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Systematic revision of Brachypelma, new genus described.

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by The Grym Reaper, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. Petross

    Petross Arachnosquire Arachnosupporter

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    Ok, so now i have in my breeding all Brachypelmas and all Tliltocatls (or what the hell are they called this month).
     
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  2. Feral

    Feral Arachnobaron Active Member

    Yes, I feel you! That's neat about German. I've learned that Nahuatl and Cherokee have an extremely wide overlap of letters sounds and syllable accent rules, so cool. So I feel ya. I'm glad the video helped and you enjoyed! :D



    As an update for everyone, I have audio recordings of two different people pronouncing Tliltocatl, who I'm told are both native speakers and Nahuatl educators, in my FB messages... And I have permission to spread them... but for the life of me I can't figure how how to pull the clips from my messages on the ancient version of FB on browser so that I can upload them here. I'm often tragically hopeless when it comes to the latest technology, alas. How embarrassing!:sorry:
     
  3. Brachyfan

    Brachyfan Arachnobaron Active Member

    As an update for everyone, I have audio recordings of two different people pronouncing Tliltocatl, who I'm told are both native speakers and Nahuatl educators, in my FB messages... And I have permission to spread them... but for the life of me I can't figure how how to pull the clips from my messages on the ancient version of FB on browser so that I can upload them here. I'm often tragically hopeless when it comes to the latest technology, alas. How embarrassing!:sorry:[/QUOTE]

    Awesome! I am placing an order with Tliltocatls in it and would love to be able to say the name properly!
     
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  4. Feral

    Feral Arachnobaron Active Member

    :D
    Awesome! I am placing an order with Tliltocatls in it and would love to be able to say the name properly![/QUOTE]

    Gotcha. I salute you! I'll tell you, it took me a looong time to get the "tl" and "dl", and I still stumble sometimes and just generally don't sound like a full on native speaker accent-wise. So if you wanna go full authentic, you have ALL my respect! And... get ready for dat practicing! :bookworm: lol

    So yeahno let's get you those files... Hmmm...

    But for serious... I'm dumb and can't figure this downloading crap out. But i see where it's easy to forward the media to another FB. If I did that, could someone download it then email it fo mean? Or maybe I should just go try from an actual PC. Grrr... I'm dumb!
     
  5. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    I'm going with T. as in T. schroederi. Problem solved. ;)
     
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  6. Brachyfan

    Brachyfan Arachnobaron Active Member

    I try to pronounce things correctly in context of laguage as well. Take the name Alexi for example. In russian it would be pronounced "Alexsee" with a hard Ee sound. But in suomi it is closer to "Ah-lex (i)" with the i at the end being muted a bit. I get laughed at all the time but being in Canada and having 2 official languages it is kinda unavoidable to use the context.
     
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  7. The Seraph

    The Seraph Arachnolord

    USA
    Fascinating! Hopefully you can figure out how to get it in here. Maybe download it and then replied it? Finally, umbrella is pronounced Om-brella? I always said umbella.
     
  8. Feral

    Feral Arachnobaron Active Member

    Okay, for those of you that want the NOT slightly Anglicized but full strength, authentic, real deal pronounciation of Tliltocatl from someone who is a Nahuatl speaker and language educator, below is an audio clip of one dialect's pronunciation and a screen shot of his information.

    He is listed as @Nahuatl.Topanyolpepechtoc and we communicated through his student who said he didn't need to be named because his teacher "did all the work". But he's too kind, he was a very patient and indispensable dispenser of info and great go-between for his teacher. And a hero for his language! He did say, though, that I could say he is WarriorExotics on IG, so shoutout there.

    His teacher confirmed the appropriateness of the slightly Anglicized version for English speakers who can't/don't want to get into the nitty gritty of entirely accurate pronunciation. ("kleel toe cock") Interestingly, this teacher seems to have a breathier "tl" than my other source, J. Adrián Pérez, who is the Nahuatl speaker/teacher who did the video I posted, but I think you'll hear that when I get that clip (hopefully tomorrow).

    They other indispensable person in this is @pps, who is really the actual person who got these files to all of you, not me. He did wondrous technological sorcery! Three cheers for pps!

    https://video-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v...7ac33714fab6f0bc1d1861b326e6&oe=5DC4F942&dl=1
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
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  9. Arthroverts

    Arthroverts Arachnoprince Active Member

    So "Tleel-to-kat"? "Tleel-to-cut"? Gosh, I didn't realize it would be this difficult (I say that as an English speaker; I'm not criticizing Nahuatl). I'm definitely chalking this one up as a win for the arachnologists...

    Thanks @Feral and @pps for persevering to get this right! I definitely couldn't have done it.

    Thanks,

    Arthroverts
     
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  10. Feral

    Feral Arachnobaron Active Member

    The cheater version is "kleel toe cock".
    The accent is on the TOE syllable.
    It kinda removes the difficult "tl" part, which doesn't exist in the Romance languages and their relatives, but otherwise is pretty much the same, short of the fine tuning like inflection, tonality, and nasalization.
    It seems like a lot of speakers of Eurpoean type language just hear the harsher/more clicky "tl" variants as just a breathy "cl/kl", and if they even notice at all it's not actually "cl/kl" it's usually only in the softer/less clicky variant. Like the Cherokee word Tla Ꮭ (which means "no") is a harsher "tl" variant and it just sounds pretty much like a breathy "claw" to most non speakers. Similar effect in Tliltocatl, so the "kl" cheat is the closest you can probably get using English sounds, to do it properly you have to learn to make a noise you never make.
    But are you looking for, like, an actual how to make that "tl" noise with your mouth description?
    I can do that, if that's what your asking.

    Also, I found out there's an city called Tocatlan, which is roughly "Spider Place". I think we should all move to THAT town! :woot:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2019
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  11. pps

    pps Arachnopeon

    If someone would like to share the video in other places then you can use this link https://streamable.com/zs24a , it should be playable on mobile browsers
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
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  12. The Seraph

    The Seraph Arachnolord

    USA
    tliil-TOE-kahtlh. I can get behind that.

    I do not find the tl to be difficult. Just say kl, but instead of keeping your tongue stiff and pushing/pulling down, slightly arch your tongue down, making almost a bowl, and lightly snap down. Try it with clap, clan and clout.
    EDIT: Also think of it as saying the sound more with the front of your mouth rather than the back.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2019
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  13. Feral

    Feral Arachnobaron Active Member

    I'm glad you find it not difficult, super cool. But also, really interesting! Do you use the "tl" or "dl" sound in any languages you speak?

    I make the sound by putting the tip of my tongue on the roof of my mouth, behind my teeth (like where you would put it to start a normal T sound), and keeping a little stiffness to it as I breathe a puff of air to make the L sound so that air blows either around my immobile tongue for the harsher sound, or the air kinda blows the tip of my tongue off my barely off my palate to produce the softer one. I find by keeping the tip of my tongue either on, or very near, the roof of my mouth during the "tl" or "dl" I'm then in a position to go right into whatever vowel sound I need to make next. But that's just me, I'm sure whatever works, works!
     
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  14. The Seraph

    The Seraph Arachnolord

    USA
    Oh, I do not speak any language but English. I even suck at that! I just find it easy and fun to pick up odd sounds and just make nonsense songs of them. Thank you ten years of speech therapy for making me know more about my tongue that I have ever wanted to know. Also, dl is new!

    Interesting! I tend to not exhale a lot at all when speaking except for consents with h, such as kh or th or lh.
     
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  15. WolfSoon

    WolfSoon Arachnoknight

    That’s so interesting, and I’ve been wondering how native speakers form the ‘tl’ sound. I’ve been trying it out by pushing air against one side of my tongue, if that makes that makes any sense. Kind of like making an English ‘t’ sound but on the side of my mouth. Probably totally wrong! :p

    Apologies if this is totally off track, but I stumbled upon the Nahuatl word for tarantula earlier and thought it was really cool - tlalhuehuetl :)
    https://nahuatl.uoregon.edu/content/tlalhuehuetl
     
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  16. Feral

    Feral Arachnobaron Active Member

    Jealous! Cherokee has spider of course, but I've never found a word for tarantula. And that's a cool one, too. so jealous!
     
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  17. Brachyfan

    Brachyfan Arachnobaron Active Member

    Just completed my Brachypelmas. The last one I needed was albiceps and I just ordered one along with a Tliltocatl epicuraneaum too!
     
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  18. Feral

    Feral Arachnobaron Active Member

    I wrote a long thing but accidentally erased it. I'm sleeping dep-ing. Forgive.
    I don't remember, it was probably something boring that was way too much about Cherokee nobody cares about, but I'm just over the moon that I actually got to use it for an actual real purpose. Plus, I got to combine Cherokee and spoods... I'm surprised I didn't pop! :dead:

    But I do just want to say that I hope the correct pronunciation information gets out there, I hope people spread the right stuff and stop shoveling out the bad. That beautiful word, and the culture and people behind it, I hope we can do them justice.

    I've thought about, maybe after the other teacher's contribution is uploaded, pointing this thread, or at least the pronunciation materials, at a few key people. Like maybe some hobby people who reach large audiences, and especially the people who established/named the genus. But I haven't thought that all the way through, and would be happy to hear people's thoughts!
     
  19. Brachyfan

    Brachyfan Arachnobaron Active Member

    Sleep dep sucks:dead:
     
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  20. ShyDragoness

    ShyDragoness Arachnobaron

    Ah shirting fork balls
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
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