The advanced evolutionary traits and superiorty of spiders vs. scorpions

Geb Arachnia Whitney

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Here we examine the predatory efficiency of araneae and contrast it to the predatory inefficiency of the scorpion.

The spider, is one of natures elite predators, capable of disabling creatures 5x their own mass. Their secret to their owed success is through the mystical properties of spider silk. While a scorpion will wait for nearby prey items to stumble into it's lair, the spider will use it's silk to cover a wider area for optimal pest control. And unlike the scorpion, most spiders are opportunistic and will gladly take down prey items on a near daily basis.

Feel free to share your own input on this subject!
 

NYAN

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Scorpions will do most of this minus the silk. They are able to sense prey using the vibrations alone rather than with silk. Many spiders do this as well. Also I’ve seen scorpions taking down prey much larger than itself many times. One can argue that they do this more efficiently because they have a telson and strength to grasp the prey item. Additionally they have a stronger exoskeleton to protect them.

If any one was ‘superior’ to the other, they wouldn’t have survived so long. Both possess adaptations that make them good at what they do.
 

aaarg

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they're both amazing groups!

spiders have a pretty unique set of characters and they diversified like a motherfather. lots of arthropods produce silk but not like this and not from there - being able to use silk to capture prey in flight is really a game-changer, ha. to me, scorpions are more like mygalomorphs - old & unchanged. most of the mygals are utilizing silk in an almost elementary way, lining burrows and protecting eggs. scorpions and mygals are typified by fast but clumsy, chunky hunters. so it goes

all obligate predators are really good at being predators - those that aren't as good tend to go extinct (unless they find a workaround like hunting communally).
 

NYAN

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most of the mygals are utilizing silk in an almost elementary way, lining burrows and protecting eggs.
True spiders also do this in their own ways. Also, many true spiders don’t even use silk to hunt.
 

The Snark

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Methinks ye be comparing apples to wallabys here. Scorps and pideys have evolved on quite divergent lines. Spiders don't have the sophisticated courtship rituals some scorps indulge in and aren't the main battle tanks of many detritus zones. Scorps don't possess the alacrity, agility and fine motor skills of spiders. Lots of other differences could be listed. Very divergent.
 

BenLeeKing

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No that one is better than the other, I would think scorpions might even have a greater chance in the long run.
Spiders are adaptable, with silk they can use for many diverse niches, being specialists; contrasting with scorpions, which don't stray too far from the "basic scorpion build".
Scorpions are like a swiss army knifes, they go many good adaptations, but each adaptation they have are pretty basic, general, not much to "build upon"; silk as perviously stated have many uses, and can be used to help spiders to adapt to many niches.
But, and this is one big issue I think spider could run into, is being "too well adapted". Sure, a spider can be successful in a certain niche, but when an organism gets too specialized, they'll struggle reverting back to the "generalist origins". Therefor I personally think that spiders being too adaptable could spell doom for many specialist spiders, and scorpions being more generalist are can help them for the long run.
 

Geb Arachnia Whitney

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No that one is better than the other, I would think scorpions might even have a greater chance in the long run.
Spiders are adaptable, with silk they can use for many diverse niches, being specialists; contrasting with scorpions, which don't stray too far from the "basic scorpion build".
Scorpions are like a swiss army knifes, they go many good adaptations, but each adaptation they have are pretty basic, general, not much to "build upon"; silk as perviously stated have many uses, and can be used to help spiders to adapt to many niches.
But, and this is one big issue I think spider could run into, is being "too well adapted". Sure, a spider can be successful in a certain niche, but when an organism gets too specialized, they'll struggle reverting back to the "generalist origins". Therefor I personally think that spiders being too adaptable could spell doom for many specialist spiders, and scorpions being more generalist are can help them for the long run.
If they're so adaptable, how would they be specialized? Anyways my point being, an orb weaver will often eat many times in one day. Scorpions will only eat once a week unless they're starving. In PREDATORY efficiency, the spider is the winner. In survivalist efficiency, the scorpion is the winner. But you won't survive long if the spiders eat all your nearby food sources by the time you're ready to eat again...
 

BenLeeKing

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If they're so adaptable, how would they be specialized? Anyways my point being, an orb weaver will often eat many times in one day. Scorpions will only eat once a week unless they're starving. In PREDATORY efficiency, the spider is the winner. In survivalist efficiency, the scorpion is the winner. But you won't survive long if the spiders eat all your nearby food sources by the time you're ready to eat again...
Few things:
Orb weavers and Scorpions are in different niches, but yeah, minor point.
Food doesn't really "run out" there is always a new nitche to exploit, but even more importantly, won't a more enduring animal be better? In your proposed scenario of a spider needing more food, I doubt the spider would ever be able to absolutely wipe out all food sources and leave nothing for the scorpion. Even more ironic, we are not talking about individuals here, evolution works on populations; so if the spider is so effective in hunting and cleaned out all the food, now there's a new problem, the spiders doomed each other. Meanwhile, scorpions can wait it out, and when all the spider population crashes, and prey item returns, they can get a bite.

Not saying that this is definitive fact, but there are many factors that also put into play, let's also not forget the most important factor of luck.
 

Geb Arachnia Whitney

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Few things:
Orb weavers and Scorpions are in different niches, but yeah, minor point.
Food doesn't really "run out" there is always a new nitche to exploit, but even more importantly, won't a more enduring animal be better? In your proposed scenario of a spider needing more food, I doubt the spider would ever be able to absolutely wipe out all food sources and leave nothing for the scorpion. Even more ironic, we are not talking about individuals here, evolution works on populations; so if the spider is so effective in hunting and cleaned out all the food, now there's a new problem, the spiders doomed each other. Meanwhile, scorpions can wait it out, and when all the spider population crashes, and prey item returns, they can get a bite.

Not saying that this is definitive fact, but there are many factors that also put into play, let's also not forget the most important factor of luck.
Spiders don't need to eat everyday. They just don't let those opportunities pass them by. Including other spiders. Not saying one is better than the other or that I like one more than the other, but if my scorpions aren't hungry, they'll let their food walk all over them. Granted, spiders will do the same thing, but it's far less frequent. But why aren't you reading the part where I say they literally kill more insects and are thus, better predators in that aspect. I'm not saying that spiders are more armored or can survive nuclear blasts better. I'm just taking note of how there's a bigger pile of dead pests under the web than under the slate.
 

The Snark

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I'm having a lot of difficulty seeing the purpose of this thread. Whiles scorps and spiders share the same class Arachnida the order diverged a long long time ago. So while you are comparing why not take all the orders, Acari Amblypygi Araneae Haptopoda Opiliones Palpigradi Phalangiotarbi Pseudoscorpiones Ricinulei Schizomida Scorpiones Solifugae Thelyphonida Trigonotarbida Uraraneida Xiphosura into account?

While spiders can do this and that and scorps can do thats and the others, let's toss mites into the discussion. As far as successful goes, and this discussion essentially is all about success, Acari beats all the rest stone cold. Reproduction wise, they exceed all other arachnids combined. Some have most of the traits of scorpions while they are also highly adapted in numerous ways as web spinners. They are exclusively herbivorous, omnivorous, carnivorous and a few combine all three diets. They are arboreal, terrestrial, everything in between, aquatic, and deep detritus dwellers. Some live harmoniously with their environment and thrive while surrounded by potential predators, while others can contribute to the deaths of mammals and kill large trees. Their mouths and chelicerae are adapted to being pure predator on out to eating micro-particulate dust and dirt. Need I go on?
 
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Geb Arachnia Whitney

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I was giving an exemple but yes, some spiders eat less than others and some scorpions eat more than others. But if I were to have a carpenter ant problem(example), and I didn't want to use pesticide, it would be very efficient of me to employ the use of grass spiders, black lace weavers and common house spiders(examples), who are known to eat many times a day, as opposed to 10 Asian forest scorpions or 10 Florida bark scorpions(examples).
 
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