Thai Giant Pill Millipedes

[ElCatt]

Hi!

I'm super new to this forum and it's my first post, it's nice to meet you all <3

I love isopods and millipedes and have been keeping them for a while, and was wondering if anyone here has experience with Thai Giant Pill Millipedes. I really want one and it looks like places online do sell them, but they've been perpetually out of stock and I've been checking regularly for a month or so, so I was wondering if any of you guys knew of breeders who keep/have these.

Thank you so much!

 

[CutThroat Kid]

Could always fly to Africa and poach your own. Otherwise, you'll just have to wait for some other ambitious poacher to smuggle some in for UGR or whoever else sells those. My understanding is they (or most pillipedes) do not reproduce well, if at all, in captivity. So, all stock will have to be caught in the wild, aka poached from their habitats. They aren't very popular for this reason, as well as that their diet is apparently difficult to support so they are regarded as a "buy to die" pet.

Sad, because they do seem very cool. I would take success stories about them with a grain of salt too. If they worked, they would probably be more popular than isopods.

 

[ElCatt]

Could always fly to Africa and poach your own. Otherwise, you'll just have to wait for some other ambitious poacher to smuggle some in for UGR or whoever else sells those. My understanding is they (or most pillipedes) do not reproduce well, if at all, in captivity. So, all stock will have to be caught in the wild, aka poached from their habitats. They aren't very popular for this reason, as well as that their diet is apparently difficult to support so they are regarded as a "buy to die" pet.

Sad, because they do seem very cool. I would take success stories about them with a grain of salt too. If they worked, they would probably be more popular than isopods.

Oh, I didn't know they're not good in captivity! In that case I'm not gonna get one, it would be really depressing if it died or wasn't happy in captivity. Do you happen to know if any of the other pill millipede species are good in captivity? It seems like a lot of people have the "candy stripe" pill millipedes, so I'm assuming they breed in captivity since a ton of sellers sell them in large batches? Or, are they also being poached, but it's just easier to find them?

Thank you so much for ur reply <3

 

[CutThroat Kid]

Here's an old quote on the 'candy pill' from another thread.

It's thought the giant ones have gut microbes to help them break down wood, and that it's hard for them to re-acquire the microbes in captivity. I did hear of one person who kept one alive for two years, but that was the exception, and they're thought to live decades in the wild. Most animals just haven't been figured out, and this is one of them.

Like I mentioned, it is suspected that they a have a particular digestive gut flora that is, at least at this time, unable to be recreated in captivity. And large stock doesn't necessarily imply that they have been bred in captivity, (it's never been recorded as far as I know) just that poachers are taking large quantities from the wild unfortunately. I'm sure that where they are found there can be many at a time.

Could get a dried preserved one if you must see in person. Most ethical option imo.

 

[ElCatt]

Here's an old quote on the 'candy pill' from another thread.



Like I mentioned, it is suspected that they a have a particular digestive gut flora that is, at least at this time, unable to be recreated in captivity. And large stock doesn't necessarily imply that they have been bred in captivity, (it's never been recorded as far as I know) just that poachers are taking large quantities from the wild unfortunately. I'm sure that where they are found there can be many at a time.

Okay, that makes sense! Tysm for replying <3 In that case, I'll stick to isopods and regular millipedes for now, and hopefully in the future someone figures out how to keep pill millipedes healthy and happy in captivity ^-^ They are SO cute

 

[CutThroat Kid]

Okay, that makes sense! Tysm for replying <3 In that case, I'll stick to isopods and regular millipedes for now, and hopefully in the future someone figures out how to keep pill millipedes healthy and happy in captivity ^-^ They are SO cute

Yeah, it's a shame. I remember going down the same road and being disappointed to see they aren't established in the hobby. Like the best of both worlds between millis and isopods.

I love my ivory pedes though, can't lie! I don't think there's a better pede.

 

[Liquifin]

Otherwise, you'll just have to wait for some other ambitious poacher to smuggle some in for UGR or whoever else sells those.

Exports and imports usually all come from the same exporters/importers. Even some Reptile sellers and Arachnid sellers share the same exporters. The difference is that Arachnid owners don't have nearly the same budget or people to export/import in large volume as reptile businesses. It's a small world in some cases.

 

[SpookySpooder]

While the information in this thread is generally correct, there have been several millipedes species reported to have bred successfully in captivity in recent years. If you do want to ethically own a millipede, do research into the ones that have been reared in captivity.

This does limit you to a handful of species, but it's better than nothing.

EDIT: Whoops you're talking about the pill-ipedes

 

[CutThroat Kid]

While the information in this thread is generally correct, there have been several millipedes species reported to have bred successfully in captivity in recent years. If you do want to ethically own a millipede, do research into the ones that have been reared in captivity.

This does limit you to a handful of species, but it's better than nothing.

Which Pill Millipedes have been bred in captivity? Could you please point me to one of these reports? I would love to read up on this.

 

[SpookySpooder]

No you are correct, I misread the posts, I was thinking millipedes when you were talking about Pill-ipedes

 

[Wolfram1]

Well we certainly had some threads discussing initial successes.


I think it was mostly south african species that do fairly well though, not so much tropical ones. I hope i do remember this right. Anyway, i am sure that if you search the forums or media section you should find some examples and thus the people to ask.


for example, @PillipedeBreeder

Glomeris marginata WC and WF1

Two WC and three WF1 babies from my second breeding group.

arachnoboards.com

or @hamfist, with this thread:

Pill Millipede, Sphaerotherium giganteum, update

I received 5 of these 3 months ago in November, and posted my excitement online in a couple of places. I was roundly criticised by a few at being foolish enough to buy creatures which were bound for a quick death in captivity. Many simply wished me miraculous levels of luck in my endeavour...

arachnoboards.com

 

[NocturnalSkies]

Hilariously enough, I just logged onto here after being away for months to post about pill millipedes lol.

I have 2 zephronia sp that have been alive for 2 months. They live in a very old well established detrivore tank. I set up this tank like 4 years ago with your typical millipede substrate, rotten oak, leaf litter, moss, calcium etc I’ve bred scarlets and Smokey oaks in there(still tons of Smokey oak babies in there rn), mushrooms regularly bloom in there, very high humidity, there used to be pleasing fungus beetles and other millys in there who died of old age. Currently what’s living in there rn is tybolus sp, a very old spirostreptus sp #3, an N. Americanus, springtails and dwarf isopods. I know people say the isopods are bad for the molting millipedes but they somehow got in there, and seem to cause no harm to the molting baby Smokey oaks of which there’s an overwhelming amount in there.
I had another zephronia, that I tried to set up in a new enclosure with the same material. This one died within a week. The 2 mentioned above I purchased after the death of this one.

I have a theory that part of the key to keeping them lies in some sort of environmental cycling. Like one does with fish. The main difference between a new set up with the same substrates and materials and my detrivore tank is time. I believe they may only eat small pieces of organic material in advanced states of decay and have a symbiotic relationship with microorganisms.Tonight I’m watching mine chew on moss and mushroom stems but they immediately roll up when they see light it’s hard to document anything.

if they survive 5 months I’ll make a thread about them

 

[Wolfram1]

Good thinking.

Perhaps they are also involved in breaking down dead organic matter like old exosceletons or can draw nutrients from the excrements of some of the primary detrivores, along with feeding on fungi, mycelium and other biota that has to build up first.

In any case a well started/run in substrate does seem like it could be hugely important. Thx for sharing.

 

[CutThroat Kid]

if they survive 5 months I’ll make a thread about them

I would keep your expectations low…
Like I mentioned, If they worked, they would be established in the hobby already, no offense. Sounds like you’ve already had one die too. Still, gotta respect your dedication to proving wrong the buy-to-die moniker.

in my opinion the best bet would just be to bring home a scoop of dirt from wherever they got poached from. Unfortunately it’s even harder to smuggle soil than it is bugs most of the time.

 

[hamfist]

Candy Pill Millipedes, Rhopalomeris carnifex, have been regularly bred in captivity, although are not a beginner species. Many of the Glomeris genus are also regularly kept and bred in captivity.
To my knowledge there are no reputable reports of any of the giant Asian species or Giant Madagascan species being bred or even kept successfully in captivity.
A mid-sized species, Arthrosphearium cf. brandtii, which is originally from Asia but has colonised in Tanzania seems a bit more keepable and there is one extremely reliable source who has bred them too.
Giant South African pills, Spaerotherium giganteum ( or similar) are brand newly imported to the hobby, I seem to be the main early owner posting on the www and these seem very keepable. Mine seem to be doing well on very well decayed leaf litter after 8 months, but no signs of young as yet.
The problem is that people read something on the web about "pill millipedes" and they just lump them all together. As one can see, they can respond very differently in captivity.

I liked Nocturnal Skies comment above (about Giant Pills) ..... " I believe they may only eat small pieces of organic material in advanced states of decay and have a symbiotic relationship with microorganisms. ". I have noticed that my S.giganteum definitely have a preference for very well rotted leaf litter, in very small pieces. I now shred all the leaf litter I give them with a food blender. They simply will not try and eat pieces of larger leaves. Ditto, the leaf litter I put in is very well rotted in my "wet leaf litter sack", in which I "brew" all my leaves.

 

[Lots Of Legs Thailand]

Here's an old quote on the 'candy pill' from another thread.



Like I mentioned, it is suspected that they a have a particular digestive gut flora that is, at least at this time, unable to be recreated in captivity. And large stock doesn't necessarily imply that they have been bred in captivity, (it's never been recorded as far as I know) just that poachers are taking large quantities from the wild unfortunately. I'm sure that where they are found there can be many at a time.

Could get a dried preserved one if you must see in person. Most ethical option imo.

Which Pill Millipedes have been bred in captivity? Could you please point me to one of these reports? I would love to read up on this.

Could always fly to Africa and poach your own. Otherwise, you'll just have to wait for some other ambitious poacher to smuggle some in for UGR or whoever else sells those. My understanding is they (or most pillipedes) do not reproduce well, if at all, in captivity. So, all stock will have to be caught in the wild, aka poached from their habitats. They aren't very popular for this reason, as well as that their diet is apparently difficult to support so they are regarded as a "buy to die" pet.

Sad, because they do seem very cool. I would take success stories about them with a grain of salt too. If they worked, they would probably be more popular than isopods.

Good thinking.

Perhaps they are also involved in breaking down dead organic matter like old exosceletons or can draw nutrients from the excrements of some of the primary detrivores, along with feeding on fungi, mycelium and other biota that has to build up first.

In any case a well started/run in substrate does seem like it could be hugely important. Thx for sharing.

@Wolfram1 Exactly well said and true. substrate is everything to keep them alive and breeding. The soil must be living soil with mycelium network, add some mykorrhiza and plants from native location if you can get hold of it well before you add them to the terrarium ( mix soil with mykorriza then cover with cling wrap and put in a dark place for a few days, it will go fury ontop, mix that up again then plant your plants) Then a week after that add them in . They must have a gradient of 30% moisture in the soil to almost dry from one side to the other so only spray one side of your terrarium. Soak leaf matter and sticks/twigs overnight in rain water and sprinkle over the entire terrarium and they love decaying papaya fruit if you can get it.

Hope it helps much love

 

[PillipedeBreeder]

Hello,
I‘ll just give my two cents on the topic because I‘ve been working with pill millipedes for three years now. Luckily most was already said, but I think this should be new.
Breedings of Giant Pill Millipedes (Sphaerotheriida) are rarely bred, because not only are many species sensitive to environmental changes, but also because importers in their countries tend to keep them on unsuitable substrates like coco coir for weeks or months before they are shipped to the west, thus we are only recieving already weakened or half dead individuals.
And then there’s the importers in our countries selling them no disregard for animal wellbeing and continue keeping them on coco coir.

This of course is old news, so here’s the catch:

Now with practically all pill millipedes available by retailers being already more dead then alive, most people buying them don’t keep them right either.
Not the keep-on-coco-coir-right, I mean „advanced“ failure to meet their needs.
The few breeding reports for Sphaerotheriida that exist (which are all from South East Asian species except Sphaerotherium sp. from South Africa) all have a common link as I realized: the substrate needs to be very moist, basically soaking w, for oviposition to occur and juveniles to grow up.

(The substrate should be decaying leaves mixed with decaying wood or simply blacksoil, it works best.)

However as it is with soaking wet organic matter, it tends to start rotting caused by an lack of oxygen in the substrate. And this rot has killed the offspring in a few cases of Sphaerotheriida breeding.

So one has to find the sweet spot of a high quality substrate with just enough moisture to achieve breeding, but not too much moisture to have it rot.

Furthermore they are very sensitive to environmental changes, simply moving the box from one room to another can be enough stress for the pill millipedes to die. This happened to a friend of mine who bred Sphaerobelum sp. from Thailand.

So even when the substrate composition, the food is right, simply keeping Giant Pill Millipedes at average millipede moisture is not enough.
We‘re still lacking breeding reports that go beyond F2, the only one I know is actually for the aforementioned Arthrosphaera cf. brandtii.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

Best regards

 

[Liquifin]

Hello,
I‘ll just give my two cents on the topic because I‘ve been working with pill millipedes for three years now. Luckily most was already said, but I think this should be new.
Breedings of Giant Pill Millipedes (Sphaerotheriida) are rarely bred, because not only are many species sensitive to environmental changes, but also because importers in their countries tend to keep them on unsuitable substrates like coco coir for weeks or months before they are shipped to the west, thus we are only recieving already weakened or half dead individuals.
And then there’s the importers in our countries selling them no disregard for animal wellbeing and continue keeping them on coco coir.

This of course is old news, so here’s the catch:

Now with practically all pill millipedes available by retailers being already more dead then alive, most people buying them don’t keep them right either.
Not the keep-on-coco-coir-right, I mean „advanced“ failure to meet their needs.
The few breeding reports for Sphaerotheriida that exist (which are all from South East Asian species except Sphaerotherium sp. from South Africa) all have a common link as I realized: the substrate needs to be very moist, basically soaking w, for oviposition to occur and juveniles to grow up.

(The substrate should be decaying leaves mixed with decaying wood or simply blacksoil, it works best.)

However as it is with soaking wet organic matter, it tends to start rotting caused by an lack of oxygen in the substrate. And this rot has killed the offspring in a few cases of Sphaerotheriida breeding.

So one has to find the sweet spot of a high quality substrate with just enough moisture to achieve breeding, but not too much moisture to have it rot.

Furthermore they are very sensitive to environmental changes, simply moving the box from one room to another can be enough stress for the pill millipedes to die. This happened to a friend of mine who bred Sphaerobelum sp. from Thailand.

So even when the substrate composition, the food is right, simply keeping Giant Pill Millipedes at average millipede moisture is not enough.
We‘re still lacking breeding reports that go beyond F2, the only one I know is actually for the aforementioned Arthrosphaera cf. brandtii.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

Best regards

I feel like all of this are things we already know, which is the reason why OP started the thread. This more or less just adds speculation and not necessarily add anything new or solid. I do appreciate input but no offense.

 

[PillipedeBreeder]

Hello,
sorry, I might have gotten a bit off track, my mainpoint is that you need very high moisture for the substrate and with that, some Sphaerotheriida are very much breedable.
I personally haven’t seen it explicitly mentioned anywhere, that’s why I added it.

I am sorry if it didn’t quite made the difference.

Best regards

 

[Kada]

Some random pics and observations from the wild (Malaysia, Borneo and Thailand). Not much to add, but wild accounts will probbaly help with these guys in captivity. As noted, found it fairly wet areas, but more often in well drained areas that get heavy dew and frequent rains. we find so many more on rocks and trees on cliffs than anywhere else.

These quite little guys were found next to the beach with about 15m of forest between them and the ocean. SE Malaysia.
Habitat

Habitat and feeding

Random pics cause they're cute. Note this was a dry overcast day, not the moisture on the moss. Always seem to be around moisture, but always have dry areas around as well. Something i havent seen many people replicate in captive environments very well.