tarantula torture with a smily face is the dark den the new exotics lair?

[Eagle555 Jumping spiders]

He had already been deleting the negative comments from his" can tarantulas swim" video .
But the fan club are all saying how amazing he is for making such a great video .
The worst but for me was on about the third dunking he gave one spider when that big air bubble comes out .
Or the obviously scared blondie that was not floating like the smaller spiders .
He does a good job of making the video look organic and an amazing surprise to him but i make videos and know fully well this was the result of good editing .
I wander just how many spiders will be "going for a swim"as a result of this video now .
I hope it was worth it for the views .

Don’t y’all love a good conversation thread? Where Viper is using “” emojis? Cause same

 

[Liquifin]

This is a situation where everyone is going to have to agree-to-disagree. Because it's really going to go nowhere if there are two opposites on different sides. Whether you like or dislike a content creator is on you. But arguing or trying to make statement to be in the right isn't going to go anywhere if your position or stance is different.

 

[DustyD]

you are not even close bud, not even remotely.
he's deleted the immature hate comments, like yours, not anything thoughtful and respectful.

Did he leave any that were critical?
There were none in the first 50 comments.

My comments here are legitimate . But rather than discuss my point about the similarities between what Petko did and what others do, you just brand them as immature and hate comments. That’s a sign you have no logical response, bud.

 

[JDS123]

Did he leave any that were critical?
There were none in the first 50 comments.

My comments here are legitimate . But rather than discuss my point about the similarities between what Petko did and what others do, you just brand them as immature and hate comments. That’s a sign you have no logical response, bud.

there was nothing to discuss, the fact you found that even remotely similar just shows who were dealing with. Nothing personal against you, just mean that the comparison is so illogical that it seems we shouldn't even have to explain why.

I see your point on the deleting comments, not sure what all he's deleted, but your comparison was just too over the top to discuss realy.

sry bud just my opinion.

wish no harm

 

[waynerowley]

They dont have the same emotional stress as we do, say our leg was about to be sawed off, vs if someone pushed us in a pool, we would be like dammit now i gotta swim out.

So that makes it okay to deliberately mistreat an animal for the sake of clicks and likes?

It was a very good thing to see how each species will react, and each species abilities.

The best and only valid way to determine that is to study them in the wild, not to experiment on pets.

Now you see some can actually be set up in different types of enclosures.

You see which ones can float and swim better than others.

On the basis of an internet dude dropping them in water to see if they can swim. No thanks.

Dont forget these are not baby kittens, think of the science behind the anatomy, and its life in the wild.

So as long as we're not doing it to kittens it doesn't matter to adversely treat an animal in our care?

BTW 'baby kittens' is a tautology - kittens are baby cats.

I think the parts with the bottle were pushy, otherwise, we really need to stop acting like this was like throwing a baby in the ocean.

I don't think people are doing that, but are (quite rightly) expressing concern and unhappiness at someone who is needlessly subjecting their pets to something that they don't need, get no benefit from and may find stressful, all for the sake of pleasing their internet followers and fans.

Did it get views and help his channel, sure, do I want others to do it, no.

Monkey see, monkey do...

The die hard hate for anything outside their own thoughts has got to stop in this hobby.

No, but they have legitimate concerns for the welfare of animals in our care - whether they be kittens or spiders!

As you have said yourself, expressing an opinion that is different to yours is not hatred.

But abuse is abuse, surely?

We need to recruit as many people as possible to protect our lifestyles of keeping exotics.

Subjecting our exotics to experimentation/abuse publicly on the internet is not going to help is it?

Peopl are eating these animals all day, I was not happy with each move he made, but some of you have got to stop acting like they have the same emotions as not only us, but even a cat or dog, or even a snake.

It's not about them (the Ts) but about us! How much mistreatment in human history has been justified by statements such as 'they don't have the same emotions/intelligence' - both animal and human?

We should be better than this!

Now, I will be pissed if a bunch of ppl start doing it, because its being done by him now, and I could see a few more species, but if others jump on this to gain views as a copy cat then I will not be happy.

Monkey see, monkey do...

hes a good dude. I see what your saying, hard to do T vids forever, nobody is perfect, its sad how many ppl expect perfection and a duplicate of themselves while watching others.

I've said this before in other posts about Pekto. I watched him a couple of years ago and I looked up to/respected him for the husbandry I saw and the care he gave. He's changed a lot since then:

- No water bowls in his enclosures
- No labelling of enclosures for species
- Frequently walks away from enclosures leaving doors wide open
- His method of re-housing seems deliberately careless and provoking to the Ts - designed to trigger threat postures/bolts/escapes
- No detailed husbandry information

He used to be a passionate hobbyist with a YouTube channel. Now he's a showman with an audience to please.

It shows.

Wayne

 

[dman13760]

I usually enjoy Petko's content, especially his older stuff. I wasn't a fan of this latest video so I didn't "Like" or comment on it

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I just finished watching the video and was pleasantly surprised on how well it was done. This was one of the most interesting tarantula videos I have seen on YouTube. The tarantulas were in a controlled and supervised environment. None of the ones subjected to the water were in any kind of distress or risk of harm. If anyone was paying the least amount of attention, none of the tarantulas were even wet due to their hydrophobic hairs and cuticle. What makes the video so fascinating is seeing how quickly the tarantulas adapt their stride to water. I found the Poecilotheria species, which made attempts to hide in a plastic bottle while submerged, to be the best example of how well their hydrophobic bodies work. That one in particular didn't even seem to care it was under water so long as it had a solid surface to rest on. All it wanted to do was hide just as one would expect from a Poecilotheria species on dry land. Although each one of the tarantulas tested obviously did not enjoy being in water, none of them appeared to have been traumatized by the experience since they all resumed normal behavior when they left the water on their own or by Dark Den.

The only gripe I have is the lack of a literature review before doing the experiment to have an idea of what to expect first, but he did make accurate predictions and actually replicated the same submersion technique in the one published article. A quick search of Google Scholar would have revealed that observing the swimming behavior of tarantulas was done before by Jason Dunlop in 1996 and the observations published in the "Forum of the American Tarantula Society." Comparing the description Dunlop gave of how a tarantula swims, Dark Den would have been better informed of what to expect and what to look for. I imagine if he knew that what he was doing was done before, he would have done a slow motion video of the leg movements and compared them to how Dunlop described it in the article. Spoiler alert, the swimming technique of all tarantulas Dark Den tested matched the way the article described it. That is absolutely fascinating because it would seem all tarantulas have a built in instinct for how to deal with water.

Reading the comments in this thread, I am disappointed that more people can't recognize when a tarantula is in distress and when they are fine. I think there is some kind of expectation of how a tarantula is supposed to react to water based on an expectation on how other animals would react which simply doesn't apply. This Dark Den guy appears to exercise caution in his "swimming tarantulas" video and has the ability to know when enough is enough. He got that male Theraphosa blondi out of the container of water real quick when he saw it didn't float like the others. If anyone puts their own tarantulas at risk of harm by attempting to replicate this experiment, or would assume that a tarantula likes water and should be subjected to it on a regular basis in a new caging setup, then it would be on them for not using their brain and not on Dark Den for setting a bad example.

Literature Referenced:
Dunlop, J. (1996). Swimming in tarantulas. In Forum American Tarantula Society (Vol. 5, pp. 79-81).

 

[l4nsky]

I just finished watching the video and was pleasantly surprised on how well it was done. This was one of the most interesting tarantula videos I have seen on YouTube. The tarantulas were in a controlled and supervised environment. None of the ones subjected to the water were in any kind of distress or risk of harm. If anyone was paying the least amount of attention, none of the tarantulas were even wet due to their hydrophobic hairs and cuticle. What makes the video so fascinating is seeing how quickly the tarantulas adapt their stride to water. I found the Poecilotheria species, which made attempts to hide in a plastic bottle while submerged, to be the best example of how well their hydrophobic bodies work. That one in particular didn't even seem to care it was under water so long as it had a solid surface to rest on. All it wanted to do was hide just as one would expect from a Poecilotheria species on dry land. Although each one of the tarantulas tested obviously did not enjoy being in water, none of them appeared to have been traumatized by the experience since they all resumed normal behavior when they left the water on their own or by Dark Den.

The only gripe I have is the lack of a literature review before doing the experiment to have an idea of what to expect first, but he did make accurate predictions and actually replicated the same submersion technique in the one published article. A quick search of Google Scholar would have revealed that observing the swimming behavior of tarantulas was done before by Jason Dunlop in 1996 and the observations published in the "Forum of the American Tarantula Society." Comparing the description Dunlop gave of how a tarantula swims, Dark Den would have been better informed of what to expect and what to look for. I imagine if he knew that what he was doing was done before, he would have done a slow motion video of the leg movements and compared them to how Dunlop described it in the article. Spoiler alert, the swimming technique of all tarantulas Dark Den tested matched the way the article described it. That is absolutely fascinating because it would seem all tarantulas have a built in instinct for how to deal with water.

Reading the comments in this thread, I am disappointed that more people can't recognize when a tarantula is in distress and when they are fine. I think there is some kind of expectation of how a tarantula is supposed to react to water based on an expectation on how other animals would react which simply doesn't apply. This Dark Den guy appears to exercise caution in his "swimming tarantulas" video and has the ability to know when enough is enough. He got that male Theraphosa blondi out of the container of water real quick when he saw it didn't float like the others. If anyone puts their own tarantulas at risk of harm by attempting to replicate this experiment, or would assume that a tarantula likes water and should be subjected to it on a regular basis in a new caging setup, then it would be on them for not using their brain and not on Dark Den for setting a bad example.

Literature Referenced:
Dunlop, J. (1996). Swimming in tarantulas. In Forum American Tarantula Society (Vol. 5, pp. 79-81).

VERY well written and sourced.

 

[campj]

My biggest gripe is the faces he makes in his thumbnails.

 

[viper69]

Isn’t this the same reasoning used for those videos where animals are pitted against each other in small enclosures? Like tarantula vs frog, mouse vs scorpion etc.

It's close in my opinion. You take an animal and subject it UNNECESSARILY to a stimuli to see its response- we might as well put Ts in battery acid at this rate.

Another one of those "Oh we are doing it for the science" I suspect.

So that makes it okay to deliberately mistreat an animal for the sake of clicks and likes?



The best and only valid way to determine that is to study them in the wild, not to experiment on pets.



On the basis of an internet dude dropping them in water to see if they can swim. No thanks.



So as long as we're not doing it to kittens it doesn't matter to adversely treat an animal in our care?

BTW 'baby kittens' is a tautology - kittens are baby cats.



I don't think people are doing that, but are (quite rightly) expressing concern and unhappiness at someone who is needlessly subjecting their pets to something that they don't need, get no benefit from and may find stressful, all for the sake of pleasing their internet followers and fans.



Monkey see, monkey do...



No, but they have legitimate concerns for the welfare of animals in our care - whether they be kittens or spiders!

As you have said yourself, expressing an opinion that is different to yours is not hatred.

But abuse is abuse, surely?



Subjecting our exotics to experimentation/abuse publicly on the internet is not going to help is it?



It's not about them (the Ts) but about us! How much mistreatment in human history has been justified by statements such as 'they don't have the same emotions/intelligence' - both animal and human?

We should be better than this!



Monkey see, monkey do...



I've said this before in other posts about Pekto. I watched him a couple of years ago and I looked up to/respected him for the husbandry I saw and the care he gave. He's changed a lot since then:

- No water bowls in his enclosures
- No labelling of enclosures for species
- Frequently walks away from enclosures leaving doors wide open
- His method of re-housing seems deliberately careless and provoking to the Ts - designed to trigger threat postures/bolts/escapes
- No detailed husbandry information

He used to be a passionate hobbyist with a YouTube channel. Now he's a showman with an audience to please.

It shows.

Wayne

Spot on- you wrote all the important things I wouldn't take the time to write- well written. He is actually a member of the AB forum FIRST, then he started YouTube, then he left here......

 

[JDS123]

So that makes it okay to deliberately mistreat an animal for the sake of clicks and likes?































The best and only valid way to determine that is to study them in the wild, not to experiment on pets.































On the basis of an internet dude dropping them in water to see if they can swim. No thanks.































So as long as we're not doing it to kittens it doesn't matter to adversely treat an animal in our care?















BTW 'baby kittens' is a tautology - kittens are baby cats.































I don't think people are doing that, but are (quite rightly) expressing concern and unhappiness at someone who is needlessly subjecting their pets to something that they don't need, get no benefit from and may find stressful, all for the sake of pleasing their internet followers and fans.































Monkey see, monkey do...































No, but they have legitimate concerns for the welfare of animals in our care - whether they be kittens or spiders!















As you have said yourself, expressing an opinion that is different to yours is not hatred.















But abuse is abuse, surely?































Subjecting our exotics to experimentation/abuse publicly on the internet is not going to help is it?































It's not about them (the Ts) but about us! How much mistreatment in human history has been justified by statements such as 'they don't have the same emotions/intelligence' - both animal and human?















We should be better than this!































Monkey see, monkey do...































I've said this before in other posts about Pekto. I watched him a couple of years ago and I looked up to/respected him for the husbandry I saw and the care he gave. He's changed a lot since then:















- No water bowls in his enclosures







- No labelling of enclosures for species







- Frequently walks away from enclosures leaving doors wide open







- His method of re-housing seems deliberately careless and provoking to the Ts - designed to trigger threat postures/bolts/escapes







- No detailed husbandry information















He used to be a passionate hobbyeh your ist with a YouTube channel. Now he's a showman with an audience to please.















It shows.















Wayne

So that makes it okay to deliberately mistreat an animal for the sake of clicks and likes?















The best and only valid way to determine that is to study them in the wild, not to experiment on pets.















On the basis of an internet dude dropping them in water to see if they can swim. No thanks.















So as long as we're not doing it to kittens it doesn't matter to adversely treat an animal in our care?







BTW 'baby kittens' is a tautology - kittens are baby cats.















I don't think people are doing that, but are (quite rightly) expressing concern and unhappiness at someone who is needlessly subjecting their pets to something that they don't need, get no benefit from and may find stressful, all for the sake of pleasing their internet followers and fans.















Monkey see, monkey do...















No, but they have legitimate concerns for the welfare of animals in our care - whether they be kittens or spiders!







As you have said yourself, expressing an opinion that is different to yours is not hatred.







But abuse is abuse, surely?















Subjecting our exotics to experimentation/abuse publicly on the internet is not going to help is it?















It's not about them (the Ts) but about us! How much mistreatment in human history has been justified by statements such as 'they don't have the same emotions/intelligence' - both animal and human?







We should be better than this!















Monkey see, monkey do...















I've said this before in other posts about Pekto. I


watched him a couple of years ago and I looked up to/respected him for the husbandry I saw and the care he gave. He's changed a lot since then:







- No water bowls in his enclosures



- No labelling of enclosures for species



- Frequently walks away frthom enclosures leaving doors wide open



- His method of re-housing seems deliberately careless and provoking to the Ts - designed to trigger threat postures/bolts/escapes



- No detailed husbandry information







He used to be a passionate hobbyist with a YouTube channel. Now he's a showman with an audience to please.







It shows.







Wayne

Thanks for your opinion, I stand by all ive said in this thread.
Your still riding on them having mamal like brains and thinking process, fear and emotions, its quite different, based on real scientific studies, i like to think they have a bit of something othrr than primitave instinct, but im a spiritual animal lover who likes to think thry all have feelings.

Anyways, the video showed us a ton, and like i said, a bit was too much.

You keep saying things like throwing them in water........your not evenbjust chillin and talking mature about it.

You correct me on baby kittens.

Yyou said he throws them in the water.

Your just kinda that kinda person.

We wont do good here unless both people want to but its clear the route you take.

I just finished watching the video and was pleasantly surprised on how well it was done. This was one of the most interesting tarantula videos I have seen on YouTube. The tarantulas were in a controlled and supervised environment. None of the ones subjected to the water were in any kind of distress or risk of harm. If anyone was paying the least amount of attention, none of the tarantulas were even wet due to their hydrophobic hairs and cuticle. What makes the video so fascinating is seeing how quickly the tarantulas adapt their stride to water. I found the Poecilotheria species, which made attempts to hide in a plastic bottle while submerged, to be the best example of how well their hydrophobic bodies work. That one in particular didn't even seem to care it was under water so long as it had a solid surface to rest on. All it wanted to do was hide just as one would expect from a Poecilotheria species on dry land. Although each one of the tarantulas tested obviously did not enjoy being in water, none of them appeared to have been traumatized by the experience since they all resumed normal behavior when they left the water on their own or by Dark Den.



The only gripe I have is the lack of a literature review before doing the experiment to have an idea of what to expect first, but he did make accurate predictions and actually replicated the same submersion technique in the one published article. A quick search of Google Scholar would have revealed that observing the swimming behavior of tarantulas was done before by Jason Dunlop in 1996 and the observations published in the "Forum of the American Tarantula Society." Comparing the description Dunlop gave of how a tarantula swims, Dark Den would have been better informed of what to expect and what to look for. I imagine if he knew that what he was doing was done before, he would have done a slow motion video of the leg movements and compared them to how Dunlop described it in the article. Spoiler alert, the swimming technique of all tarantulas Dark Den tested matched the way the article described it. That is absolutely fascinating because it would seem all tarantulas have a built in instinct for how to deal with water.



Reading the comments in this thread, I am disappointed that more people can't recognize when a tarantula is in distress and when they are fine. I think there is some kind of expectation of how a tarantula is supposed to react to water based on an expectation on how other animals would react which simply doesn't apply. This Dark Den guy appears to exercise caution in his "swimming tarantulas" video and has the ability to know when enough is enough. He got that male Theraphosa blondi out of the container of water real quick when he saw it didn't float like the others. If anyone puts their own tarantulas at risk of harm by attempting to replicate this experiment, or would assume that a tarantula likes water and should be subjected to it on a regular basis in a new caging setup, then it would be on them for not using their brain and not on Dark Den for setting a bad example.



Literature Referenced:

Dunlop, J. (1996). Swimming in tarantulas. In Forum American Tarantula Society (Vol. 5, pp. 79-81).

thank you sheeeesh, im baffled at the hate and lack of any understanding or even concideration of seeing the good in this.

I bailed on this forum years back because of the attitudes and haters, many people bailed, ive notice a lot more ppl acting more mature and respectful, and open minded lately so i came back. Still see lots of die hard know it alls but i see the staff is on top of it now.

It's close in my opinion. You take an animal and subject it UNNECESSARILY to a stimuli to see its response- we might as well put Ts in battery acid at this rate.















Another one of those "Oh we are doing it for the science" I suspect.







































Spot on- you wrote all the important things I wouldn't take the time to write- well written. He is actually a member of the AB forum FIRST, then he started YouTube, then he left here..see ....

battery acid, see you guys are lost in space, unreal, and he left here the same reason thoussnds of ppl did, because guys like you, respectfully, but its impossible to have convo with that, when you think putting a T in water for a sec is like making them death fight, or be in acid.

Nobody can have real convo with that nonsense.

 

[l4nsky]

So, I have to admit something here. After finally getting the time to watch this video and re-reading the discussion here in this thread, I'm not really sure everyone was even watching the same video.

I'm in full agreement here with @AphonopelmaTX on this. Not only was this video well put together, but none of the animals appeared stressed, his concern for their well being over video quality was evident time and time again (using a cork bark raft at first with a smaller spider, P. met out of focus, not putting the blondi in a deeper tub of water after he reviewed the footage, etc), and I think ultimately it will do much more good than harm for the hobby. Once fear starts to become replaced with wonder and interest, a chain reaction towards respect and understanding tends to start. I've seen it happen more times than not when I actually talk to people about my hobby and some of the species I work with.

Look, I don't really get the whole fan club mentality around some of these content creators and I don't watch any one creator specifically or even consistently for that matter. The one consistent factor among the videos I do watch though are the ones whose goal seems to be to help me further my own education, whether that's on a specific species, husbandry method, explanation of a topic, or demonstration of a concept. This video checked atleast one of those boxes for me.

In this situation, I can't help but wonder if everyone's reaction here would be the same if he had published this experiment in a paper instead of trying to make the information more available to the public in an easily consumed format.

 

[JDS123]

So, I have to admit something here. After finally getting the time to watch this video and re-reading the discussion here in this thread, I'm not really sure everyone was even watching the same video.



I'm in full agreement here with @AphonopelmaTX on this. Not only was this video well put together, but none of the animals appeared stressed, his concern for their well being over video quality was evident time and time again (using a cork bark raft at first with a smaller spider, P. met out of focus, not putting the blondi in a deeper tub of water after he reviewed the footage, etc), and I think ultimately it will do much more good than harm for the hobby. Once fear starts to become replaced with wonder and interest, a chain reaction towards respect and understanding tends to start. I've seen it happen more times than not when I actually talk to people about my hobby and some of the species I work with.



Look, I don't really get the whole fan club mentality around some of these content creators and I don't watch any one creator specifically or even consistently for that matter. The one consistent factor among the videos I do watch though are the ones whose goal seems to be to help me further my own education, whether that's on a specific species, husbandry method, explanation of a topic, or demonstration of a concept. This video checked atleast one of those boxes for me.



In this situation, I can't help but wonder if everyone's reaction here would be the same if he had published this experiment in a paper instead of trying to make the information more available to the public in an easily consumed format.

Awesome post. I agree. I still feel a bit was a little pushy, but mostly great.

I cant believe the backlash from supposedly experienced keepers.

Down the road we may keep certsin Ts in enclosures with water features knowing they are great with it, we evolve, look at years ago we putva sponge in the water bowls, now look, it takes vids like this for us to evolve.

Very suprised at some members

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Down the road we may keep certsin Ts in enclosures with water features knowing they are great with it, we evolve, look at years ago we putva sponge in the water bowls, now look, it takes vids like this for us to evolve.

I really hope no one will start keeping any tarantula in an enclosure with a water feature based on the Dark Den video or any other resource. The two take-aways from the video are 1) tarantulas really hate water and 2) they have an instinct to deal with it if needed. There really needs to be an understanding that there is a difference between what a tarantula can cope with for the purposes of survival and what they prefer. Just because a tarantula has an instinct for dealing with water, doesn't mean anyone should subject them to it on a regular basis.

 

[JDS123]

I really hope no one will start keeping any tarantula in an enclosure with a water feature based on the Dark Den video or any other resource. The two take-aways from the video are 1) tarantulas really hate water and 2) they have an instinct to deal with it if needed. There really needs to be an understanding that there is a difference between what a tarantula can cope with for the purposes of survival and what they prefer. Just because a tarantula has an instinct for dealing with water, doesn't mean anyone should subject them to it on a regular basis.

Sry my post had so many spelling issues geez, my phone and tablet are horrible.

Well, I don't agree, but that's ok, the fact is, we're still learning, and you say Dark Den or any other resources, I think that's quite closed minded, no disrespect.
i mean yeah i don't want ppl basing this on that video, i'm just saying, other resources down the road, anything can happen
I think we have a ways to go, but I have seen videos in the past of Ts in large enclosures with part water and tiny fish, and the Ts when spooked, instead of retreating to the brush, they ran down the cliff sides under water and stayed, then later crawled up and out then ate.

I'm not saying one day they will be in enclosures with water features because they will like to go enjoy a swim.

I just think this is being seen as at shut case for some people snd it's just not.

I agree with you though I'm not saying they love to go swim around like ducks.

I just believe there is far more to be learned here, and we get nowhere with closed minds.

It's amazing how far we have come in just my 35 or so years with reptile, fish, and invert keeping, i don't think we've hit a wall yet.

just my opinion, i respect yours.


edit, i don't think we know yet that all Ts hate water though.

Hate, and feeling the instinct to get out of it are two separate things, it may just be like hey ok i know i'm not dying, but i'm not supposed to just be floating around.....idk, just want ppl to think deeper.

all due respect

 

[arthurliuyz]

I really hope no one will start keeping any tarantula in an enclosure with a water feature based on the Dark Den video or any other resource. The two take-aways from the video are 1) tarantulas really hate water and 2) they have an instinct to deal with it if needed. There really needs to be an understanding that there is a difference between what a tarantula can cope with for the purposes of survival and what they prefer. Just because a tarantula has an instinct for dealing with water, doesn't mean anyone should subject them to it on a regular basis.

IIRC the species he put in the enclosure with a water feature was Hysterocrates gigas, which I believe has been seen catching fish from the water and hiding in the water when disturbed?

 

[viper69]

Thanks for your opinion, I stand by all ive said in this thread.
Your still riding on them having mamal like brains and thinking process, fear and emotions, its quite different, based on real scientific studies, i like to think they have a bit of something othrr than primitave instinct, but im a spiritual animal lover who likes to think thry all have feelings.

Anyways, the video showed us a ton, and like i said, a bit was too much.

You keep saying things like throwing them in water........your not evenbjust chillin and talking mature about it.

You correct me on baby kittens.

Yyou said he throws them in the water.

Your just kinda that kinda person.

We wont do good here unless both people want to but its clear the route you take.


thank you sheeeesh, im baffled at the hate and lack of any understanding or even concideration of seeing the good in this.

I bailed on this forum years back because of the attitudes and haters, many people bailed, ive notice a lot more ppl acting more mature and respectful, and open minded lately so i came back. Still see lots of die hard know it alls but i see the staff is on top of it now.





battery acid, see you guys are lost in space, unreal, and he left here the same reason thoussnds of ppl did, because guys like you, respectfully, but its impossible to have convo with that, when you think putting a T in water for a sec is like making them death fight, or be in acid.

Nobody can have real convo with that nonsense.

Hyperbole is used by me all the time.

justifying such behavior based on their neuroanatomy is a poor excuse for abuse

Im not here to change your mind, you can be lost in your delusions all you want

 

[VukSRB]

Haters gonna hate

 

[JDS123]

Hyperbole is used by me all the time.

justifying such behavior based on their neuroanatomy is a poor excuse for abuse

Im not here to change your mind, you can be lost in your delusions all you want

if it were abuse, which it wasn't.

IIRC the species he put in the enclosure with a water feature was Hysterocrates gigas, which I believe has been seen catching fish from the water and hiding in the water when disturbed?

IIRC?

 

[ThemantismanofPA]

IIRC?

if i recall correctly