The LPS conundrum

[aprilmayjunebugs]

I've read plenty of threads like this, T lover sees a tarantula at a big chain pet store where they never seem to be housed properly, buys it because they want to save the poor thing, and store can now just fill that space with another that will also not be housed right. My dilemma is no different, but let me hash it out anyway.

We regularly go to our local one for just a few crickets for the smaller finicky eaters, never spending more than 1 dollar. Well, this time they have what is labeled "Zebra Knee Tarantula", obviously Aphonopelma Seemani around 3 inches tucked behind a fake plant (I couldn't even find it at first, thought it was sold already) on an inch of bark chips with at least 10 inches of head room, a super shallow water dish, a giant log hide, and a price tag of $49.99.

I ask the kid who got our crickets, "Is there a tarantula in there?" "I think so, oh yeah he's back there." I get to talking with him, telling him that substrate isn't appropriate for any tarantula, they should be kept on this stuff (pointing to another case with coco fiber) and that this particular species is actually fossorial and should have at least 10 inches of it to dig and make tunnels, but I understand why they wouldn't house it like that because no one is going to walk in and go "OMG, that box of dirt is what's been missing in my life!" I didn't mention the water dish but I wish I would've because that's something they could change if they cared to. The kid clearly has no authority over anything, but he seemed very receptive of the info and said he'd pass it on. Then we got to talking about the White's tree frogs, because he had bought one recently, and he showed me some pictures of the frog and his enclosure because I said I'd like to get a couple someday, so we started to build a rapport of sorts. I'll make sure to ask him how the frog is doing next time we're in.

So here is where I'm struggling. Although not high on my wish list, I do want one of this species eventually as my first fossorial for the experience. I can get this same species from my favorite local dealer less than half an hour away, an inch to an inch and a half bigger, for $24 no shipping required. But I fear this little guy will die of dehydration, a fall, or stress before someone buys it, or worse, that someone who knows little to nothing will buy it and think that's how it's supposed to be kept, also leading to it's death. So if I'm going to save it, I have to do it soon, but I am not willing to pay that much for it.

What would you do?

 

[Poonjab]

Ask if they will price match other store. I did same thing with same species. I didn’t want another but bought it anyways.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

That's a tough one. And ultimately it's up to you. Obviously we don't want to support pet stores that neglect their animals or don't take care of them properly, but at the same time it's very difficult because you have empathy for the poor creatures. I say go with your gut, and what you think is right personally. Even though you probably won't get much of a response,you could always try writing to corporate, or talking to the store manager (they probably have no clue that they're caring for the spider incorrectly). I 'rescued' a G. pulchripes sling from a pet store a few months ago. It was in a plastic vial with no substrate and no water, almost dead from dehydration. I know most people on here would frown upon it, but I just couldn't let the little guy die. It made me too sad. I chewed out the employee in the store that was supposed to be caring for them, and wrote a polite but matter-of-fact letter to corporate. It was a smaller-chain reptile shop. I didn't expect a response. But surprisingly, I did actually get a response, and the next time I went to that shop, the spiders were kept in much better condition. So little things we do actually can make a difference sometimes. Do what you personally feel is right.

 

[Frogdaddy]

Is the LPS an independent mom and pop store or is it a big chain store?

 

[EnigmaNyx]

Same thing happened to us for both of our A Avics. Honestly we don’t want to support it but it’s hard when it’s right in your face. It happened again recently, where one of their A Avics they put in the store was a gravid female and they were giving away the whole sac. It wasn’t right in front of me or I probably would’ve had God knows how many A Avic slings.

 

[aprilmayjunebugs]

Ask if they will price match other store. I did same thing with same species. I didn’t want another but bought it anyways.

I think that's what what I'll do. I'm just going to ask them how long they've had it, show them the website with the $24 dollar one, and say if you can match that I'll take it.

I 'rescued' a G. pulchripes sling from a pet store a few months ago. It was in a plastic vial with no substrate and no water, almost dead from dehydration.

No substrate or water?!? Infuriating! I'd have to do exactly what you did. It's great you were able to make a difference in their practices, thats a win for everyone. Thanks for the advice.

Is the LPS an independent mom and pop store or is it a big chain store?

It's one of the two big evil chain stores. We do have an independently run store in a nearby city that does seem to know what they're doing but they jack up the prices so much so much so that I will probably never buy a tarantula there when I have better options. They usually have a good variety of other things though, and the employees are knowledgeable and helpful. Plus you can hold ferrets

Same thing happened to us for both of our A Avics. Honestly we don’t want to support it but it’s hard when it’s right in your face.

I remember reading that. And yeah, that's where I'm at right now, it's especially hard because the fossorial nature is so drastically different from what they can and will provide, every day could be it's last.

It happened again recently, where one of their A Avics they put in the store was a gravid female and they were giving away the whole sac. It wasn’t right in front of me or I probably would’ve had God knows how many A Avic slings.

If that was right in front of me, guess what I'd have

 

[Frogdaddy]

It's one of the two big evil chain stores. We do have an independently run store in a nearby city that does seem to know what they're doing but they jack up the prices so much so much so that I will probably never buy a tarantula there when I have better options. They usually have a good variety of other things though, and the employees are knowledgeable and helpful. Plus you can hold ferrets

I wouldn't touch it. Here's the unfortunate news. The big chain store procedures aren't going to change because you talked to one of the teenage employees. More than likely they'll be gone in 6 mos and there will be a new employee taking care of the T's incorrectly.
If you were to purchase the T from the store (most likely a big chain store will not price match) then their computer POS system will just order another tarantula to take the place of the one you just bought. It too will be housed incorrectly and you're back to square one. Not to mention it's yet another.imported WC tarantula depleting natural populations.
I know it's a tough pill to swallow. We all love our T's and we hate to see any T suffer or be housed incorrectly, but honestly nothing you can do is going to change any of this

 

[aprilmayjunebugs]

The big chain store procedures aren't going to change because you talked to one of the teenage employees. More than likely they'll be gone in 6 mos and there will be a new employee taking care of the T's incorrectly.
If you were to purchase the T from the store (most likely a big chain store will not price match) then their computer POS system will just order another tarantula to take the place of the one you just bought. It too will be housed incorrectly and you're back to square one. I know it's a tough pill to swallow. We all love our T's and we hate to see any T suffer or be housed incorrectly, but honestly nothing you can do is going to change any of this

I'm aware, which is why I didn't go on and on lecturing the kid about it. Even if I were to raise hell all the way up to corporate, I know there's no hope, even if all of us here were to band together in PETA like fashion, there's very little chance anything would be done. I was surprised enough that the employee genuinely seemed to care and appreciate the knowledge, so maybe possibly he will at least pass it on to whoever purchases it if he can. Most of the employees there have been there awhile, that kid in particular is at least pre-pandemic as I do remember what his face looks like, so they've at least for that going for them. But yes I know I couldn't have any impact on anything, buying it won't save the lives of the future stock and next month there will be another one I'll feel sorry for. Who knows, maybe by the time we go back it will be sold, and if not I'll pitch them the half off deal. If they won't do it I won't buy it.

Not to mention it's yet another.imported WC tarantula depleting natural populations.

Missed that edit and forgot to address that detail, thanks for mentioning it. I guess I assumed it to be CB because of it's size but in reality it could be WC and I doubt i could get a reliable answer on that one.

 

[CommanderBacon]

It's not a good idea to support the big chain stores bringing in wc animals that they don't properly care for, obvs, and you know that, but I was faced with a similar situation last year, and I think I had PMS because I got all weepy thinking about the A seemanni happily living her whole life in the wild and then being plucked from her home by some rando T harvester and sold to Underground Reptiles, who in turn sold her in a wholesale lot to Petwhatever, where she was on an inch of wet substrate, clearly unhappy, surrounded by six crickets. I just went for it. She was marked down, and I could tell she was a female because she was standing on tiptoes and her ventral side was plastered up against the enclosure glass. $30 for an mf A seemanni I didn't think was too bad.

Nobody wanted to catch her for me, so I was like, just give me the container. And they gave me one of the cardboard boxes they use for feeder mice, so I booped her in the butt and she walked right into it. Poor old girl.

Anyway, I informed them that they were keeping her poorly and made some recommendations about how to better care for their Ts in the future. When they got new ones in, they actually did a better job and wanted to show me. The spiders are still kept on very little substrate for display purposes, but it's not drenched anymore, and they don't leave the crickets in there. I also email their corporate offices regularly to give them crap about it, but the bottom line is that they simply do not care. Hobbyists aren't going to convince large chain pet stores to stop carrying Ts, since tarantula hobbyists aren't their target demographic. They're aiming to sell them to casual shoppers, and they make money off of selling whoever buys the tarantulas a bunch of overpriced supplies they don't need.

I'm glad to say that I haven't bought another one from them, but I get it.

 

[aprilmayjunebugs]

It's not a good idea to support the big chain stores bringing in wc animals that they don't properly care for, obvs, and you know that, but I was faced with a similar situation last year, and I think I had PMS because I got all weepy thinking about the A seemanni happily living her whole life in the wild and then being plucked from her home by some rando T harvester and sold to Underground Reptiles, who in turn sold her in a wholesale lot to Petwhatever, where she was on an inch of wet substrate, clearly unhappy, surrounded by six crickets. I just went for it. She was marked down, and I could tell she was a female because she was standing on tiptoes and her ventral side was plastered up against the enclosure glass. $30 for an mf A seemanni I didn't think was too bad.

Nobody wanted to catch her for me, so I was like, just give me the container. And they gave me one of the cardboard boxes they use for feeder mice, so I booped her in the butt and she walked right into it. Poor old girl.

Anyway, I informed them that they were keeping her poorly and made some recommendations about how to better care for their Ts in the future. When they got new ones in, they actually did a better job and wanted to show me. The spiders are still kept on very little substrate for display purposes, but it's not drenched anymore, and they don't leave the crickets in there. I also email their corporate offices regularly to give them crap about it, but the bottom line is that they simply do not care. Hobbyists aren't going to convince large chain pet stores to stop carrying Ts, since tarantula hobbyists aren't their target demographic. They're aiming to sell them to casual shoppers, and they make money off of selling whoever buys the tarantulas a bunch of overpriced supplies they don't need.

I'm glad to say that I haven't bought another one from them, but I get it.

Thank you so much for your input, I commend your efforts to make them change their ways. It's awesome to hear that you were able to make a difference in that store and that they wanted to show you that they took your advice to heart, progress! It's such a tough call because I know that all I can do is be a voice for those Ts that can't speak for themselves, that no matter what I do in this situation they will continue to have bad practices, which I expressed in my original post I get why they do it that way. Even if it were a G. porteri on too little sub or an A. avic with a sponge in it's water dish, I would surely point it out and bestow my knowledge upon whoever would listen but I wouldn't expect anything to change. Those two scenarios would be easier to pass on since they're not as life threatening as I feel this poor seemanis is.

The thought had totally occurred to me that we might have to cup it ourselves, thankfully I will have help with that one!

I admit I had forgotten to consider whether it was wild caught or not. If I could ask you a couple questions, is that your only WC, and have you experienced any issues with her/them regarding this? I'm planning on trying to get it half off, but I still have time to weigh the pros and cons.

 

[CommanderBacon]

Thank you so much for your input, I commend your efforts to make them change their ways. It's awesome to hear that you were able to make a difference in that store and that they wanted to show you that they took your advice to heart, progress! It's such a tough call because I know that all I can do is be a voice for those Ts that can't speak for themselves, that no matter what I do in this situation they will continue to have bad practices, which I expressed in my original post I get why they do it that way. Even if it were a G. porteri on too little sub or an A. avic with a sponge in it's water dish, I would surely point it out and bestow my knowledge upon whoever would listen but I wouldn't expect anything to change. Those two scenarios would be easier to pass on since they're not as life threatening as I feel this poor seemanis is.

The thought had totally occurred to me that we might have to cup it ourselves, thankfully I will have help with that one!

I admit I had forgotten to consider whether it was wild caught or not. If I could ask you a couple questions, is that your only WC, and have you experienced any issues with her/them regarding this? I'm planning on trying to get it half off, but I still have time to weigh the pros and cons.

I'm fairly certain she was wc, as I heard from a higher level Petwhatever employee that they purchased their Ts wholesale from UGR, who are known for selling wild caught specimens. From the numbers of people who have purchased curly hair Ts from Petwhatever which later go on to produce a sac, I'd say it's likely that most if not all of their specimens are WC.

So, I'm certain I have a few WC specimens other than my A seemanni girl, although none of them were knowingly purchased as wc at the time. I've been lucky to never have experienced an issue with parasites, but I'm careful to keep suspect WC specimens separate from the rest of my collection for a while just in case.

 

[aprilmayjunebugs]

'm fairly certain she was wc, as I heard from a higher level Petwhatever employee that they purchased their Ts wholesale from UGR, who are known for selling wild caught specimens. From the numbers of people who have purchased curly hair Ts from Petwhatever which later go on to produce a sac, I'd say it's likely that most if not all of their specimens are WC.

So, I'm certain I have a few WC specimens other than my A seemanni girl, although none of them were knowingly purchased as wc at the time. I've been lucky to never have experienced an issue with parasites, but I'm careful to keep suspect WC specimens separate from the rest of my collection for a while just in case.

Appreciated, I'll definitely ask and if there's any uncertainty I will keep it separate from the others for a while. If I get it.

 

[Matt Man]

as a graphic designer, one of the big chains is actually a client. I should query into who does their Inverts and see if they are open to some advice

 

[aprilmayjunebugs]

as a graphic designer, one of the big chains is actually a client. I should query into who does their Inverts and see if they are open to some advice

You should. Maybe you could even design and pitch a whole new display system. It would be nice if they at least wouldn't sell species they can't house even semi appropriately.

 

[aprilmayjunebugs]

So my man went for crickets yesterday. When he came home he said they didn't have the seemani anymore, they had another one in it's place, a pink toe something he said, but they want $150 for that one and that they didn't change anything about the enclosure. I'm thinking wow that's a lot for an avic and then he shows me the picture. I immediately recognize it's a Theraphosa apophysis, still pretty small because the last two leg segments are still pink. It's actually $50 cheaper than what my local dealer has them listed for. I am not about to spend that much on supporting their bad practices but I hope someone buys it before it goes splat or has a bad molt on that unsatisfactory substrate. I am going to keep harping on the employees every time I'm in there, and I'm considering writing some emails as well.