The future of captive breeding

Scoly

Arachnobaron
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For captive centipedes which we dissecting, other than one which has died from dessication or some obvious woundings, nearly all appeared to have this unusual hemolymphs which leads for us to believe that they are for some reason not possible to digest in captivity.
This is really interesting. I've read up about phosphorous and can only find studies indicating insects grow more slowly if they lack phosphorous, and another measuring the phosphorous content of various arthropods and finding them much higher spiders than insects, and higher in "string flying" insects than weak flying ones.

But yes you are right that this is actually not so useful informations, due to I am not sure how possible to replicate microbiome of natural environs, apology but I do not use english properly for speak about science term
The English is good (at least for me!)

It may not necessarily be microbiomes, it could be a specific nutritient too? I wish I had large clutches of "dispensable" centipedes to test these theories by raising them in different conditions and observing the survival rate. Sounds harsh but this is the price to pay for reducing death rates in the future.



I ended up on a search today and added these links to my bookmarks:

Prevention and treatment of digestive tract inflammation in centipede breeding-Featured breeding information network
Centipede breeding prospects-Featured breeding information network
Feeding and management of giant red head centipede-Featured Breeding Information Network
Matters needing attention when raising centipedes in winter-Featured Breeding Information Network
The mating and reproduction of centipede breeding technology-Featured breeding information network

(All article titles are just Google translations)

Same caveats about translations being a bit funny in places, but its good enough to follow. What I found most interesting is the number of pharmaceuticals prescribed to solve specific problems. I'm not sure if these have actually been shown to help.
 
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Ganoderma

Arachnobaron
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We do have a LOT of chemicals in Asia. to be honest, once there is a profit, ailments are figured out pretty quick. i have zero experience in regards to treating .centipede but i would suggest that commercial farmers probably arent far off. but growin them in outdoor settings with thousands together brings about both etter and worse conditions than a tub with sterilized soils. i can veey much see diet and micro organisms playing a huge part in survival, as they do with virtually all animals. one farm from china.claimed they only added yellow mealworms but also add grass thatch above for shade but also to allow the pedes to nibble and assume there will be on the animals on the grass. when we find them in the wild, leaf litter and. wood are always present and this means a very strong fungal and bacterial community. i could see that being important, even if indirectly via ants and termites, Or even other animals that eat ants and termites such as toads, uropygi etc.

I am just thinking outloud. i havent studied it or tested it. mostly going off what i see in the wild and raising medicine.
 

TheHouseof21pairs

Arachnosquire
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For me in Europe the problems all come to one. Most of sellers(99%), LPS and wholesalers alike, still selling unsexed pedes. Buying dozens of pedes just to chance the luck to eventually get a pair to mate doesn’t sound appealing. Not everyone has the time and money to buy and look after 50/60 pedes. Many isolated hobbyists stick to that one pede til he dies and buy another one instead of wasting a lot of money in tons of pedes to get few pedelings, which god only knows how many will survive.
 

Ganoderma

Arachnobaron
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Is there by chance an easy pictorial showing people how to differentiate sexes for the more commonly seen ones in the hobby? perhaps that would be easy to show sellers and it will become a standard.

we made a simple one years ago for Typopeltis cricifer which made it easy for people. unfortunately i dont keep many centipededs now and have no pictures, but lots of good pics by truly smart people here
 

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TheHouseof21pairs

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Unfortunately there’s no sexual dimorphism in centipedes. Reproductive organs are inside the last segment and the only way to see them is popping them out.
 

Ganoderma

Arachnobaron
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A question for those of you with experience. what of removing the mother from the eggs and incubating them? there are lots of questions i have on this from turning like birds or not turning or getting wet like monitors to hatchling given certain care and/or nutrients via mama until their first shed. if people are having troubles with moms eating eggs, and it isnt due to people disturbing them, perhaps separated incubation is viable? cruel?
 

Scoly

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A question for those of you with experience. what of removing the mother from the eggs and incubating them? there are lots of questions i have on this from turning like birds or not turning or getting wet like monitors to hatchling given certain care and/or nutrients via mama until their first shed. if people are having troubles with moms eating eggs, and it isnt due to people disturbing them, perhaps separated incubation is viable? cruel?
Several people have tried, but it never works. Even those removed at eggs-with-legs stage tend to die. There is clearly some important role the mother plays which we have not fully understood. One idea which gets bounced around is that she cleans her eggs and that the "saliva" has anti-fungal properties but I don'r know if this has ever been proven.

It would be great if eggs could be incubated away from the mother, but so far no dice.
 

TheHouseof21pairs

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Good mommy keeps the eggs nice and clean and free of parasites/fungus till the hatchling. You’ll never be able to replicate her care in any way. It doesn’t work. Didn’t for many many breeders that tried to save their clutch. If mom eats the eggs there a good valuable reason and she knows it!!
 

Chris LXXIX

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For me in Europe the problems all come to one. Most of sellers(99%), LPS and wholesalers alike, still selling unsexed pedes.
Of course. Sexing a 'pede isn't fast and easy like sexing T's is. Add the fact that 'pedes are, in general, a sort of niche market compared to spiders. Last but not least, the average Asian 'pedes that floods the market in Europe, are so WC cheap that simply it's (for their perspective) a waste of time.
Here in Italy, once, I bought a S. subspinipes, obviously unsexed, cheap and WC as heck, one night I was able to discover her sex since I had pedelings all over the enclosure, ah ah :)
 

Ganoderma

Arachnobaron
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I put together a sexing guide on the website: https://centipede.keeper.solutions/sexing-guide
Thanks, i enjoyed reading that a lot. learned some new things!

The moult method is smart. the water method makes me think about the underwater species and their biology. maybe its common knowledge but it seems pedes have evolved from, or to, a semiaquatic organism. but to be honest, drowning and popping does seem fairly risky towards the centipede, no?
 

Scoly

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Thanks, i enjoyed reading that a lot. learned some new things!

The moult method is smart. the water method makes me think about the underwater species and their biology. maybe its common knowledge but it seems pedes have evolved from, or to, a semiaquatic organism. but to be honest, drowning and popping does seem fairly risky towards the centipede, no?
Well myriapods did start out under water, and were probably among the first creatures to set foot on land. Many small invertebrates survive drowning, which makes sense if you live in soil which can be flooded, while others die instantly.
Drowning scolopendra is a risk, though it seems to be mainly if the animal is premoult, and there's quite a few threads on this forum discussing that. What's less known is that CO2 also carries risk of the animal not waking up, though it seems really rare.
 

TheHouseof21pairs

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Nice search feature added ...good work!
Added many of my captive bred clutches and sexed adults a while back. I'm in Australia though, so the usefulness of my input is rather limited.
@Scoly Registering Australian pedes might seem pointless, but things in time could change. Probably will never happen but you never know...laws could change in 10/15/20 years time and the next generation might be able to enjoy Ethmostigmus rubripes and Cormocephalus rubriceps as there’s no way to get anything in or out of the country atm!
Btw I seem to be the only Dehaani registered in Italy. Damn it Italian people what’s wrong with you and centipedes?????
 

Necrodude

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It only takes one new law or regulatory interpretation to wipe out extinct species in the hobby but zoological institutions are too few to host populations of more than a handful and much more precarious in nature. Have you been to the National Zoo invertebrate building to see how their invert populations are faring? It was shut down by the director to save a fraction of the money needed to rent pandas for a year. Success stories in the hobby include desert pup fish and it is the only practical solution to save creatures. The problem with centipedes is mostly they are difficult to keep more than a few generations and sadly any plans to coordinate may never overcome the root problem.
I was so disappointed when they closed down the invertebrate building at the national zoo. I went there so many times as a kid and teenager. It was my favorite part of the zoo.
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
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Btw I seem to be the only Dehaani registered in Italy. Damn it Italian people what’s wrong with you and centipedes?????
Sorry, what do you mean with "registered"...? :pompous:

In Italy you can keep all the 'pedes you want, there's absolutely no restrictions, permits of all sorts to ask etc about the keeping of those (like happened for arachnids in 2003, with that infamous law).

If you mean that, among those that keep venomous inverts here in Italy, 'pedes aren't so popular like T's, sure. Ok. But this goes for other nations as well (Here on AB, where the average user is mostly from USA/Canada the ratio is 7/8 people keep T's, 2/3 keep 'pedes).

Just few years ago my 'pede (S. subspinipes) was gravid, and I traded those pedelings with a famous Italian seller. Yours isn't the only S. dehaani of Italy, trust me :)
 
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TheHouseof21pairs

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Sorry, what do you mean with "registered"...? :pompous:

In Italy you can keep all the 'pedes you want, there's absolutely no restrictions, permits of all sorts to ask etc about the keeping of those (like happened for arachnids in 2003, with that infamous law).

If you mean that, among those that keep venomous inverts here in Italy, 'pedes aren't so popular like T's, sure. Ok. But this goes for other nations as well (Here on AB, where the average user is mostly from USA/Canada the ratio is 7/8 people keep T's, 2/3 keep 'pedes).

Just few years ago my 'pede (S. subspinipes) was gravid, and I traded those pedelings with a famous Italian seller. Yours isn't the only S. dehaani of Italy, trust me :)
Ahahahah I guess I know well mine is not the only Dehaani in Italy and I know you can keep as many as you like... I have other 5 Cingulata. What I mean is that this centipede.keeper.solution should be brought forward from anyone here in any country they belong, given that, i repeat, the only Dehaani listed on this site atm in Italy is mine, actually the only Centipede from Italy is mine whatever species you can think of. It would be very useful if other keepers or breeders in Italy would list their Dehaani so to keep in touch and keep the species growing in Italy with cb specimens.
@Chris LXXIX Do you know what did he do with the pedelings?? Did he sell them all in Italy?? Are they all alive?? Were they bred for reproduction??? Do you know any of this?? They’re probably lost forever and god only knows where they are. If they all would be listed on the centipede.keeper.solution we’d know a lot more about any pedeling going around and be used for breeding purposes.
 

Chris LXXIX

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Ahahahah I guess I know well mine is not the only Dehaani in Italy and I know you can keep as many as you like... I have other 5 Cingulata. What I mean is that this centipede.keeper.solution should be brought forward from anyone here in any country they belong, given that, i repeat, the only Dehaani listed on this site atm in Italy is mine, actually the only Centipede from Italy is mine whatever species you can think of. It would be very useful if other keepers or breeders in Italy would list their Dehaani so to keep in touch and keep the species growing in Italy with cb specimens.
@Chris LXXIX Do you know what did he do with the pedelings?? Did he sell them all in Italy?? Are they all alive?? Were they bred for reproduction??? Do you know any of this?? They’re probably lost forever and god only knows where they are. If they all would be listed on the centipede.keeper.solution we’d know a lot more about any pedeling going around and be used for breeding purposes.
Ah ok, now I understand. Sorry. Didn't followed well that part of this 'pede register. I don't know, maybe could work.

Btw 5 S. cingulata? I'm incredibly jealous, I want one since forever :)

I don't know what happened to those 30 pedelings, honestly, but I bet he sold those in various expos or else.
 

TheHouseof21pairs

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@Chris LXXIX
Jagger...subadult unsexed...5 inch monster
DBB7437E-125F-4D51-9CBF-31675CAEDAFC.jpeg
Toki...juvenile unsexed... 3” cutie
F109FFAD-18EA-49FF-B81F-BDF49D281588.jpeg
and 2 pedelings about 4 cm....so cute

E3718523-F7BB-40A9-9D3C-CCBF95894943.jpeg
064FC134-301A-4630-943F-7510A889C091.jpeg
the other pedeling is buried.
 

TheHouseof21pairs

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Very nice cingulata collection! Are these all from Italy? I found some pretty ones on the Costa Merlata a few years back, right beside the sea.
Yes. I found few last spring. About 15 mins from where I live. The Old Eagle Valley about 400/450 mt high. This colour form (leather look alike with blue leg-tips like jagger) from the Valley is stunning. Juveniles like Toki are just beautiful...those aqua-blue legs and antennas are unbelievable. I love all sort of pedes believe me, but Cingulata is by far my favourite of all. And not just because they’re Italian, ok a little bit for that too lol, but because they’re tanks...hence “Cingulata”!! No matter if is dry or moist, cold or hot they just keep on going! On top of that you get a nice decent size too. Topping full adulthood at 6” of power and speed fused with evilness 😂!
Think that plings that size (about 4 cm) in the wild get through temps like -2/3 *C in the winter with often snow on top of that!!
 
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