The Grammostola pulchra myth

[Nokturnal1980]

To answer your question in part reference the post above yours. (Post #20)

Now to add to it, my GBB is 3yrs in my care and has produced 2 sacs. She is just dandy. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Yes, I noticed that post slipped in while I was typing rather slowly- sorry to be slightly repetitive. What was the state of the two sacs produced? Were the sacs of average size with average survival rates?

It's fascinating that you achieved that kind of growth rate with a G. pulchra.

 

[TalonAWD]

Yes, I noticed that post slipped in while I was typing rather slowly- sorry to be slightly repetitive. What was the state of the two sacs produced? Were the sacs of average size with average survival rates?

It's fascinating that you achieved that kind of growth rate with a G. pulchra.

First sac was infertile. Second sac was 100% successful with 100% survival rate. I'm currently selling gorgeous GBB's

You havent seen my videos??? Shame on you!

EDIT: I must add the time between both breedings was 7 months

 

[NevularScorpion]

that is awesome bro, thanks for sharing us your experience. I will increase my temps too to 85 .

 

[TalonAWD]

that is awesome bro, thanks for sharing us your experience. I will increase my temps too to 85 .

Bear in mind with increasing temps, you also have to increase the misting as to prevent dehydration. Higher temps will cause much faster evaporation. I have water dishes that dry out sometimes in 3 days! (When the temps hit 90F Plus). So don't raise the temps and forget about them. I look at my T's first thing when I get up, right after work, than right before going to bed....3 X's a day. (Sometimes more)

With cooler temps you can get lazy and not worry as much.

For my larger enclosures I mist below the substrate level using a syringe. That way water can evaporate into the air through the substrate.

 

[TalonAWD]

Ok I will say this...
I have the ultra rare Maraca cabocla slings. I have ALOT. And I have them in controled cubicles in my T room. Now for the one set I have 5th instars and then I have others that ARE STILL 2ND INSTAR. All with the controled environments I put them in. (Note my T room has grown and been updated since that pic)

Heres a picture to back this up. I just took out my 2nd instar Maraca and 5th instar Maraca. Both were born from the same sac (no other sac in the US) One was in controled cooler temps with controlled feedings. Other one was living the good life.

Enjoy!

Hint: There are two Maraca cabocla tarantulas in the pic below. You probably need to look hard at the upper left corner.

 

[xhexdx]

I'm not sure Steve was out to create a science experiment the likes of which even you could understand Joe but was more so trying to see how fast he could grow his one female that he was keeping for no other reason than to satisfy himself, not you. I think given the fact that the G pulchra has a huge reputation among enthusiasts for being slow growing this does prove, without a doubt, that it is possible to create much higher than average growth rates. I think what Steve has done is awesome. Why don't you create your own experiment Joe and actually have something positive to share instead of constantly attempting to falsify something for being what it was never intended to be? That would be a welcome change.

You're completely missing the point. Please re-read my posts and take your predisposition of my 'out to get everybody' mentality out of the equation, and you might get it.

If Steve was only in it to satisfy himself, why post this at all?

Saying that he's proving, without a doubt, that it is possible to create higher than average growth rates is still a stretch when you're only using one specimen. Besides that, it's pretty common knowledge among keepers that if you increase temps and increase food consumption, the spider grows faster. No surprise there.

I'll say this again, in case you missed it:

I am not saying Talon's spiders don't grow faster than an average keeper's spiders. I'm saying the claim that they aren't fast growers is invalid unless you perform the same experiment on a fast-growing species. Excuse me for trying to clear up using a faulty experiment to debunk the 'myth'. No offense intended to Talon with that statement - as I said, he does have a knack for growing them quickly.

Regarding long-term effects of this growth jump-start:

Now to add to it, my GBB is 3yrs in my care and has produced 2 sacs. She is just dandy. Nothing out of the ordinary.

3 years is hardly any time to tell if it's going to shorten her life span. I'm sure since you've already been in the hobby for a while, that you will still be in the hobby and be able to post if and when she (and your pulchras, and your other jump-started spiders) do die?

I generally do not keep every single specimen. Sometimes life gets in the way and I sell them, and start all over. I keep them as a hobby, and so this means I trade them, buy new ones, sell old ones etc. They are not pets to me where some would get extremely attached to one and never ever get rid of them. So far my oldest specimen in my care is the GBB. That is 3 yrs of ownership.
I don't keep them to see how long they live, i keep them for enjoyment. When i get bored, I change it up. When I need money i sell them off. When I want new ones i buy more. I personally am not worried about how long they live as if it dies, i get another one or I breed them to continue the saga (as in my GBB)
So in my 11 years, I have had LOTS of Tarantula's, But in the 11 years, I have not kept 1 tarantula.

Oh...

 

[TalonAWD]

If Steve was only in it to satisfy himself, why post this at all?

To share the wealth. Though you may know this, many do not obviously because I still get PM's asking me how do I do it, and whats my secret.

Saying that he's proving, without a doubt, that it is possible to create higher than average growth rates is still a stretch when you're only using one specimen. Besides that, it's pretty common knowledge among keepers that if you increase temps and increase food consumption, the spider grows faster. No surprise there.

Again, not many know this. Some even complain about how slow their specimens grow. Sometimes you just need to show people facts to to really amaze them into beleiving.

I am not saying Talon's spiders don't grow faster than an average keeper's spiders. I'm saying the claim that they aren't fast growers is invalid unless you perform the same experiment on a fast-growing species. Excuse me for trying to clear up using a faulty experiment to debunk the 'myth'. No offense intended to Talon with that statement - as I said, he does have a knack for growing them quickly.

Give me a list of fast growers and I will see if I have a record of their molt cycles for you. And this was never an experiment. Just my normal routine as with all my specimens. I just chose to show this one due to its popularity.

Regarding long-term effects of this growth jump-start:
3 years is hardly any time to tell if it's going to shorten her life span. I'm sure since you've already been in the hobby for a while, that you will still be in the hobby and be able to post if and when she (and your pulchras, and your other jump-started spiders) do die?

Theres not many people that keep their specimens till they die. This is over rated. Seriously, the hobby will live on even if specimens die. Everyone has their own opinions as to how they want to keep specimens in their hobby. I keep them for enjoyment, others collect to have them all, others use them for breeding, and others may try to make money off them. Why judge one person for their methods when there are many ways to play the game. You don't like it, do it your way. But for me, I like to see colors and in some cases breed. Buying a sling at a lower cost than using my skills to accelerate growth is just another way in playing the Hobby. It just so happens that with tarantulas, it can be done. Yes, fast growth is not magic with these creatures. Its just realizing that it can be done and doing the method to acheive it. And if it can be done, than it will be done by many and not just me. And for those people that realize that it can be done and see the method with facts/experience, (And even with pictures!! HA!! ) they will be informed. Then they too can do it if they feel its what they want.

I just decided that since I know this so called "Secret", that may be common knowledge to you Mr. "I know everything" but as I have stated, obviously not so common knowledge since I get asked about it frequently, I would share it. And in this thread I speak on just one specimen but people want to know more. And more specimens come into the subject. I speak on the Grammostola pulchra. I address the comment "Pulchra are slow growers" specifically. And Yes I go against the grain on this but as you can see I produce facts with pics to back it up. The G. pulchra is pretty popular for its jet black coloration. But to get it to have that gorgeous trait, it has to get large. I just showed people how they too can get it to show those colors at a much faster than average rate. Its not enough to say i can make them grow fast. Show people pictures and WOW!!! What an eye opener.

The Maraca cabocla is a fast grower and a slow grower in my care. I think I have proved myself with that one drastic picture reference in the post above yours.

 

[xhexdx]

It really is amazing that you continue to miss my point. I should also add that I find your 'nicknames' for me quite amusing and childish.

The Maraca cabocla is a fast grower and a slow grower in my care. I think I have proved myself with that one drastic picture reference in the post above yours.

Yes, because...

Heres a picture to back this up. I just took out my 2nd instar Maraca and 5th instar Maraca. Both were born from the same sac (no other sac in the US) One was in controled cooler temps with controlled feedings. Other one was living the good life.

So what exactly are you proving? It can't be that spiders grow faster when kept at higher temps and fed more, because that's already been proven.

Typically, you post threads on ATS as well. If all you're doing is 'sharing the wealth', so to speak, why haven't you posted this there too?

Added by edit:

Theres not many people that keep their specimens till they die. This is over rated.

Should I run a search for 'died'? Seems people's spiders die all the time. How often do you hear of someone's spider dying of 'old age'? Seems spiders are always dying for mysterious reasons, but I never see anyone attribute it to old age.

So either spiders never live long enough in captivity to die of old age, or we just don't know what we're talking about. I'm opting for the latter.

I could continue but I really feel like you're going to continue to miss my point. I mean, I already gave you examples of fast growers, yet you're still asking me for a list of them.

 

[TalonAWD]

So what exactly are you proving? It can't be that spiders grow faster when kept at higher temps and fed more, because that's already been proven.

That it can be done with many species. Faster growth that is. Reread my post. I'm sharing the so called "Secret" I have been asked, and now I reveal it.

Typically, you post threads on ATS as well. If all you're doing is 'sharing the wealth', so to speak, why haven't you posted this there too?

So far its on two forums and on the other forum its big news with a sticky and a five star rating. Let me go put it right now...Thanks for the reminder haha.

Should I run a search for 'died'? Seems people's spiders die all the time. How often do you hear of someone's spider dying of 'old age'? Seems spiders are always dying for mysterious reasons, but I never see anyone attribute it to old age.

So either spiders never live long enough in captivity to die of old age, or we just don't know what we're talking about. I'm opting for the latter.

Like I said. Play the hobby as you wish. Don't like my way, step aside. If a specimen dies, get another one. I do it for enjoyment, not companionship. Thats what my wife and daughters are for.

And I'm sorry but did not see the list of fast growers. Post them please.

 

[xhexdx]

Thanks for the reminder haha.

My pleasure. Time to make my rounds and repost my initial response on all those other forums.

 

[TalonAWD]

My pleasure. Time to make my rounds and repost my initial response on all those other forums.

List of fast growers?

Heres another record in the meantime.

Poecilotheria regalis.
Born in January
Bought May 16, 2008 1.25" Leg span
Molt 5-30-08
Molt 6-21-08
Molt 7-14-08
Molt 08-08-08 (3.5" Leg Span)
Molt 9-09-2008 (5" Leg span)
Molt 10-27-2008 (5 3/4" Leg span)
Sold specimen.

 

[Skullptor]

I have a so-called fast grower (LP) I bought from Patrick on 2/2008. It's about 4" now 2 1/2 years later.

 

[x Mr Awesome x]

I'm sure you knew I'd be posting in this thread.

Please re-read my posts and take your predisposition of my 'out to get everybody' mentality out of the equation, and you might get it.

Get off it Joe. You know as well as anybody how you are. You announce your own entrance into a thread for God's sake. Why? To express that you are about to act in a way that maintains your own reputation of badgering and condescending. Congrats. You haven't disappointed anyone in respect to that. And just like clockwork you try to neutralize your own crap attitude with a disclaimer like, "I'm just straight to the point" or "I'm not out to get everybody" which was implied here. That is precisely what you do. More on that in a second.

I'll say this again, in case you missed it:

I am not saying Talon's spiders don't grow faster than an average keeper's spiders. I'm saying the claim that they aren't fast (You mean slow??) growers is invalid unless you perform the same experiment on a fast-growing species. Excuse me for trying to clear up using a faulty experiment to debunk the 'myth'. No offense intended to Talon with that statement - as I said, he does have a knack for growing them quickly.

Okay. So let me get this straight. Joe, you're trying to, for the greater whole of the arachnid keeping community, clear up what would YOU would semantically define 'fast' or 'slow' growing? Okay... So because Grammastola pulchra have been considered slow growing thus far in the hobby Talon should not call his specimen 'fast growing'. In fact he should call it something retarded like 'much faster-than-normal-growing-slow-growing'. Right? That's your whole point? Impressive. Thank you Joe. Now I know to call my P. murinus not slow growing, because it's not a slow grower, what it's rightful name is, 'considerably-slower-than-normal-growing-fast-growing-OBT'. I would have hated to look like an idiot for using the wrong term.

Did I make my point? You're so far off base from anything relevant or even considerable that you're just badgering. That's it. No where in the headline of this thread did it say anything that should have sent up blip on your radar to address misinformation. No, it seems the fact that it was authored my TalonAWD and he was offering something useful and out of the ordinary was more than enough reason for you to try and wreck something that the rest of us can humbly enjoy. I really think you need another hobby besides this one Joe, something to keep you busy.

 

[Fran]

I have a so-called fast grower (LP) I bought from Patrick on 2/2008. It's about 4" now 2 1/2 years later.

That is an exception.

If you keep them within reasonable temps (75-85F ) they should grow much faster.

On a side note, what Joe is trying to say, basically , is that unfortunately the fact that one pulchra or 10 grew faster than expected, it doesnt mean the whole specie in fact is a fast grower.

We all know how he posts, as well as everybody as their own style.

 

[Snuggles]

They deleted all your comments on the other site, Joe.

 

[xhexdx]

Funny you should correct an error in my post - I'll go ahead and turn yours red. Also, while we're correcting...it's spelled Grammostola.

Get off it Joe. You know as well as anybody how you are. You announce your own entrance into a thread for God's sake. Why? To express that you are about to act in a way that maintains your own reputation of badgering and condescending. Congrats. You haven't disappointed anyone in respect to that. And just like clockwork you try to neutralize your own crap attitude with a disclaimer like, "I'm just straight to the point" or "I'm not out to get everybody" which was implied here. That is precisely what you do. More on that in a second.




Okay. So let me get this straight. Joe, you're trying to, for the greater whole of the arachnid keeping community, clear up what would YOU would semantically define 'fast' or 'slow' growing? Okay... So because Grammastola pulchra have been considered slow growing thus far in the hobby Talon should not call his specimen 'fast growing'. In fact he should call it something retarded like 'much faster-than-normal-growing-slow-growing'. Right? That's your whole point? Impressive. Thank you Joe. Now I know to call my P. murinus not slow growing, because it's not a slow grower, what it's rightful name is, 'considerably-slower-than-normal-growing-fast-growing-OBT'. I would have hated to look like an idiot for using the wrong term.

Did I make my point? You're so far off base from anything relevant or even considerable that you're just badgering. That's it. No where in the headline of this thread did it say anything that should have sent up blip on your radar to address misinformation. No, it seems the fact that it was authored my TalonAWD and he was offering something useful and out of the ordinary was more than enough reason for you to try and wreck something that the rest of us can humbly enjoy. I really think you need another hobby besides this one Joe, something to keep you busy.

Let me know when you get Talon's poop off your nose, and we can talk like adults.

They deleted all your comments on the other site, Joe.

Yeah, I saw. Besides, they all can (and most likely will) read it here anyway.

 

[Fran]

We are on Arachnoboards. What happens in other sites shouldnt corncern us..At least not to start crap.

What Joe was saying was correct, they way he said it might not be the most smooth.

 

[Shell]

It has never been a "secret" that warmer temps and more food will cause faster growth. Going as far as saying that this one pulchra disproves the fact that pulchra's are slow growers, is ridiculous in my opinion.

I realize it's a different species, but I have a G. pulchripes that went from 2" DLS to 5.5" DLS in 6 months. However, I am fully aware that it is due to the fact that our place is very warm and I offered her plenty of food during that time, never for a second did I assume that this meant that the pulchripes is actually a fast grower.

I fully agree with everything Joe has said. If it was a controlled experiment with more specimens, then sure, maybe I could take this seriously, until then, I really can't.

 

[Anastasia]

That is an exception.

If you keep them within reasonable temps (75-85F ) they should grow much faster.

On a side note, what joe is trying to say, basically , is that unfortunately the fact that one pulchra or 10 grew faster than expected, it doesnt mean the whole specie in fact is a fast grower.

not always truth, I think what Joe try to point to compare apples to apples not bananas or possums
if specimens kept in same conditions (temp/hum etc )but fed on different schedules (one gets limited one all what he can eat)
or one specimen kept cool and food limited and one warmer and with plenty food
I have experience several sac-mates been kept on same schedule (temp/food/etc) and some wore alot smaller then other
so the point is, they all unique and there is always exceptions

 

[Fran]

not always truth, I think what Joe try to point to compare apples to apples not bananas or possums
if specimens kept in same conditions (temp/hum etc )but fed on different schedules (one gets limited one all what he can eat)
or one specimen kept cool and food limited and one warmer and with plenty food
I have experience several sac-mates been kept on same schedule (temp/food/etc) and some wore alot smaller then other
so the point is, they all unique and there is always exceptions

It is always true on Parahybanas, except rare exceptions.