T.blondi ( is it truly the largest tarantula?)

[Chris LXXIX]

jon3800s care is very poor, a joke is a nice way of putting it.

He's of best if you need an advice about a lawnmover :-s

 

[Venom1080]

He's of best if you need an advice about a lawnmover :-s

or fire alarms

 

[Chris LXXIX]

or fire alarms

u_u

 

[Nightstalker47]

You could be right. Emphasis on the could, though. There is no research done on the long term effects on feeding. It's generally accepted in the hobby that the amount of food only affects growth rate, not max

im going to assume some ones fairly new if they think tarantulas have a limited number of molts..
and what have you experienced first hand exactly? that spiders grow faster when fed more? wonder when i heard that before..
jon3800s care is very poor, a joke is a nice way of putting it.

Keep on making assumptions, but I'm only here to learn more about Ts with friendly hobbyists. You seem eager to put others down, perhaps you should change your ways. I find it interesting how people get an ego kick out of this sort of thing, pat yourself on the back while your at it.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

However Jon3800 always used his time on YT for help, in a honest way, beginners and other people asking him a question or an advice. I watched his videos, he always try his best for reply. I can disagree with something, and that's normal, but he's a man moved by a genuine passion :-s

 

[Nightstalker47]

Keep on making assumptions, but I'm only here to learn more about Ts with friendly hobbyists. You seem eager to put others down, perhaps you should change your ways. I find it interesting how people get an ego kick out of this sort of thing, pat yourself on the back while your at it.

Don't know why EulersK was quoted my mistake there this is for venom

 

[Venom1080]

Keep on making assumptions, but I'm only here to learn more about Ts with friendly hobbyists. You seem eager to put others down, perhaps you should change your ways. I find it interesting how people get an ego kick out of this sort of thing, pat yourself on the back while your at it.

youre not going to learn anything when you disregard everything people tell you. youre mistaking eager to insult with eager to help, im almost always one of the first people to respond to a new thread.

 

[Nightstalker47]

youre not going to learn anything when you disregard everything people tell you. youre mistaking eager to help with eager to point out something wrong, im almost always one of the first people to respond to a new thread.

I disagreed with you on one thing, and I know for a fact when my males mature the well fed one will be bigger. Justifying my point, I'm happy to learn but I won't take your disrespectful comments as help

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I think a lot of these "monsters" can be explained by differences in measuring techniques -- combined with exaggeration. (Notice that you rarely see pictures of these unusually large Ts with a ruler.)

For example, DLS -- it sounds self-explanatory, but are you measuring at a more natural (for the tarantula) posture or with legs stretched to the limit? It's hard to get a live tarantula to stretch as much as you want, so I think a lot of people measure at a more natural posture and "estimate" what it would be if stretched to the limit. It's when they're estimating that exaggeration (intentional or not) comes into play.

I agree with this 100%. Many years ago I bought what I thought was a Theraphosa stirmi with an 11 inch legspan from the classifieds here. The picture included the spider resting on a 12 inch tile for size verification. That was enough to convince me it really had an 11 inch legspan and to drop a small fortune on it. When this T. stirmi molted in my care, I took the fresh exuvia which was fully intact and measured it. The exuvia measured 8 inches from tip of tarsus of leg 1 to tip of tarsus of leg 4. There was no way I could manipulate it or measure it to be 11 inches. This particular T. stirmi is still alive in my care and has molted a few times since and each time the fresh exuvia measured 8 inches. Even though the legspan wasn't 11 inches, it is still a massive spider in body weight and carapace width. It is my opinion that the most accurate way to get an idea of a size of a tarantula is to measure the carapace width and length living or dead.

Out of all of the giant adult tarantulas I have bought over the years, I would say a 7 inch legspan is the average no matter what someone tells you or advertises as. It is also something that someone who claims to have a tarantula with a 9 or more inch legspan never has a picture to clearly back it up. That being said, if anyone wants to see a picture of the T. stirmi exuvia with an 8 inch legspan, just let me know.

Besides, fretting over legspan length is quite silly I think. Even if one has a Theraphosa species with a 12 inch legspan, you're never going to see it fully stretched out. Housed correctly, Theraphosa species will stay hidden in a stance with its legs drawn up to its body. That goes for most of the giant species of tarantula, excluding maybe the arboreal ones. At least the ones I have kept myself.

 

[Nightstalker47]

I agree with this 100%. Many years ago I bought what I thought was a Theraphosa stirmi with an 11 inch legspan from the classifieds here. The picture included the spider resting on a 12 inch tile for size verification. That was enough to convince me it really had an 11 inch legspan and to drop a small fortune on it. When this T. stirmi molted in my care, I took the fresh exuvia which was fully intact and measured it. The exuvia measured 8 inches from tip of tarsus of leg 1 to tip of tarsus of leg 4. There was no way I could manipulate it or measure it to be 11 inches. This particular T. stirmi is still alive in my care and has molted a few times since and each time the fresh exuvia measured 8 inches. Even though the legspan wasn't 11 inches, it is still a massive spider in body weight and carapace width. It is my opinion that the most accurate way to get an idea of a size of a tarantula is to measure the carapace width and length living or dead.

Out of all of the giant adult tarantulas I have bought over the years, I would say a 7 inch legspan is the average no matter what someone tells you or advertises as. It is also something that someone who claims to have a tarantula with a 9 or more inch legspan never has a picture to clearly back it up. That being said, if anyone wants to see a picture of the T. stirmi exuvia with an 8 inch legspan, just let me know.

Besides, fretting over legspan length is quite silly I think. Even if one has a Theraphosa species with a 12 inch legspan, you're never going to see it fully stretched out. Housed correctly, Theraphosa species will stay hidden in a stance with its legs drawn up to its body. That goes for most of the giant species of tarantula, excluding maybe the arboreal ones. At least the ones I have kept myself.

That's interesting I haven't ever been one to seen out large Ts I like to raise them from slings, you get to watch over them longer and see them grow into monsters. Very satisfying knowing you grew a big T from sling to maturity!

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

That's interesting I haven't ever been one to seen out large Ts I like to raise them from slings, you get to watch over them longer and see them grow into monsters. Very satisfying knowing you grew a big T from sling to maturity!

I never said I grew a big tarantula from spiderling to maturity. The T. stirmi I wrote about was bought as 11 inches and was actually 8 inches in legspan. The other giant spiders I mentioned to have bought over the years were bought as adults.

On that topic though, the person I bought the giant T. stirmi from did raise it from a spiderling and told me how to grow them to massive sizes. Basically, lots of dubia roaches, lots of water, and high temperatures. According to this guy, he was able to grow it from a baby to a giant adult in about 3 years. Using this method, I don't believe it can grow a tarantula to a long legspan, but from this one T. stirmi lots of food will increase a tarantula's body mass. Being purely speculative, I think a tarantula's legspan is determined more from genetics than from nutrition. High heat (85-90 degrees F) will make them grow faster, but it's what you feed it and how much that really dictates their final adult weight.

 

[cold blood]

T

The slings in question were P. ornata and L. Parahybana

Neither of these species get to 10". Claims of such are erroneous or just mistaken measurements like TX mentioned. (or are just freaks of nature)

And how can you be so sure that feeding doesn't influence the max size.

Now according to what I have read from arachnologist Sam Marshall, increased food at early ages, can and often does equate to a larger adult....I am not sure if he was taking about males as well, as sometimes they do just mature small....but I do think its the case with females.

Here's the quote:

"...you cannot over-feed a growing spider. In fact, the more you feed a young tarantula, the faster and larger it will grow."

Again, I believe this to be less the case with males. IME I tend to feed males a lot and get them to maturity as fast as possible for breeding, and over the years, I have raised a few MM's that were much larger than average, but at the same time, I have raised about the same number that were much smaller than average (sometimes even siblings fed the same)...the vast majority have been average sized for their species.

I also think a T has a limited amount of molts in its life cycle and the more it grows from each molt the bigger the mature T.

This is just not the case though...a female will continue to molt throughout their lives, eventually the time between molts will increase dramatically and the growth may be virtually non-existent...but they don't have a certain or limited number of molts.

For example, DLS -- it sounds self-explanatory, but are you measuring at a more natural (for the tarantula) posture or with legs stretched to the limit? It's hard to get a live tarantula to stretch as much as you want, so I think a lot of people measure at a more natural posture and "estimate" what it would be if stretched to the limit. It's when they're estimating that exaggeration (intentional or not) comes into play.

Ideally the legs should be stretched out to get the most accurate measurement...but like TX said, its not always ideal or possible to get a t to sit in these positions....arboreals that stretch out on the sides of the enclosure are far and away the easiest to see this from and get accurate measurements from.

 

[edesign]

^^^^op don't feed the troll. 98% of the board are friendly, helpful and open to the suggestion that they don't know everything. There is an ignore feature for just such members

What troll? The one giving correct information? Lol, your definition of troll is wrong. Trolling has zilch to do with attitude. It has everything to do with posting false info and/or trying to incite negative reactions. Venom1080 is faaaaaaaar from a troll. Do you consider cold blood a troll too (EDIT: I swear I did not realize he posted while I was typing this)? He can be far more abrasive but is one of the better members of the forum. Why are people so sensitive to being told they're wrong? It's almost kinda funny. No ego kick involved with Venom's posts. No sugar coating either. Not everything has to taste/read like candy. He's not being a jerk. He's making an observation (accurately) about the comments and it seems someone was offended at being called out on it.

Regardless, great advice telling someone to ignore an intelligent and knowledgeable member /S I'm pretty sure he doesn't have all those upvotes and stuff for being a jerk (or troll if we're misusing terms).

Anyway, back to the topic...

On that topic though, the person I bought the giant T. stirmi from did raise it from a spiderling and told me how to grow them to massive sizes. Basically, lots of dubia roaches, lots of water, and high temperatures. According to this guy, he was able to grow it from a baby to a giant adult in about 3 years. Using this method, I don't believe it can grow a tarantula to a long legspan, but from this one T. stirmi lots of food will increase a tarantula's body mass. Being purely speculative, I think a tarantula's legspan is determined more from genetics than from nutrition. High heat (85-90 degrees F) will make them grow faster, but it's what you feed it and how much that really dictates their final adult weight.

IOW...power feeding in to and through adulthood and making the home environment conducive to high metabolism to facilitate shorter periods between molts. No secret there for fast growth to a large size I don't, however, see 10" to 12" in one molt being remotely feasible.

Regarding leg span I agree it would seem to be somewhat based on genetics. I've read numerous times over the last twelve years on this forum and elsewhere about breeders and long-term keepers having multiple spiders of the same species and sex that they've owned from slings/small juvies but observing noticeable differences in adult size. Since they were kept with the same keeper chances are favorable that they were all fed the same diet and at the same frequency.

I've got multiple specimens of various species such as E. olivacea (3), P. ecclesiasticus (4), X. immanis (3), A. versicolor (2), I. hirsutum (2), P. metallica (2), G. pulchra (2), N. incei "gold" (2, bought at different times from different people, but only about a year apart), and A. diversipes (3). All purchased as slings from the same person at the same time, except the N. incei, so I'm fairly certain they're siblings but even if they're not that's ok. Important part is they were purchased at the same time at the same size and should be equally impacted by diet, temps, humidity, etc. With pairs it's less likely to have two females but in the event I do I plan on noting any size differences as they reach adulthood. Males I won't bother with as I'll likely try to sell them.

I'd like to think I'll remember to post my observations as info such as that is hard to come by. I'm only sporadically on the forums these days. Right now the largest are the versis and hirsutums at ~2.5" so still got a bit of time to go. It's hot and humid in my T room in the summer (no AC, I use a humidifier set to 50%, give or take), temps reach the upper 80F's regularly and even touching low 90F's briefly *30-33C*) and cool and humid in the winter (central heating, humidifier, usually 68-71F/20-22C). Come spring time and in to summer it's a molting frenzy lol.If I move, highly likely given my neighbors, I'll note the new temperature ranges.

You could be right. Emphasis on the could, though. There is no research done on the long term effects on feeding. It's generally accepted in the hobby that the amount of food only affects growth rate, not max size.

Hmm. My thirteen year old Lp is barely 7.5" I have been told that seems a bit small for that age (I'm unsure if that's true). There was a fairly long period of a a number of years where she was underfed and I attributed it to that. It's my oldest T, raised from a sling, so I have no others to compare to of the same age. Her last molt took two years from the previous and about 1.5-1.75 years prior to that. Growth rate seemed to slow dramatically as she got older even with increased food.

 

[Ran]

Nighstalker47. A female blondi for $350 is a steal. blondi are very rare here in the states. As for size, I have raised all 3 Theraphosa and blondi/stirmi are the bulkiest of the 3. Size is dependent on each individuals genes. I currently have 2 adult female stirmi that are 7 and 8 y/o and they are both at the 10" mark but the younger one is much thicker as her carapace measures 1.5" long and 1.5" wide. The older one is more mellow and has proven to be a great breeder. I have a 4 year old apophysis female that is over 8" but is very leggy and not as bulky...yet .

 

[EulersK]

Hmm. My thirteen year old Lp is barely 7.5" I have been told that seems a bit small for that age (I'm unsure if that's true). There was a fairly long period of a a number of years where she was underfed and I attributed it to that. It's my oldest T, raised from a sling, so I have no others to compare to of the same age. Her last molt took two years from the previous and about 1.5-1.75 years prior to that. Growth rate seemed to slow dramatically as she got older even with increased food.

Well, 8" is the going rate for LP's, so I'd say you're normal. The same way that there are large adults out there, small ones exist as well. That is a long time between molts though, I'll admit.

 

[edesign]

Nighstalker47. A female blondi for $350 is a steal. blondi are very rare here in the states. As for size, I have raised all 3 Theraphosa and blondi/stirmi are the bulkiest of the 3. Size is dependent on each individuals genes. I currently have 2 adult female stirmi that are 7 and 8 y/o and they are both at the 10" mark but the younger one is much thicker as her carapace measures 1.5" long and 1.5" wide. The older one is more mellow and has proven to be a great breeder. I have a 4 year old apophysis female that is over 8" but is very leggy and not as bulky...yet .

Got a photo with a ruler by chance? I don't doubt it based on the species. I just wanna see!!!

Well, 8" is the going rate for LP's, so I'd say you're normal. The same way that there are large adults out there, small ones exist as well. That is a long time between molts though, I'll admit.

Right on. I thought it was kinda normal to go that long at that age but, again, I don't have any other T's nearly that old. Only one left from my first collection. I guess I'll find out this summer when it heats up again. She molted last June iirc so if she molts this summer I'll know something was up with the long periods. She seems healthy and happy.

 

[Ungoliant]

It is my opinion that the most accurate way to get an idea of a size of a tarantula is to measure the carapace width and length living or dead.

Interestingly, in the scientific community, spider size is usually measured by body length (from the end of the carapace to the end of the abdomen, not including legs palps, or spinnerets). The thinking is that this metric is the least dynamic (most reliable), whereas DLS varies considerably depending on the posture of the tarantula.

Being accustomed to this practice (I am not a scientist, just an educated amateur), the first time I gave a tarantula measurement, it was body length, and someone then informed me that DLS was the convention most commonly used among tarantula keepers.

 

[EulersK]

Being accustomed to this practice (I am not a scientist, just an educated amateur), the first time I gave a tarantula measurement, it was body length, and someone then informed me that DLS was the convention most commonly used among tarantula keepers in the United States

Fixed People in Europe use the much more reliable method of measuring the body length.

 

[Arachnomaniac19]

Interestingly, in the scientific community, spider size is usually measured by body length (from the end of the carapace to the end of the abdomen, not including legs palps, or spinnerets). The thinking is that this metric is the least dynamic (most reliable), whereas DLS varies considerably depending on the posture of the tarantula.

Being accustomed to this practice (I am not a scientist, just an educated amateur), the first time I gave a tarantula measurement, it was body length, and someone then informed me that DLS was the convention most commonly used among tarantula keepers.

I'm thinking that I should use body length from now on. Kind of like switching from imperial to metric I suppose.

 

[BobBarley]

Fixed People in Europe use the much more reliable method of measuring the body length.

What happens with fattening t's up though? Wouldn't the abdomen enlargement affect the total body length?