Tarantulas Seized by Colombian Authorities

[Frogdaddy]

this is precisely my point tho i don’t think it’s on the consumer - i can kvetch all i want but the fact remains that if i am in the US and i want a P. metallica sling or some other species from the Poecilotheria genus i will have to pay $100+ usd as there is no other option

if you go with the major dealers you have to pay these absurd prices - if you go with local pet stores, not only will you be contributing to their but will also have to pay ridiculous prices there too, tho! $80-$100 for an adult B. hamorii does seem better than the $300+ you would have to pay from an established arachnid dealer

which is why your friend has the right idea and when i get my breeding projects going i am going to do exactly this - just flood the market with v cheap but high quality specimens to force price cuts

This makes me think about a breeders co-op. If that level of organization and cooperation could be achieved.

 

[goliathusdavid]

This makes me think about a breeders co-op. If that level of organization and cooperation could be achieved.

If only... yet such organization is extremely hard to achieve among a widely spread hobby full of differing viewpoints and ideas of what is best. And that's not even mentioning the resources required to actually do pedigree and SSP style breeding recommendations.

At the end of the day, smuggling is impossible to separate from the hobby. This isn't some problem of bad apples, and we need to stop pretending like it is. The hobby has done some good and also a whole lot of bad. It's up to each individual to decide what the net result is.

^And also what their own action is. Individual action won't end the larger issue, but it's nevertheless important to consider where you stand and what you will do as a hobbyist.

 

[Arthroverts]

If only... yet such organization is extremely hard to achieve among a widely spread hobby full of differing viewpoints and ideas of what is best. And that's not even mentioning the resources required to actually do pedigree and SSP style breeding recommendations.

At the end of the day, smuggling is impossible to separate from the hobby. This isn't some problem of bad apples, and we need to stop pretending like it is. The hobby has done some good and also a whole lot of bad. It's up to each individual to decide what the net result is.

I think the bigger problem with running a co-op is two-fold: maintaining communication and standardizing practices. Both of these tend to be difficult to start and maintain for something that for most people is a hobby in the strictest sense of the word, and developing a professional front of a casual interest is just not going to happen.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[YungRasputin]

This makes me think about a breeders co-op. If that level of organization and cooperation could be achieved.

irrespective of the aforementioned challenges i actually really love the idea because my main focus on getting into serious breeding is essentially non-profit

i just want to use the hobby to combat the ravages of climate change and human development/hyper-consumption by increasing numbers of endangered species/genera and if i could upturn the American arachnid keeping community on its head while doing so this would be a bonus

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

We’re all to blame for purchasing offsprings and adults animals from smugglers. Most arachnid members know who these people are. What matters is now, and what we should do as individuals to correct these issue. Unfortunately I believe arachnid hobbyists will continue to contribute of supporting them in some way.

 

[Frogdaddy]

We’re all to blame for purchasing offsprings and adults animals from smugglers. Most arachnid members know who these people are.

Perhaps more old timers know. I don't know who they are. Care to publicly name names? Other hobbies actually call people out.
Maybe if that happens it would be a first step. How can you avoid buying from a smuggler if you don't know who they are?

I'm in no way singling you or anyone else out. I honestly do not know who the smugglers are. I do know that if it was public knowledge and not such a damn secret hobbyists would be less likely to buy from those people and the hobby would be better off for it.

 

[Egon]

What does "PDF hobbyists" mean? I'm new to tarantulas but keep snakes and still don't know what it stands for. Thanks.

 

[Frogdaddy]

What does "PDF hobbyists" mean? I'm new to tarantulas but keep snakes and still don't know what it stands for. Thanks.

Poison Dart Frogs

 

[Egon]

Poison Dart Frogs

Ah, thank you!

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Perhaps more old timers know. I don't know who they are. Care to publicly name names? Other hobbies actually call people out.
Maybe if that happens it would be a first step. How can you avoid buying from a smuggler if you don't know who they are?

I'm in no way singling you or anyone else out. I honestly do not know who the smugglers are. I do know that if it was public knowledge and not such a damn secret hobbyists would be less likely to buy from those people and the hobby would be better off for it.

It doesn’t matter whether we know or don’t know of who the smugglers are. Exotics animals are sold in the market for a reason. In many cases exotic animals are smuggled. Therefore we’re all guilty in some point in our life of contributing and supporting sellers that have these none legit exotic animals. Is the circle of life of the black market.

 

[goliathusdavid]

It doesn’t matter whether we know or don’t know of who the smugglers are. Exotics animals are sold in the market for a reason. In many cases exotic animals are smuggled. Therefore we’re all guilty in some point in our life of contributing and supporting sellers that have these none legit exotic animals. Is the circle of life of the black market.

Yes and no. While I certainly concur that there is a collective guilt that must be faced, naming names is not in any way a pointless undertaking. As long the wheels of justice may take to turn and as much smuggling as I have seen ignored, there have also been successful seizures, successful prosecutions, and victories, whether at the hands of CITES enforcement, INTERPOL, of USFWS. Do these successes even begin to scratch the surface of the global wildlife trade? No. But they are nevertheless valuable. Just as there is value in calling out smugglers while still acknowledging the inherent links between the wildlife trade and smuggling. Acknowledging a systemic issue shouldn't stop us from exposing individuals who profit off it.

 

[Frogdaddy]

It doesn’t matter whether we know or don’t know of who the smugglers are. Exotics animals are sold in the market for a reason. In many cases exotic animals are smuggled. Therefore we’re all guilty in some point in our life of contributing and supporting sellers that have these none legit exotic animals. Is the circle of life of the black market.

Oh. So what you're saying is you know who smuggles. You just don't give a damn enough to do anything about it. Gotcha. But you'll bitch that is a problem in the hobby and everyone just accept it. What a <edit> attitude. Exactly the type of Good 'ol boys mentality that's not needed. Why the reluctance? No one wants to turn in their buddies they bought smuggled spiders from.

 

[Nightstalker47]

You guys are missing the point, facts speak for themselves, sanctimonious views on smuggling being bad shouldn't even be brought up...we know and agree.

 

[Hakuna]

I just wish they didn’t destroy the animals in question. That needs to stop.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Oh. So what you're saying is you know who smuggles. You just don't give a damn enough to do anything about it. Gotcha. But you'll bitch that is a problem in the hobby and everyone just accept it. What a BS attitude. Exactly the type of Good 'ol boys mentality that's not needed. Why the reluctance? No one wants to turn in their buddies they bought smuggled spiders from.

It’s been a problem in the hobby before you were ever born lol.

 

[goliathusdavid]

I just wish they didn’t destroy the animals in question. That needs to stop.

I agree with you on this, but I also understand the inherent complexities associated with reintroduction. Given the huge number of animals being smuggled out, zoos and institutions are not always an option, and reintroduction of possibly diseased animals to wild populations can be disastrous.

That said, I don't think such animal destruction actually happens nearly as much as you might think. I can't speak to Colombia but I know pretty much all invert seizures in the US by FWS are distributed among various zoos and other USDA accredited facilities. If there is ANY way to avoid euthanasia that wont encourage the trade as a result they will do it.

It's a lot better rate than PETA shelters that's for sure.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Many know who the tall German smuggler dude is in this picture. How many tarantulas you think he has smuggled and sold to the USA and other parts of the world in his years? https://www.financecolombia.com/ger...arrested-in-colombia-for-tarantula-smuggling/

The trend continues……..like I said we’re all guilty in some point in our lives of supporting it.

 

[Frogdaddy]

It’s been a problem in the hobby before you were ever born lol.

Dude I'm in my 50's, but no doubt that statement is true.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Dude I'm in my 50's, but no doubt that statement is true.

So am I.