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The future of the hobby?

Discussion in 'Scorpions' started by scorpionmom, Mar 29, 2011.

  1. Michiel

    Michiel Arachnoking Old Timer

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    that is indeed huge. Most 'emps' are 5-6 inches...They can reach 8 inches, but I have only seen such a big specimen in the museum I work sometimes. You basically don't see these in the hobby circuit. Somehow captive bred specimens do not become as large as their counterparts that developed in their natural surroundings....I don't know the reason why...
     
  2. scorpguy

    scorpguy Arachnopeon

    I wonder if captive bred specimens are generally smaller than their wild counterparts because they have limited space in their enclosures, similar to some fish only growing as large and their tanks allow them to grow. Or maybe specimens in the wild grow larger in order to take down larger prey and defend themselves from predators whereas in captivity most scorpions only have to take down crickets, mealworms and the occasional pinky. These are just speculation, I wish we knew the real reason they are smaller so we could all have 7-8 inch emps.
     
  3. signinsimple

    signinsimple Arachnobaron

    NYC
    Hey Michiel, are you saying that if I finally found a few more 7.5 - 8 inch emps, and then bred them, that the scorplings would only grow to be 5 - 6 inchers? That would suck. If I gotta give these scorpions steroids I'm growing me some monster Emps :wicked:
     
  4. I think the hobby will be great in the future. Captive breeding is ever increasing and we all learn new things everyday.
     
  5. Good point. I definitely hope it does!:D;)
     
  6. Harlock

    Harlock Arachnosquire

    I think the emps are getting smaller because the wild populations have been getting smashed over the years. Smaller and smaller are whats coming in, because that's all that is left in the wild. I thought whole populations have been wiped out in the wild.

    I think the real problem was already stated. There are very few dedicated breeders of scorpions. You guys tend to really know what you're doing, but you can't bred everything that comes into the hobby. There is also the issue I've seen recently of bigger importers using improper common names for stuff (Florida key scorpion is not C. gracilis)

    Once I get the space I'd like to focus more on natives; I just set up 4 P. reddelli in a 10g, hoping to see how that goes (it only takes me 3 hours to collect 5+, so I can get more if I need to.)
     
  7. H. laoticus

    H. laoticus Arachnoprince

    Seriously, 7.5 :eek:
    Maybe the wild ones are larger because they're the survivors? Smaller, weaker ones die off and "only the strong survive" because they can defend themselves or hunt larger prey. Just guessing :D
     
  8. John Kanker

    John Kanker Arachnosquire

    See Dr Striffler's replys Here
     
  9. Galapoheros

    Galapoheros ArachnoGod Old Timer

    Well seems to me that most of the wild caught ones I see in stores are around 5 inches, true wild caught 6 inchers are even hard to come buy in stores. I've been in a store when they came in, fresh wild caught, with original red dirt on them, smallish savannahs. Who has adult captive born?, probably only a relatively handful in the hobby. So I don't think there is much info on the size of captive born adults in the US, if any. Anybody here try it so they could compare the CB adults to the parents? I'm doing it right now, a few years to go prob though.

    Hey John, you kind of beat me to it, yeah, many people on the boards here, even most that posted in this thread, know about this. A Pandinus specialist emailed me about this that works over there in Africa, he said that it's not that there are two specific types but that there is a gradient of all diff sizes from the jungles to the savannahs. That's what he said anyway. I'm careful to believe 100% of what anybody says though depending on what the topic is. People that have, or want, reputations of knowing this or that have gotten it wrong enough for me to keep an open mind.
     
  10. Michiel

    Michiel Arachnoking Old Timer

    Let me put it this way: small scorpions CAN give birth to large scorpions and vice versa. A large mom and dad does not a priori garantee large young, but the chances are bigger since both parents carry the genes to become large, but it is not always the case that these traits are passed on.
     
  11. Good point. Very true about the common names, they do get confusing very fast. I disagree, though, about every scorpion coming into the hobby being bred. I can see what you mean, but I think it is definitely possible and we should try to do it. We could set up a system, I have an idea but not much time right now...will come back later and try to post it.

    Good on the P. redlelli!:D;)
     
  12. Nomadinexile

    Nomadinexile Arachnoking

    You already have one vote. :p

    ---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 PM ----------

    I agree with Smom here. We can and should.

    I also agree with her on the P. reddelli. NICE!!! They are awesome scorpions! And if you have any success, you will have a lot of slings.. Yay!

    Good luck Harlock! :clap:
     
  13. I guess I can explain my idea. It might not be the best, but it is worth it. Here goes:

    We could "assign" a particular species or a few species to a specific person. Everyone who wanted to breed could "pick" their own scorpion. More people could breed rarer ones. And so on. Just a suggestion, I would like more ideas!
     
  14. signinsimple

    signinsimple Arachnobaron

    NYC
    Not my question Michiel, my question was on this:
    Do you mean to say that captive bred scorps generally do not get as large as their parents were? or that something about being bred in captivity means the scorp doesn't get as large as it would have in the wild? Because that would suck.

    And if anyone happens to know a way to find Large Emps (sometimes called Forest Form Emps) feel free to pm me. I've just about given up on any regular classifieds.
     
  15. AzJohn

    AzJohn Arachnoking Old Timer

    We can't really know why. It could be the diet isn't diverse enough in captivity. It could be that we don't provide the environmental needs that are required to produce giants. Really it could be anything.

    John
     
  16. Galapoheros

    Galapoheros ArachnoGod Old Timer

    My opinion is that I think this is only an assumption that they don't get as big in captivity, I've seen no documentation about this at all, has anybody?, really, think about it, there is no evidence, I wonder where this speculation comes from. Or maybe that's only what it is, speculation. Also, it may be that we tend to pick the biggest ones out of a group in stores. That only means that off spring will generally, naturally be smaller because the big one that was picked had the odds against it in being bigger than most, like it won the gene lottery maybe. But bigger odds of it carrying genes that would create smaller scorpions than itself is prob the case there, imo.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  17. Bayushi

    Bayushi Arachnoprince Old Timer

    I have had a few broods of P imp in my time in the hobby, and raised slings to adulthood. I have had a small percentage grow to be truely huge (over 6 inches) with most being average (closer to 4 or 5 inches). I think it really has nothing to do with captivity as much as it has to do with genetics of the individual. The ones that got over 6 inches had broods that were all on the average size, with 1 or 2 getting bigger. I wish I still had all the documentation I did when I was living in Canada showing the growth ranges.
     
  18. H. laoticus

    H. laoticus Arachnoprince

    Same here, I'm not sure where the idea came from either :? How many people are actually breeding them and keeping them to adulthood?
     
  19. Michiel

    Michiel Arachnoking Old Timer

    I meant both, scorpions somehow don't become as large as their conspecifics in " the wild".....
     
  20. The U.S. hobby seems to be growing rapidly lately, with new imports coming in and many people taking initiative to breed their scorpions. I just wanted to say, good work! Any insights?
     
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