T boredom and stimulation.

CarrotsBiteBack

Arachnopeon
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Messages
21
Hello everyone,

Sorry if this has been posted else where before but I could not see anything at a quick glance about it.

Also, before I start my topic I am not here to be made to feel stupid or a useless keeper or to make anyone else feel like that I am simply enquiring into something I have an interest in.

So onto the topic. I have seen a photo of someone who added a bright red and yellow plastic spider into their B. emilia's enclosure and was enquiring on what others thought of the T. sitting over it for hours. The plastic spider appeared to be a similar size to the actual tarantula. Obviously there were some genuine suggestions amoung the vast amount of expected comments for such an area of the web - excuse the pun. So I was wondering on what other keepers thoughts are to adding such things to T. enclosures, from a more reliable source. I personally am not a fan of the idea of plastic spider ornaments being placed in enclousers, that is not to say that it is wrong to do such a thing.

Leading off from that there were a few comments about adding ping pong balls into enclosures to stimulate T's. People seemed to be mainly adding them into A. seemani enclosures as they bulldoze anyway. My two certainly love to renovate their own renovations and flip the water bowls on a regular basis. Even my P. victorii loves throwing dirt around as high as possible and sit over it like they own it.

What are your thoughts and opinions on adding various none natural (as in plants and other general nature decoration) stimulus into enclousers? Do T's get bored and need the stimulation? I appreciate that there is not enough research being conducted on tarantulas and tarantula behaviour so we rely, as with now, on other keepers experiences.

Thanks everyone and have an awesome day!
 

AphonopelmaTX

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
1,816
Without any context, it is impossible to draw any conclusions as to why someone's tarantula would sit on top of an artifact inside of its cage. However, tarantulas adapt to their conditions the best they can and will find any location in the cage that suits their needs the best. Sometimes a tarantula will stand on top of a wooden hide if the soil substrate isn't to their liking, an arboreal tarantula will wedge itself at the bottom of a cage between a wall and another object if there is nowhere to hide at the top of the cage, etc.

As ambush predators, tarantulas are also very tidy creatures and don't appreciate a lot of clutter around them. Their long legs act as extensions of their nervous system and they need the space to stretch them out to locate their prey and the space to grab and pull their prey when needed. This explains the perception that tarantulas play with ping pong balls, or any other light weight object in their cage such as water dishes or plants. They are not playing with it to satisfy a curiosity or some need for enrichment, but rather they are trying their hardest to get rid of an object in their way. With four walls and a roof over their head, it becomes a futile task. Except for mature males, tarantulas are also very sedentary creatures and don't have a metabolism that supports a lot of aerobic activity and thus don't get bored and need to be provided with opportunities for physical or mental stimulation. This doesn't mean sexually mature males need some kind of stimulation as they have only one thing on their mind and it isn't something you, as a human, can provide for them!

And for one last point regarding this so-called bulldozing behavior seen in tarantulas that dig. When you see a tarantula constantly digging and moving soil around its cage, it is trying its hardest to build a suitable place to hide itself away but is unable. Many tarantulas kept in captivity are fossorial in nature and dig their own burrowers in the soil sometimes under rocks or some other object in the ground. In captivity, when the space and type of soil provided is not conducive to such activity, you start seeing that 'bulldozing' behavior. It is a behavior that some might consider cute or fun to watch, but when I see it in my own tarantulas, I see it as a symptom that something is wrong and I need to reconsider its housing.

As previously mentioned, tarantulas are sedentary creatures and should be as fun to watch as it would be watching paint dry. Keeping tarantulas in captivity requires an appreciation for what they are and not what they do. Since there is an abundance of food and water along with a climate controlled environment in captivity, a tarantula can afford to be more active than it would be in the wild. This could lead a novice keeper to think tarantulas can be, or should be, active and need stimulation, when the reality is that high levels of activity is a symptom of a housing problem.
 
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Frogdaddy

Arachnoprince
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
1,067
The actions you describe are what zookeepers refer to as enrichment.
This is usually reserved for vertebrates with a much larger mental capacity than a tarantula has.
Anyone who describes their tarantula as "playing" "having fun" with a foreign object in their enclosure is just anthropomorphising. They simply don't have the brain power to be capable of "play".
As Aphonoplema said above the are simply dealing with an object the only way they know how.
Personally I don't believe that putting a ball or a toy in a tarantula enclosure benefits them in any way.
.
 

CarrotsBiteBack

Arachnopeon
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Messages
21
Thanks for responding @AphonopelmaTX it is much appreciated.

Regarding context there was not really much to go off via text. The photo included was a plastic spider with the B. emilia over the top in what appeared to be a high stance, almost like a feeding stance. Other then that there is not a lot else to go on. People were mainly either loving the tarantula itself or geeking over their given name. Completely understand the adaptations every spices will do that. However, I did not know an arboreal will wedge itself down low like that, I have never experienced that issue with any of my arboreal species. Now I regret not picking up a P. vattati when I had the opportunity.

I know about the need of space etc that's why I do not clutter up their enclosures as I have seen others do. Going from what you are saying, which was pretty much my thoughts already, it is not worth putting in a ping pong ball or other such 'toys'. I always leave the water dish wherever it is moved too, obviously turning it over if needed as I do not like the idea of gluing it in place to the side of the enclouser or hides for the reasons you have previously said.

One hundred percent get the mature male comment, been there with a mature male previously. I am waiting for my partners D. diamantinensis to mature fully as we think that is a male before sending him off to complete his life cycle.

Ah now bulldozing, when I am referring to my two A. seemani doing that it is definitely not constant! However, for others I can not comment on their regulatory of bulldozing behaviours. When I say "regularly" what I actually mean may be once or twice a month which for the living stones is perhaps considered constant? Haha, I kid. Sometimes they "happy dance" after being feed which is the most amount of movement I actually get from them. With my P. victorii it is a older sling and is still making up its dirt curtian as part of settling in process from being rehoused from the sling pot it was in when brought to the enclosure I placed them in. I have never seen an arboreal tarantula make a dirt curtain so high before. It has two definite places down low with enough substrate to burrow if preferred and a cork tube for higher hiding. It however has decided that between all the cork wood as high as possible is where it wants to be not inside anything I had intended.

So, bringing back to the point with house renovation and the A. seemani duo I was semi lead to believe that this is something that this spieces does. As it is not constant behavior would you honestly consider, if they were yours, rehousing to address any potential concerns? They are both adult females actual age is unknown, had one nearly a year and the other for about seven months and neither have given me any issues or concerns - well until now.

The end of this sentence made me chuckle "As previously mentioned, tarantulas are sedentary creatures and should be as fun to watch as it would be watching paint dry." We definitely do not keep them for the entertainment value, as say that a cat or dog. "Keeping tarantulas in captivity requires an appreciation for what they are and not what they do." Yes!!! Could not say that better myself.

Again, thanks for your input it is highly valued.

Thanks for responding @Frogdaddy you literally beat me on respindong to Aphonopelma!

Yes I was definitely referring to enrichment in my orginal comment.

Thank you "anthromorphising" was the exact word I wanted to use originally but my brain power could not figure out how to spell it correctly and I can not open another page on my phone to check the spelling without loosing this page. Well I have the lacking capacity to work it out more like!

You also align with my view on placement of "toys" in enclosures then. The orginal place I saw the thread a lot of people were talking about doing it, but as previously mentioned I would rather come to a more reliable sources of information then that site.

One hundred percent agree with you both, thank you for your input.
 

CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 22, 2022
Messages
226
Do keep in mind, some arthropods (solitary ones included) are unexpectedly intelligent, including a few spiders. So while a T isn't going to be anywhere near as smart as, say, a parrot or even a rodent, I can actually see a T having some level of cognition; probably not much if anything in terms of emotions, since a solitary animal doesn't have much use for emotion or conveying emotion to others, but more in terms of memory or pattern recognition (something that would be useful for an ambush predator).

The issue with animal cognition in general is that different animals will evolve their cognitive capabilities in different directions based on their lifestyle (social animals need better social intelligence, predators need the ability to learn and remember prey behavioral patterns, something that travels long distances for resources has to remember where those resources are located, etc); too often, a lack of one cognitive capability in a given animal is argued to be a sign that it has no cognitive capability at all. It makes sense a T wouldn't get bored, since whatever cognitive capabilities a T has would be adapted for a lifestyle where most of its life is spent doing nothing (so being unable to get bored would be an evolutionary advantage), but that doesn't mean it also makes sense that a T would be unable to remember which of its burrow/web funnel entrances is more productive for prey, or which provides the safest way into the deepest part of its shelter should a bigger predator show up while it's out (since those are abilities that would be genuinely useful for a T to have in the wild).

Non-mammalian cognition was historically underestimated for various reasons that are no longer seen as valid, and this is especially true for arthropods. It was once assumed that placental mammals and a few birds were the only animals capable of ANY significant degree of cognition (as in, the only organisms that weren't running completely on instinct) until cognitive capabilities of some sort turned up across birds as a whole, as well as in various non-avian reptiles, sharks, some bony fishes, cephalopods, etc; so why not arthropods?
 
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coolnweird

Arachnobaron
Joined
Oct 20, 2019
Messages
512
I feel very strongly about providing enrichment for all animals kept in captivity! The animals need to be able to express natural behaviors, first and foremost, i.e. providing the proper substrate moisture, depth, and hide opportunities. But more than that, I try to include lots of different textures in the enclosure. I figure that spiders are mostly touch-based, so I offer variety in the decor. While I have no evidence they enjoy or even notice this, that's how I offer enrichment to my animals! I also think a varied diet can be considered enrichment for tarantulas
 
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