Tarantula Incest?

RyTheTGuy

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I am ordering 2 Chaco Golden Knees, that will arrive on Friday. They are from the same dealer and about the same size and age. I know breeding them is WAY WAY down the road. The chances of getting a male and a female are pretty slim, but my question is. If the Ts are from the same eggsac does incest matter in Tarantulas?
 

Spiderman24

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People say it does, but I don't think so. Honestly think of it like this ok I buy a sling from let's say robc it.grows up molts into female. Well rob being the good seller he is had tons of other people buy from the sane sac as well. They all grow up and now its time for me to get a male. Well it just so happens that guess what the guy I'm getting my male from baught from the same sac. Neither of us know this happenedthough.... I breed I get a sac boom. No problems. Now what are the chances of that scenario actually happening. I think quite high honestly. And chances of us knowing it happened are rare. I think it could be possible I frown upon having a sac having them grow up together basically and breeding. But what's the harm in just not knowing. I mean it could happen in there natural habitat as well.
 

RyTheTGuy

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I mean i dont think i will ever try to breed them just because im pretty sure they came from the same eggsac and the chances of getting 1 of each sex is only a 33.3% chance. which actually are ok odds. Just interested in knowing if it matters
 

Anansis

Arachnobaron
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The male will mature sooner than his female sibling and mating will probably not occur before the male expires. I believe that this is natures way of preventing inbreeding and ensuring genetic diversity.

Ollie
 

RyTheTGuy

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The male will mature sooner than his female sibling and mating will probably not occur before the male expires. I believe that this is natures way of preventing inbreeding and ensuring genetic diversity.

Ollie
I never thought of that, but makes perfect sense.

Thanks Ryan
 

Bosing

Arachnoangel
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I have a friend who actually bred N. chromatus siblings. Once the genders were confirmed at juvenile stage, the female was powerfed and the male was put on a diet to prolong molting interval.
 

Spiderman24

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I have a friend who actually bred N. chromatus siblings. Once the genders were confirmed at juvenile stage, the female was powerfed and the male was put on a diet to prolong molting interval.
Diet?.... so basically he stopped feeding a t so he could mate siblings.... cause its not like you can give him a salad...... he cut back the poor guys food.... but to the guy stating that the male will mature before the female. I do somewhat agree with you except I had a female obt mature two molts before the male. They were fed on the same days as one another. From the same sac. And molted about a week apart. But your theory in the matter makes very good sense
 

RyTheTGuy

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Cutting back a diet could just mean instead of feeding him weekly to ever other week and feeding the female multiple times a week if she will eat. Doesn't mean that he starved it.
 

Spiderman24

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I didn't mean starving him but taking him off his regular schedule just to mate him with a sibling is wrong.
 

advan

oOOo
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I didn't mean starving him but taking him off his regular schedule just to mate him with a sibling is wrong.
This is done all the time and not with just sack mates. As long as he is healthy and has access to water, I see no problem with this. I wouldn't consider it "wrong." If your like me and feed more than is needed, cutting back on a males feeding would bring him to a better and healthier schedule. IMO.
 

Spiderman24

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Yeah I guess you're right mate. I feed mine more then needed but if they are eating what's offered its not really more then needed because they must be hungry you know?
 

RyTheTGuy

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Yeah I guess you're right mate. I feed mine more then needed but if they are eating what's offered its not really more then needed because they must be hungry you know?
Yeah, i mean your T will stop eating if its full. Its ok to power feed them but once mature IMO you should put them on a regular feeding schedule.
 

Poxicator

Arachnobaron
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It seems to me some of these opinions are no more than your personal thoughts. You should look into some of these issues more IMO. Good, accurate information is more often found in studies rather than forums.

Overfeeding is one of the main concerns the hobby faces, this was the view of some of the top arachnologists fairly recently.
Restricting the gene pool should be something we avoid, it makes far more sense to try to find partners that are not of the same generation.
Whilst there's very little concrete proof of these issues there's enough experienced observations out there to suggest they should be avoided as best we can.
 

Introvertebrate

Arachnodemon
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..............Restricting the gene pool should be something we avoid, it makes far more sense to try to find partners that are not of the same generation...............
I see your point, but all captive born Ts are part of a restricted gene pool. Let's say I'm in New York with my female B. smithi, and I order a male from California. They might not be sack mates, but there's a distinct possibility that they had the same captive raised great-great grandmother.
 

Poxicator

Arachnobaron
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Its recommended to skip a generation. So, whilst breeding mum with her offspring should be avoided, breeding with the next generation is considered a significant enough jump.

Its true that what we have is a restricted gene pool which is why it can be a good idea to introduce new blood from WC stock. I actually find it a negative arguement to say, oh this is what we have so lets not worry about it. We have the ability to be a bit more responsible than that, and perhaps one day people will thank us for that. :)
 

Embers To Ashes

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There is evidence that inbreeding does not have much effect on Ts. I have seen posts where somebody was raising a group of comunal Ts. It started out as mom and dad, but over four generations where observed over a period of time with no side effects. So when dad died the babies grew up and mated with the mom, then with their siblings...
 

Rue

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I don't like the use of the term 'incest' - that implies human knowledge of taboo sexual affiliation...

Otherwise, there's straight in-breeding and also line-breeding. If you're selecting for specific traits, both are acceptable practices in animal husbandry. What you don't want to do is randomly mate animals together with poor genes...or for no discernable reason...

Just because you happen to have a male and female isn't a good enough reason to breed them.
 

Hobo

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I believe it should be avoided as much as possible. Maybe practice a little bit of culling when you hatch a sac.

I think the reason we don't see many detrimental effects of inbreeding in tarantulas is simply because we really haven't been breeding them all that long.

I'm sure you've all read about slings with two abdomens, or backwards legs, or entire sacs just dying for no apparent reason. Even spiders that screw up molts for apparently no reason. These could be the results of inbreeding creeping up on us.

Anyway, here are some good threads to read:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=192611

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=100533

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=109401
 

Embers To Ashes

Arachnoknight
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Hobo, would you please post a link so I can read about these slings with two abdomins? I ran a search and couldn't find it. I am not doughting you at all, I am just curious.
 

Spiderman24

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I agree with hobo. And to the person below him just Google it I've seen pictures of two abdominal having tarantulas that even.grew up completely
 
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