Tarantula molt stuck at cephalothorax (thorax, not abdomen)

Yvan Daniel

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
0
Perfectly said.
PICTURES ATTACHED DSCN2097.JPG DSCN2101.JPG DSCN2102.JPG DSCN2105.JPG DSCN2106.JPG DSCN2107.JPG

On the contrary, i do understand why a picture is important and i have explained why I have delayed them. What i do not understand is why everybody needs a picture to answer some basic questions that are not picture related such as how to dissolve the hardened residue I talked about.

An entomologist just told me that these liquids are enzyme driven and once hardened are not known to be water soluble. But with new science emerging everyday there might exist a trick (e.g. HCO3 and H2O2 for skunks smell) As said, I did try to remove it and it did not came off. Someone could have answered this question without a picture. And yes, maybe there is a solution for that but right now i did not find the person that knows about it.

Now, besides the reasons I have explained why i did not take pictures i must add that i do not have a macro lens nor tripod. I tried initially (right before I wrote that post) to do with my smartphone what you have suggested but i do not have stabilization and pictures where either too fuzzy are not accurate enough.

This is the best I can do with my knowledge, i will not risk untangling these fragile legs to provide more insight.

Now, again, i am simply asking you guys to "picture" an upside down tarantula (with new exoskeleton) with on top its complete exuviae, both inverted, both fused at the cephalothorax. Otherwise you will not be able to make sense of these picture i think. Again (sorry about repeating myself) all the legs are really out and there is absolutely no spacing whatsoever between the two cephalothoraxes and nothing has evolved whatsoever since friday morning.

Cool Blood last statements goes in the direction I was thinking about when the new exoskeleton is going to be more hardened.

Hope these pictures will help.

Thank you very much for your inputs.
 
Last edited:

Ghost56

Arachnobaron
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
443
PICTURES ATTACHED View attachment 234588 View attachment 234589 View attachment 234590 View attachment 234591 View attachment 234592 View attachment 234593

On the contrary, i do understand why a picture is important and i have explained why I have delayed them. What i do not understand is why everybody needs a picture to answer some basic questions that are not picture related such as how to dissolve the hardened residue I talked about.

An entomologist just told me that these liquids are enzyme driven and once hardened are not known to be water soluble. But with new science emerging everyday there might exist a trick (e.g. HCO3 and H2O2 for skunks smell) As said, I did try to remove it and it did not came off. Someone could have answered this question without a picture. And yes, maybe there is a solution for that but right now i did not find the person that knows about it.

Now, besides the reasons I have explained why i did not take pictures i must add that i do not have a macro lens nor tripod. I tried initially (right before I wrote that post) to do with my smartphone what you have suggested but i do not have stabilization and pictures where either too fuzzy are not accurate enough.

This is the best I can do with my knowledge, i will not risk untangling these fragile legs to provide more insight.

Now, again, i am simply asking you guys to "picture" an upside down tarantula (with new exoskeleton) with on top its complete exuviae, both inverted, both fused at the cephalothorax. Otherwise you will not be able to make sense of these picture i think. Again (sorry about repeating myself) all the legs are really out and there is absolutely no spacing whatsoever between the two cephalothoraxes and nothing has evolved whatsoever since friday morning.

Cool Blood last statements goes in the direction I was thinking about when the new exoskeleton is going to be more hardened.

Hope these pictures will help.

Thank you very much for your inputs.
Get a close up picture of the old exo's pedipalps. I see emboli in pic 4, but I'm not sure if it's the old pedipalps or new. If it was already a MM, and tried to molt again, that's the real issue.

As for how to dissolve the fluid, we told you that. Water with a tiny drop of dish soap instantly gets absorbed into an old exo. Whether that would dissolve the fluid or not, I'm not completely sure. But I do know that it softens up old molts so I don't see how it couldn't possibly help.
 

cold blood

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
11,934
Check this video

Great except the liquid bandaid on the leg...that's a terrible idea...liquid bamdaid is great for body injuries, but for legs, the t has a valve at the base of each leg that it can close off...preventing loss of hemolymph.

Otherwise a great example of how to help a t from a molt IMO. He mentioned glycerine as a source to soften the exo.
 

smitje

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
75
as ghost is saying, for me it worked with just water. Adding a tiny bit of soap will probably help better. By now I would be worried and would start cutting away the parts of the old skeleton. Maybe you can free it enough to let it finish the job herself......... just be sure of what you cut.....
 

Yvan Daniel

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
0
Get a close up picture of the old exo's pedipalps. I see emboli in pic 4, but I'm not sure if it's the old pedipalps or new. If it was already a MM, and tried to molt again, that's the real issue.

As for how to dissolve the fluid, we told you that. Water with a tiny drop of dish soap instantly gets absorbed into an old exo. Whether that would dissolve the fluid or not, I'm not completely sure. But I do know that it softens up old molts so I don't see how it couldn't possibly help.
It is true according to numerous testimonies that water or water+soap will soften the old exo except the joints. However the entomologist told me that once the enzyme cycle is complete research suggest that it also contribute to the hardening of the new exocuticule. And this enzyme-liquid when solidified (exposed to air?) is not known to be water soluble.

What you saw on the picture (if I got the right one) were the old pedipalps. And yes, i did notice some kind of redness that looked like fresh blood around the new fangs the same kind we see on the old exo (picture). At this stage, I dont even know if spider have blood but it was red for sure. I was a high resolution image, I cropped it for your convenience. But do not want to bother the pet for now. I aware time is my worst enemy. But everything is a matter of compromises. Right now I favor hardening of the new exo over "trying to do something" since "all the parts " seems to be out. They If the T is in full shape I will cut away stuff...

I play safe anyway; I do moist the intersection of the two thorax just in case it might help the Tarantula.
 

Attachments

smitje

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
75
Great except the liquid bandaid on the leg...that's a terrible idea...liquid bamdaid is great for body injuries, but for legs, the t has a valve at the base of each leg that it can close off...preventing loss of hemolymph.

Otherwise a great example of how to help a t from a molt IMO. He mentioned glycerine as a source to soften the exo.
Wouldnt the liquid bandaid have a sceptic effect that might prevent infection? If pieces come off at all ofcourse......
 

smitje

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
75
It is true according to numerous testimonies that water or water+soap will soften the old exo except the joints. However the entomologist told me that once the enzyme cycle is complete research suggest that it also contribute to the hardening of the new exocuticule that when solidified (exposed to air?) it will not be water soluble
So what did he suggest to use? Alcohol?
 

Venom1080

Arachnoemperor
Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Messages
4,583
how long did you leave it to molt?
the only thing id try is a damp q tip around the edges of the stuck parts.
 

Ghost56

Arachnobaron
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
443
It is true according to numerous testimonies that water or water+soap will soften the old exo except the joints. However the entomologist told me that once the enzyme cycle is complete research suggest that it also contribute to the hardening of the new exocuticule that when solidified (exposed to air?) it will not be water soluble.

What you saw on the picture (if I got the right one) were the old pedipalps. And yes, i did notice some kind of redness around the new fangs. I was a high resolution image, I cropped it for your convenience. But do not want to bother the pet for now. I aware time is my worst enemy. But everything is a matter of compromises. Right now I favor hardening of the new exo over "trying to do something" since "all the parts " seems to be out. They If the T is in full shape I will cut away stuff...

I play safe anyway; I do moist the intersection of the two thorax just in case it might help the Tarantula.
Inkedold pedipalps DSCN2105_LI.jpg
The red around the fangs is perfectly normal, that's it's mouth. The part I circled is what I'm talking about, if that's on the old pedipalp, that's the issue. That would mean it was a mature male that attempted to molt again, which almost always results in a failed molt/death.

And as far as what you were told about the enzymes, that's simply talking about the OUTSIDE layer of the new exo. You have access to the INSIDE layer of the old exo, which I'm assuming is what allows the water to be absorbed when soaking molts for sexing, since the outside does repel water.
 
Last edited:

cold blood

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
11,934
Wouldnt the liquid bandaid have a sceptic effect that might prevent infection? If pieces come off at all ofcourse......
Not sure it would...but is that necessary? Ive had lots of lost limbs over the years, infection isn't something I have ever seen related to a lost limb. Infection in ts at all is really rare and usually the result of being kept in horrid conditions.

I just don't like the addition of a sticky substance in a place its not needed. Although the tiny amount he used would probably not have much adverse effect, its just not needed. Its like applying a bandaid to a fingernail you cut down too close or a shaving nick....go ahead, it won't hurt, but its pretty pointless.
 

cold blood

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
11,934
View attachment 234597
The red around the fangs is perfectly normal, that's it's mouth. The part I circled is what I'm talking about, if that's on the old pedipalp, that's the issue. That would mean it was a mature male that attempted to molt again, which almost always results in a failed molt/death.

And as far as what you were told about the enzymes, that's simply talking about the OUTSIDE of the new exo. You have access to the inside of the old exo, which I'm assuming is what allows the water to be absorbed when soaking molts for sexing, since the outside does repel water.
That's what I thought as well, but I can't zoom on the image on my computer.

Op, its pretty uncommon for a MM to molt, but this is one of those rare species that does from time to time. Even rarer are the ones that survive such a molt, it almost always ends just like this...horribly stuck.

I'm still pulling for you though.
 

Ghost56

Arachnobaron
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
443
That's what I thought as well, but I can't zoom on the image on my computer.

Op, its pretty uncommon for a MM to molt, but this is one of those rare species that does from time to time. Even rarer are the ones that survive such a molt, it almost always ends just like this...horribly stuck.

I'm still pulling for you though.
I'd about bet, if it was a MM, that the pedipalps are what's stuck. And OP is just getting confused with that jumbled mess of legs. Only thing that's throwing me off, is I can't spot a tibial hook in the same pic on the one leg that's able to be seen. But then again, that might just be a different leg that looks like the one I need to see. 16 legs is confusing :(.
 

cold blood

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
11,934
Hard to say for sure, but I did think I saw hooks when I was able to zoom.


Judging from the pic that you circled the palp in, it looks like the sticking point is almost at the underside of the pedicel, or right at the base of the cephalothorax.
 

Yvan Daniel

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
0
Hard to say for sure, but I did think I saw hooks when I was able to zoom.


Judging from the pic that you circled the palp in, it looks like the sticking point is almost at the underside of the pedicel, or right at the base of the cephalothorax.
I will take a closer look next time..
 

Yvan Daniel

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
0
I'd about bet, if it was a MM, that the pedipalps are what's stuck. And OP is just getting confused with that jumbled mess of legs. Only thing that's throwing me off, is I can't spot a tibial hook in the same pic on the one leg that's able to be seen. But then again, that might just be a different leg that looks like the one I need to see. 16 legs is confusing :(.
I could positively ID the 2 new pedipalps and the two old ones.
 

Yvan Daniel

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
0
View attachment 234597
The red around the fangs is perfectly normal, that's it's mouth. The part I circled is what I'm talking about, if that's on the old pedipalp, that's the issue. That would mean it was a mature male that attempted to molt again, which almost always results in a failed molt/death.

And as far as what you were told about the enzymes, that's simply talking about the OUTSIDE layer of the new exo. You have access to the INSIDE layer of the old exo, which I'm assuming is what allows the water to be absorbed when soaking molts for sexing, since the outside does repel water.
I will try to get a closer look and picture next of the pedipalps next time. However I positively ID the new and old ones. So, they are out too.
 

Yvan Daniel

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
0
Hard to say for sure, but I did think I saw hooks when I was able to zoom.


Judging from the pic that you circled the palp in, it looks like the sticking point is almost at the underside of the pedicel, or right at the base of the cephalothorax.
I positively ID the new white fangs..
 

Yvan Daniel

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
0
how long did you leave it to molt?
the only thing id try is a damp q tip around the edges of the stuck parts.
Well it has been 4 days on its back not moving then it started to molt and 8 hours later (friday morning) the parts were fused as observed. Since friday morning nothing has improved with respect to the "fusing". However it is clear that the new exoskeleton & legs are getting stronger everyday. However the movements of the tarantula are decreasing. Hardly any movements registered by the IF camera today. The camera is there to study the movements only. Video blurry because cam outside habitat and IF lights reflecting agains the glass but sufficient to observe. Maybe the progressive lack of mvt indicates dying T.
 
Top