Systematic revision of Brachypelma, new genus described.

[pps]

All that is needed now is to teach the most popular arachno-youtubers how to speak it in correct way and the rest of the arachno-world will follow If you guys personally know someone, try to convince them to listen to the video provided by @Feral And share the links when someone is asking how to say that, instead of giving them these combinations of english words

@Patherophis thank you for the info!

 

[Moebius]

I honestly like the proper pronunciation the more I repeat it; it's distinctive and memorable. I'll likely give my gal an eye-twitch from the repetition though, so, you know. Win win.

 

[Vanessa]

I have been listening to both the video and another recording of the name posted on the BTS FB page and it sounds like teh-lees-docket to me. I know there is no 'd' in it, but that is what it is sounding like. That's what I'm going with.

 

[Feral]

I have been listening to both the video and another recording of the name posted on the BTS FB page and it sounds like teh-lees-docket to me. I know there is no 'd' in it, but that is what it is sounding like. That's what I'm going with.

Again? No, we can't do the mispronunciation thing again, no.

Isn't this hobby already full of too much misinformation?!

(I will be happy to take my time to explain again why that is entirely wrong, inside out, and how to say it correctly to Vanessa or to anyone...if you want to actually listen and learn.)



But guys...
I just don't understand. How are people possibly still mispronouncing it? What else can I possibly do?! This has gotten crazy. Like, now it's just insulting. All around.
Within this thread you've been handed everything you could need to say it correctly on a silver platter and with a smile, but people just... won't. This purposeful ignorance... I just can't.

Again, I will be happy to talk (here or privately) with anyone who wants to actually listen.

I'm just going to be blunt- I've worked my BUTT off to research the begeezus out of this HARDcore over the past five days to learn as much as I can about the language and make sure all of my sources and materials are legit and correct, I speak (disclaimer not fluently) a related language that has all the exact same sounds in it (including the "tl") and a lot of other similarities in word construction and grammar and intonation, I've provided plenty of solid references to back up everything I'm saying, and I've been in direct communication with THREE native Nahuatl speakers/educators (including the person that did the video Vanessa references and I posted earlier and the two guys that produced the audio clip Vanessa references and I posted earlier) checking my work. Which, by that way, the guys that made the audio clip (the same one Vanessa reference above) are the same guys that made the "kleel TOE cock" meme I posted because they saw my cheater pronunciation and think it is correct. Meaning, actual Nahuatl speakers endorse "kleel TOE cock" for North Americans. (We already covered the version for British English.)

With all those reasons and proofs, and you're STILL not believing me?

I mean, one of the people that produced that audio clip is WarriorExotics on IG. His name is Jay. If you don't believe me, go talk to him and tell him Feral Mina sent you!

What further assurances could you guys possibly want that I am giving you the right pronunciation?!

Insulting.

 

[Wout]

I have been following this thread with mixed feelings. Why are you making a big deal about this? I think everybody is trying there best with the good information that is provided by you. Don't forget that phonetic spelling is crazy hard to do right. This is a international forum that makes it even more difficult. A little trust that nobody mispronounces this on purpose. You did your part and can do nothing more than you already did. It is up to the rest now.

 

[AlynnBity]

I think the new naming is idiotic. They will always be Brachypelma for me.

 

[Thekla]

I think the new naming is idiotic. They will always be Brachypelma for me.

It's not idiotic unless you call scientific progress 'idiotic'. I think it's great they're still researching our 8-legged friends and making new discoveries. And I do love the new genus name.

And hey, your Ts are still Brachypelmas.

 

[Moebius]

'member when the Avicularia revision caused waves? "Ybyrapora" was cool, I 'member *South Park Member-berry-voice* Between that, the division of Tapinauchenius and Pseudoclamoris and this more recently, I've been busy with labels relatively speaking.

The only time I tend to find it troublesome is when you have a species that becomes a nomen dubium without much additional clarity as to where it should be, or what it should be. Easy enough to keep the labels and info intact until there's more data of course, but sometimes you just want to know with better clarity where something falls for sure.

Now, if they ever get around to describing and revising Pamphobeteus, oh boy. That should be outright tsunami's vs the current Brachypelma revision ripples, this one is easy peasy remember-berry squeezy.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

The only time I tend to find it troublesome is when you have a species that becomes a nomen dubium without much additional clarity as to where it should be, or what it should be. Easy enough to keep the labels and info intact until there's more data of course, but sometimes you just want to know with better clarity where something falls for sure.

The criteria for determining a species as nomen dubium pretty much means there is no way to determine the validity of the species. Thus there is no way to clarify its taxonomic classification. As in the case of the name Avicularia metallica being declared a nomen dubium, you have to wonder that since the species couldn't be identified from the original description, how did anyone determine the ones sold in the pet trade were A. metallica? Like I always say, the scientific names assigned to tarantulas sold in the pet trade have nothing to do with taxonomic research. Everyone in the hobby is pretty much guessing as to what they actually have so nomenclature changes shouldn't drive someone to change the labels on their tarantula enclosures. Unless one can verify the identity of the species they have of course, then change away.

 

[Moebius]

The criteria for determining a species as nomen dubium pretty much means there is no way to determine the validity of the species. Thus there is no way to clarify its taxonomic classification. As in the case of the name Avicularia metallica being declared a nomen dubium, you have to wonder that since the species couldn't be identified from the original description, how did anyone determine the ones sold in the pet trade were A. metallica? Like I always say, the scientific names assigned to tarantulas sold in the pet trade have nothing to do with taxonomic research. Everyone in the hobby is pretty much guessing as to what they actually have so nomenclature changes shouldn't drive someone to change the labels on their tarantula enclosures. Unless one can verify the identity of the species they have of course, then change away.

That's exactly part of the frustration; I hate guessing anything when it comes to species even if that's all you get in some instances.

So you get a species in the hobby that's from a taxonomic standpoint in limbo (or never really existing from a mis-ID), I keep the prior label, because, well, there isn't a better or clearer alternative. No real big issue at that point. But come interest in pairing... and the likelihood somebody else also just guessed, and somebody else yet again, and who knows how many times down the line with something that didn't get any taxonomic clarity in the end or potentially a clear ID to begin with, ugh. I get that there are entire genera that are rather muddled in the hobby by default (that we wish weren't of course), but it doesn't make it less of a pet-peeve/irritation.

Wishful thinking on my part that something nomen dubium could have better clarity down the road. Think of it as a completionist drive; it's like missing a piece of a puzzle after a fashion for me, a piece that may never turn up given a lack of materials to pin it down and a place-holder name that never goes away. If it turned out it literally just existed in the hobby from cross-locality muddling or hybridization, or simply a mis-ID of a pre-existing species, I'd rather know than not if that makes sense.

 

[boina]

I'll link to it below. In short, the genus has been split in two with the "red-legged" species and albiceps staying in Brachypelma and the "red rumped" species being moved to the newly created genus, Tliltocatl.

Brachypelma now consists of B. albiceps, B. auratum, B. baumgarteni, B. boehmei, B. emilia, B. hamorii, B. klaasi and B. smithi.

Tliltocatl consists of T. albopilosum, T. epicureanum, T. kahlenbergi, T. sabulosum, T. schroederi, T. vagans, and T. verdezi.

Brachypelma fossorium is transferred to Stichoplastoris but, according to Mendoza, the Longhorn & Gabriel paper overrides this so it is still a junior synonym of Sandinista lanceolatum.

B. alvarezi, B. andrewi and B. aureoceps would have been transferred to the new genus but should be considered nomina dubia.

https://academic.oup.com/zoolinnean/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/zoolinnean/zlz046/5611858

Thanks for this. I just found it in time - I'm in the process of upgrading and updating all my tarantula's name tags. I've just reorganized the whole Tapinauchenius group, now I can start here... although this new genus makes a lot of sense.

 

[ShyDragoness]

Thanks for this. I just found it in time - I'm in the process of upgrading and updating all my tarantula's name tags. I've just reorganized the whole Tapinauchenius group, now I can start here... although this new genus makes a lot of sense.

Hi Boina! Long time no see on here

 

[Vanessa]

I have seen one post here with reference to Tliltocatl albopilosus - has that change been finalized as well?

 

[boina]

Hi Boina! Long time no see on here

Hi Dragoness! I've popped in from time to time, but we seem to have missed each other. Good to see you now .

 

[The Grym Reaper]

I have seen one post here with reference to Tliltocatl albopilosus - has that change been finalized as well?

I do remember that Tliltocatl is masculine so albopilosum, epicureanum, and sabulosum would all need to be changed from -um to -us (the overgrown children in Tarantula owners UK are going to have a field day with epicureanus) but I've not seen or heard anything about those changes being made yet.

 

[boina]

@Thekla - Hi, I've read through all that pronunciation mess (please kill me now ). The sound actually should be more pronouncable for us Germans. Tl actually sounds somewhat like the Welch ll sound, or, derived from German, like a hard ch sound (like in "doch") in front of an l, so it's basically Chliltocachl. Since the hard ch is unpronouncable for most native English speakers (and in most other languages, too) they pronounce it like k. The last l may be lost.

Since no is going to be able to pronounce it correctly anyway you can probably make of it what you want .

 

[Patherophis]

Thanks for this. I just found it in time - I'm in the process of upgrading and updating all my tarantula's name tags. I've just reorganized the whole Tapinauchenius group, now I can start here...

Wait !

I have seen one post here with reference to Tliltocatl albopilosus - has that change been finalized as well?

I do remember that Tliltocatl is masculine so albopilosum, epicureanum, and sabulosum would all need to be changed from -um to -us (the overgrown children in Tarantula owners UK are going to have a field day with epicureanus) but I've not seen or heard anything about those changes being made yet.

@Vanessa Not yet, but we are really close.

 

[Vanessa]

@Vanessa Not yet, but we are really close.

I saw one of the albums in the photo sub-forum was renamed Tliltocatl albopilosus and wondered if I had missed the announcement.

What further assurances could you guys possibly want that I am giving you the right pronunciation?!
Insulting.

Wow, I wonder what it would make me if I had that attitude towards every single non-native speaking person I encounter in Toronto who was having difficulty with wrapping their heads around some of our extremely difficult, and confusing, English pronunciations? I know - a jerk.

 

[Patherophis]

I saw one of the albums in the photo sub-forum was renamed Tliltocatl albopilosus and wondered if I had missed the announcement.

Yeah, I was puzzled by that thread title too.

 

[ThorsCarapace22]

Now I don't own a brachypelma... Very uncomfortable name change. Ah well. : )