonnie,
apreciating a lot your input,,,I just cant begin to see anything similar between Theraphosa Apophysis and T sp burgundy.

I have several females of each, and in person, they look totally different.
Different coloration, different lenght on segments, different thickness, sifferent shapes...
Im not even sure on the bulbs...
 
Terry D

Terry D

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
733
Fran, +1 :clap:

Lonnie, For one thing, slings are easy to separate. Slings of T apophysis have all feet pink. T sp "burgundy" (or T spinipes) have only 2 front feet either side pink. I'm not up on apophysis but from pics they always look more reddish to me than any burgundy- for another, anyway. :)
 
A

AphonopelmaTX

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
1,891
Fran,

I do agree that T. apophysis is different from T. blondi and T. sp "burgundy", there's no way to deny that. I didn't state though that T. apophysis and T. sp. looked alike, I stated T. sp. "burgundy" look like a fusion of T. blondi AND T. apophysis. In other words, might share each other's genes. For clarity's sake, I will say that T. sp "burgundy" look more like T. blondi than T. apophysis. But really? It hasn't crossed anyone's mind that T. sp "burgundy" might share a lot of the genes between T. apophysis and T. blondi? The occurrence of "some pink feet but not all", the lack of tibial apophysis in males, etc. doesn't spark the imagination any on all three species relationships?

- Lonnie
 
Fran

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,531
AphonopelmaTX said:
Fran,

I do agree that T. apophysis is different from T. blondi and T. sp "burgundy", there's no way to deny that. I didn't state though that T. apophysis and T. sp. looked alike, I stated T. sp. "burgundy" look like a fusion of T. blondi AND T. apophysis. In other words, might share each other's genes. For clarity's sake, I will say that T. sp "burgundy" look more like T. blondi than T. apophysis. But really? It hasn't crossed anyone's mind that T. sp "burgundy" might share a lot of the genes between T. apophysis and T. blondi? The occurrence of "some pink feet but not all", the lack of tibial apophysis in males, etc. doesn't spark the imagination any on all three species relationships?

- Lonnie
Click to expand...

Yeah... no doubt but, apparently, they are not a fusion whatsoever. :confused:
At least, thats what the "good" sources stated.
 
Fran

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,531
AphonopelmaTX said:
Who are these sources anyway and what do they say? :?

- Lonnie
Click to expand...
Rick West knows who are doing the revision, and hes quite sure that is not a fussion and is not a blondi.
It appears to be a 3rd specie put on the wrong genus.
 
Terry D

Terry D

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
733
Fran said:
Rick West knows who are doing the revision, and hes quite sure that is not a fussion and is not a blondi.
It appears to be a 3rd specie put on the wrong genus.
Click to expand...
Yep, Original specimen evidently laid around for x years labelled as Lasiodora spinipes. :)
 
NevularScorpion

NevularScorpion

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
916
thanks guys for sharing pics and info I'm not confused anymore, I almost bought a t burgandy for the price of a t apophysis lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top