Thai Giant Pill Millipedes

JBUSN1990

Arachnopeon
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
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8
Raising and breeding them is not easy, but still some success. Photos below is another species I have had success with and the WF1 are now adults.

First, they cannot withstand high temperatures. For low-altitude species (like most Zephroniidae in Thailand that you mentioned), 30 degrees Celsius is already quite fatal. For high-altitude species( like Zoosphaerium neptunus, more than 1100m), as long as they stay above 25 degrees for an hour, they can no longer digest food normally and can only starve to death.
For foreign species that come from afar, most of them have already experienced high temperatures of over 30 degrees Celsius during transportation (think about when they are in the car!), so I don't recommend you to buy those non domestic pill millipedes.

They need a stable environment, and the bedding should be litter with high humus content, such as rotten oak leaves or decayed wood flake. A small spoonful of calcium containing substances such as limestone powder or eggshell powder should be added to each liter of humus - the shell of a millipede requires a large amount of calcium.
The humidity of humus should be maintained at the level where it is not dripping when you grip it in your hand, and It won't completely disperse after letting go, like what beetles like. That is, moist but no liquid water. The young cannot tolerate drying or drown, so the air conditioner cannot blow directly into the breeding container. Otherwise, the uneven temperature will cause the water vapor in the container to condense on the colder side, and all the young on the dry side will dry out, and the wet side will drown.
The small and medium-sized(adult 2~4cm) species do not require too high ventilation levels. Generally speaking, one week after spraying water, the surface of the mat can be re dried, which is enough.
They need no additional feeding at all and feed entirely on humus like decayed wood and rotten leaves, which is the bedding material we should provide. If you want, you can also feed non-toxic edible fungi occasionally. Such as oyster mushrooms.

The most important is that their reproduction requires【enough thickness(5cm or more in most cases) of their own feces】, this is determined by their egg laying method: They lie with their stomachs facing up in their own fecal pile, use their legs to grab the feces above them, and bury the eggs inside, which can enable the newborn to obtain crucial gut microbiota.
This breeding pattern is undoubtedly very strange to humans, but pill millipedes often inhabit only a fixed area in the wild - for example, around the same valley - for decades. So the soil in their habitat is filled with their own kind of feces, they never lack feces in the wild. Unfortunately, it took humans decades to unravel this secret, and only a few papers have discussed this unique reproductive method. I happened to see an individual laying eggs on the side wall of a container and was fortunate to know all about it.
So, the bedding material cannot be changed frequently, so feces can accumulate.
Besides, for 3~4cm species, the diameter of newborns usually does not exceed 2mm, it is almost invisible (you can refer to the picture!), If you change the bedding, you will often have to find small and fragile newborns from the "sea of feces" one by one --considering that each female can give birth to hundreds of newborns and eggs are in feces(completely invisible), believe me, this is a epic vision challenge you wouldn't want to experience again.
You can use a taller container and when the food is used up, add new food on top without turning, until the container is full. As long as the container is large enough, you just need to change the bedding material in more than once a year, giving the pups plenty of time to hatch and grow.
But sometimes, feces accumulate toooooo thick(more than 20cm in most cases), the lower layer does not receive enough oxygen, anaerobic fermentation will occur. The main feature of this thing is that the bedding turns yellow on a large area and emits a foul odor (of course, the odor is something you can only smell when you open it) .
When you observe this, you should strengthen the ventilation of the container and carefully remove the top 5~10cm bedding with millipedes inside, roughly search for the lower level individuals, then discard all yellowed parts below and replace the top layer that was just removed--As long as you gradually add new leaves layer by layer as I said, most individuals (including the young) will gather with the food upwards (because the lower layer lacks food, its all feces), the top 10cm will contain the vast majority of individuals, so even if the lower layer lacks oxygen, because most individuals are in the upper layer, the losses are usually small.
Of course, even nothing happed, you can use this method when the container is full.

They usually breed only once a year, with the incubation period lasting several months, and the young taking about three years to grow into adults. Adults can live for more than 4 years, and I believe the limit can be much longer, maybe 10+ years in total. Since they are all great eaters, you may have to bear a large electricity and food bill, but overall they do not require a lot of care.
This is just my personal experience, there may be mistakes. Welcome everyone to communicate with me!
IMG_0919.jpeg See the white dot in front of my finger? This is a little baby that has recently emerged from feces, F2. Newborn is even smaller.
90602a303t679a99a7ebd32e43a93089.jpeg
Adults from Changjiang, Hainan, China
IMG_0937.jpeg
Baby, 8 segment, more than the newborns, but the adults have 13.
 
Last edited:

Kada

Arachnobaron
Arachnosupporter
Joined
May 17, 2023
Messages
533
Raising and breeding them is not easy, but still some success. Photos below is another species I have had success with and the WF1 are now adults.

First, they cannot withstand high temperatures. For low-altitude species (like most Zephroniidae in Thailand that you mentioned), 30 degrees Celsius is already quite fatal. For high-altitude species( like Zoosphaerium neptunus, more than 1100m), as long as they stay above 25 degrees for an hour, they can no longer digest food normally and can only starve to death.
For foreign species that come from afar, most of them have already experienced high temperatures of over 30 degrees Celsius during transportation (think about when they are in the car!), so I don't recommend you to buy those non domestic pill millipedes.

They need a stable environment, and the bedding should be litter with high humus content, such as rotten oak leaves or decayed wood flake. A small spoonful of calcium containing substances such as limestone powder or eggshell powder should be added to each liter of humus - the shell of a millipede requires a large amount of calcium.
The humidity of humus should be maintained at the level where it is not dripping when you grip it in your hand, and It won't completely disperse after letting go, like what beetles like. That is, moist but no liquid water. The young cannot tolerate drying or drown, so the air conditioner cannot blow directly into the breeding container. Otherwise, the uneven temperature will cause the water vapor in the container to condense on the colder side, and all the young on the dry side will dry out, and the wet side will drown.
The small and medium-sized(adult 2~4cm) species do not require too high ventilation levels. Generally speaking, one week after spraying water, the surface of the mat can be re dried, which is enough.
They need no additional feeding at all and feed entirely on humus like decayed wood and rotten leaves, which is the bedding material we should provide. If you want, you can also feed non-toxic edible fungi occasionally. Such as oyster mushrooms.

The most important is that their reproduction requires【enough thickness(5cm or more in most cases) of their own feces】, this is determined by their egg laying method: They lie with their stomachs facing up in their own fecal pile, use their legs to grab the feces above them, and bury the eggs inside, which can enable the newborn to obtain crucial gut microbiota.
This breeding pattern is undoubtedly very strange to humans, but pill millipedes often inhabit only a fixed area in the wild - for example, around the same valley - for decades. So the soil in their habitat is filled with their own kind of feces, they never lack feces in the wild. Unfortunately, it took humans decades to unravel this secret, and only a few papers have discussed this unique reproductive method. I happened to see an individual laying eggs on the side wall of a container and was fortunate to know all about it.
So, the bedding material cannot be changed frequently, so feces can accumulate.
Besides, for 3~4cm species, the diameter of newborns usually does not exceed 2mm, it is almost invisible (you can refer to the picture!), If you change the bedding, you will often have to find small and fragile newborns from the "sea of feces" one by one --considering that each female can give birth to hundreds of newborns and eggs are in feces(completely invisible), believe me, this is a epic vision challenge you wouldn't want to experience again.
You can use a taller container and when the food is used up, add new food on top without turning, until the container is full. As long as the container is large enough, you just need to change the bedding material in more than once a year, giving the pups plenty of time to hatch and grow.
But sometimes, feces accumulate toooooo thick(more than 20cm in most cases), the lower layer does not receive enough oxygen, anaerobic fermentation will occur. The main feature of this thing is that the bedding turns yellow on a large area and emits a foul odor (of course, the odor is something you can only smell when you open it) .
When you observe this, you should strengthen the ventilation of the container and carefully remove the top 5~10cm bedding with millipedes inside, roughly search for the lower level individuals, then discard all yellowed parts below and replace the top layer that was just removed--As long as you gradually add new leaves layer by layer as I said, most individuals (including the young) will gather with the food upwards (because the lower layer lacks food, its all feces), the top 10cm will contain the vast majority of individuals, so even if the lower layer lacks oxygen, because most individuals are in the upper layer, the losses are usually small.
Of course, even nothing happed, you can use this method when the container is full.

They usually breed only once a year, with the incubation period lasting several months, and the young taking about three years to grow into adults. Adults can live for more than 4 years, and I believe the limit can be much longer, maybe 10+ years in total. Since they are all great eaters, you may have to bear a large electricity and food bill, but overall they do not require a lot of care.
This is just my personal experience, there may be mistakes. Welcome everyone to communicate with me!
View attachment 459389 See the white dot in front of my finger? This is a little baby that has recently emerged from feces, F2. Newborn is even smaller.
View attachment 459396
Adults from Changjiang, Hainan, China
View attachment 459395
Baby, 8 segment, more than the newborns, but the adults have 13.
Fantastic insights.

To take.it further, I wonder about temperature...I have found them in mid 30s quite consistantly in Thailand and Malaysia. lowland areas. I think the same.can be said for.most captive environments, air flow is really just as key as temperature. a tank that gets to 35 degrees but has open air is a vastly different situation than a closed off environment. this lends well to mushroom growers observationsas well as pet trade/lab captive care.

i personally have a hunch the issue in captivity for many difficult species, aside from diet, is this. tiny cages with stuffy air. even far harder animals like Avicularia species are known to have this issue.

Captive enclosures I feel should be uped in size and with far more gradients. not just temperature, but air flow and moisture. perhaps even ought to help clean some fungal growths. who knows, but I bet that is key, far more so than having the right lichens and algae to raise them. But no real experience, just field observations and passive captive specimens.

edit. when I say mid 30s, I mean air temperature , not surface temperature. an obvious but key distinction in case any confusion.
 

PillipedeBreeder

Arachnosquire
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
84
Fantastic insights.

To take.it further, I wonder about temperature...I have found them in mid 30s quite consistantly in Thailand and Malaysia. lowland areas. I think the same.can be said for.most captive environments, air flow is really just as key as temperature. a tank that gets to 35 degrees but has open air is a vastly different situation than a closed off environment. this lends well to mushroom growers observationsas well as pet trade/lab captive care.

i personally have a hunch the issue in captivity for many difficult species, aside from diet, is this. tiny cages with stuffy air. even far harder animals like Avicularia species are known to have this issue.

Captive enclosures I feel should be uped in size and with far more gradients. not just temperature, but air flow and moisture. perhaps even ought to help clean some fungal growths. who knows, but I bet that is key, far more so than having the right lichens and algae to raise them. But no real experience, just field observations and passive captive specimens.

edit. when I say mid 30s, I mean air temperature , not surface temperature. an obvious but key distinction in case any confusion.
Hello Kada,
you might be onto something with your suspection of ventilation being a core problem, however disregarding temperature outright is not wise.
People like to oversimplify things. Where did the temperature problem start? With species like those:
Arthrosphaera cf. brandtii from Usambara Mountains (Tanzania), the large white-black „Zephronia“ from the Cameron Highlands (Malaysia), cf. Trigidosphaera (brown-reddish-black) from the same area and Zoosphaerium neptunus (e.g. Maromizaha Reserve) from highlands in Madagascar.
These species inhabit areas that rarely exceed 30 degrees Celsius during the day and may fall down to 10 degrees Celsius in the night. And if you have several species, all which are commonly available that are susceptible to heat, the same is said for every other species too. Even if it’s wrong, better to be safe than sorry, that’s the logic behind it.

But it’s definitely wrong to put that statement on all species as you said. There’s dozens of pill millipedes in Thailand, India, Malaysia and so on that inhabit areas which reach up to 35 degrees Celsius during the day. But there’s also species in the same countries that won’t tolerate this heat. Just today a friend sent me pictures of small-ish Sphaerotheriida he found in Malaysia, at over 25 degrees Celsius during the day, something the large „Zephronia“ from the Cameron Highlands might not survive.

Now when people bought some random Sphaerotheriida and they died after 2 weeks, it’s easily attributed to high temperatures, since a majority of the available specimens (belonging to the aforementioned species) on the market indeed can’t cope with heat. As your pill millipedes won’t tell you why they died, that’s the end of that story and the thinking gets enforced further.

I have to admit, I too have been guilty of saying the same in a generalized matter for pill millipedes. If people had locality data to species they ask about, it would be an easier story to determine the species‘s temperature need. But it’s usually not available, so you rather tell someone to be cautious with temperature than to dismiss it.

Best regards
 

Kada

Arachnobaron
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Joined
May 17, 2023
Messages
533
Very good points!

I think locality would certainly help as a single species might span quite a few varying environments.

I find more difficult in captivity, would be vertical temperature differences in the soil. small containers tend to just become the temperature of the room, both under and over ground. whereas outside it often cools way down (in the tropics). I suppose keeping them on a concrete floor might assist in hot areas, but regular shelf style is pretty easy to just maintain the same as room temp.

This might be an interesting discussion, how to cool down enclosures/rooms. Many keepers in cooler climates dont have that issue, but it seems easier to heat than cool. Outside of AC, what are some tricks?

Our floors are concrete / tile, so cooler loving species basically go on the floor. But that isnt great for viewing. or cleaning haha.
 

mikeandbugs

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 22, 2023
Messages
36
I didnt know this type of millipede existed, i looked it up and im absolutely obsessed
 

JBUSN1990

Arachnopeon
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
8
Fantastic insights.

To take.it further, I wonder about temperature...I have found them in mid 30s quite consistantly in Thailand and Malaysia. lowland areas. I think the same.can be said for.most captive environments, air flow is really just as key as temperature. a tank that gets to 35 degrees but has open air is a vastly different situation than a closed off environment. this lends well to mushroom growers observationsas well as pet trade/lab captive care.

i personally have a hunch the issue in captivity for many difficult species, aside from diet, is this. tiny cages with stuffy air. even far harder animals like Avicularia species are known to have this issue.

Captive enclosures I feel should be uped in size and with far more gradients. not just temperature, but air flow and moisture. perhaps even ought to help clean some fungal growths. who knows, but I bet that is key, far more so than having the right lichens and algae to raise them. But no real experience, just field observations and passive captive specimens.

edit. when I say mid 30s, I mean air temperature , not surface temperature. an obvious but key distinction in case any confusion.
You're right, there are indeed some giant pill millipedes (at least temporarily) that survive in higher temperatures. I have also seen Zephronia profuga walking on sunny ground in Hong Kong, China, at an altitude of only a few tens of meters, and there are many such pills in the area, indicating that they are not completely unable to withstand high temperatures. However, as far as I know, most lowland giant pill millipedes are smaller and less vibrant, so they are rarely seen in the market. Moreover, the air temperature in the forest may not be equivalent to the temperature directly exposed to the millipedes. As you said, artificial environments have lost some of the natural characteristics of forests - in the natural humus layer, temperatures can be two degrees lower than the soil surface. Further down a dozen centimeters, it will be 3-5 degrees lower than the surface. These millipedes may not necessarily have to directly tolerate air temperature for most of the time.
Of course, I fully agree with the importance of ventilation conditions in improving the quality of life of millipedes. As long as humidity can be guaranteed, good ventilation levels make everything better: when the container takes two or three weeks to dry again after spraying water, the mortality rate of giant pills is very high. When I installed the sprinkler system and increased the ventilation to water them every two days, their survival rate improved significantly. However, now I am also raising some millipedes and beetles from high-altitude areas, so I may not be able to try to verify the relationship between ventilation level and high temperature tolerance anymore.
Thanks for your advice!
 

PillipedeBreeder

Arachnosquire
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
84
Hello,

after buying a group of Zephronia enghoffi from Thailand in June, I observed many matings.
IMG_2845.jpeg
IMG_2846.jpeg
Then I found the first eggs in August and yesterday the first babies.
IMG_2847.jpeg IMG_2849.jpeg IMG_2848.jpeg
I will share breeding conditions once I either fail or the babies reach a certain size (let‘s say 10mm).

My research since my last post and now my own observation now makes it clear that good ventilation is absolutely crucial! I think it certainly can be considered a fact now that they like moist substrate with good ventilation. Stuffy conditions quickly are lethal.


Best regards
 

Kada

Arachnobaron
Arachnosupporter
Joined
May 17, 2023
Messages
533
Hello,

after buying a group of Zephronia enghoffi from Thailand in June, I observed many matings.
View attachment 482212
View attachment 482214
Then I found the first eggs in August and yesterday the first babies.
View attachment 482213 View attachment 482215 View attachment 482216
I will share breeding conditions once I either fail or the babies reach a certain size (let‘s say 10mm).

My research since my last post and now my own observation now makes it clear that good ventilation is absolutely crucial! I think it certainly can be considered a fact now that they like moist substrate with good ventilation. Stuffy conditions quickly are lethal.


Best regards
Oh wow, that is fantastic news! They are looking great!

I also feel airflow is hugely under appreciated in the culture of many species. Not even just animals, but in plants. It would seem only the fungus producers truly appreciate the importance of fresh air exchange to a level that is universally accepted.

Your pictures and efforts are incredible to learn from!
 

Elytra and Antenna

Arachnoking
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2,549
I got five a few years ago. Four died over a few months but one is still rolling around. You probably have to buy a bunch to get some healthy ones.
 

Kada

Arachnobaron
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Joined
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Messages
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I got five a few years ago. Four died over a few months but one is still rolling around. You probably have to buy a bunch to get some healthy ones.
For sure. The importation process seems to mostly pretty brutal on the poor guys. I wonder how captive born and raised will fair under better conditions and without the stress of being WC and getting banged around in the shipping process. It's going to be super exciting following your progress with these Lil ones!
 

Glorfindel

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i can see how they got the common name, first glance looks like a Giant Pill bug. lol
 

Kada

Arachnobaron
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To be fair, they we're both named after modern era factory level manufacturing forms of medicine: pills. poor buggers they deserve so much better :lol:
 

Brewser

AraneaeRebel
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Attractive Millipedes with Autumnal Coloration... the leaves are starting to turn colors here in Northeast America.
 
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The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods
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11,428
it is suspected that they a have a particular digestive gut flora that is, at least at this time, unable to be recreated in captivity.
Exactly well said and true. substrate is everything to keep them alive and breeding.
Furthermore they are very sensitive to environmental changes,
Just to mention now that I think about it. When we moved here, recovering rain forest, siting the giant ordinary pedes was common. After about 10 years here my other decided to try and tame our land and had the entire place mowed every few months. Now I haven't seen a pede in 6-7 years. Same with a giant red centipedes. Once a serious hazard, don't have your hands unprotected when grubbing around in the detritus, Last I saw of one was a little 1 1/2 incher two years ago.
Also, the entire property was pretty thick with nightshade. A couple of mowings clearing everything to the dirt they were gone and haven't returned.
Only the scorp population seems to be stable which I attribute to them living in the dirt and we have the same serious loads of seasonal transient bugs. But we haven't had the common house invasion for over five years so they are probably in decline too.
 
Last edited:

JBUSN1990

Arachnopeon
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
8
because you introduced them as additional factors?
Yes friends, I currently keep all my pill millipedes at 23 degrees.

Hello,

after buying a group of Zephronia enghoffi from Thailand in June, I observed many matings.
View attachment 482212
View attachment 482214
Then I found the first eggs in August and yesterday the first babies.
View attachment 482213 View attachment 482215 View attachment 482216
I will share breeding conditions once I either fail or the babies reach a certain size (let‘s say 10mm).

My research since my last post and now my own observation now makes it clear that good ventilation is absolutely crucial! I think it certainly can be considered a fact now that they like moist substrate with good ventilation. Stuffy conditions quickly are lethal.


Best regards
That's so cool! My environment is so simple compared to yours - mine is pretty much the same as keeping beetle larva. I only buy pill millipedes now in spring and fall when the temperature is not above 25 degrees, so they are less likely to GG just after arrive. Mixing with spirobolida works well because pill millipedes are usually sedentary, which can lead to the growth of anaerobic microorganisms (which can be deadly to youngs), and the digging spirobolida help them turn over the humus.
Like I said before, they take 3-4 years to mature. Don't forget to add extra calcium!
 

Attachments

PillipedeBreeder

Arachnosquire
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
84
That's so cool! My environment is so simple compared to yours - mine is pretty much the same as keeping beetle larva. I only buy pill millipedes now in spring and fall when the temperature is not above 25 degrees, so they are less likely to GG just after arrive. Mixing with spirobolida works well because pill millipedes are usually sedentary, which can lead to the growth of anaerobic microorganisms (which can be deadly to youngs), and the digging spirobolida help them turn over the humus.
Like I said before, they take 3-4 years to mature. Don't forget to add extra calcium!
Hello,
yes that is correct - I am looking to find as many food sources as possible to be able to feed them properly.
Unfortunately I have not found a perfectly suitable mat yet that I can use. But I continue looking and testing.

Using Spirobolids to aerate the soil is logical enough, but are you not worried about them crushing small babies or molting pill millipedes? Depending on the Spirobolida size that is be a concern for me.

Where is the pictured species from? Reminds me of Zephroniids from Thailand.

Best regards
 
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