Sticky situation in business

[SkittleBunny]

Just a little vent/rant! I'm sorry LOL. I recently needed to sell a pair of T's because I was broke and needed to pay my electric bill. (Has since been figured out since this transaction didn't work out in time) A customer came through and wanted them, but did not cooperate well even though I was clear and professional. Nothing personal to the customer. I recently had to make a new paypal account cause my old one is going through a password lock, and anyone who uses paypal knows they hold funds until positive feedback is recieved or 21 days has passed, until you have decent credit with them on new accounts.

This was never a problem before because customers would send the payment via 'gift' and avoid the %3 fee or simply add the fee with no issues or complaints, since that's kind of how things are online. They were asked to send a non-refundable deposit via 'gift' or send the %3 fee (they did not send the %3..) and when asked for their address for an accurate shipping quote, (they already had a zip code estimate) they told me that I was wrong and the zip code was all I needed (again, never had a problem in the past with this, as the zip code IS an estimate, and IME will sometimes change with address).

I was holding the spiders for them cause the female just molted, and after the hold period they informed me that Dec.4th was a good shipping date. I checked and it was, and I informed them I would need them to release the funds from their end and finish paying so that I could ship the spiders, (or at least get the address for an accurate shipping cost) for shipping Dec.4th.

They then told me they wanted them to ARRIVE on the 4th, not be shipped on the 4th despite their wording so I was pretty confused but understanding. They quoted me many times to ensure I was following my end of the deal, but still refused to acknowledge the %3 part (which may become an annoying inconvenience soon). So they told me they would not release the funds until the tarantulas arrived, which is understandable..but how can I ship them without it???? A year ago I could have taken it out of pocket to fix this but right now Its a struggle y'know? They continued to say "you're broke yet run a 'small business' and have no friends or family to borrow $18 from???" Which obviously insulted me...and this morning they wanted their deposit back (which is %3 short LOL) since I didn't get around to shipping them today because i'm broke over bills (being a new adult sucks!) and I can't borrow money to pay them or ship them so I told them I need to wait until Paypal releases it within 21 days to send it back, I looked and didn't see an option to send held funds back. If it was literally any one of my regular customers they wouldv'e sent by gift and avoided this whole situation lol.

I have major depression and BPD so this particular interaction was/is stressful to say the least. This is the first time this has happened with one of my customers, I don't have a single bad review over my sites/accounts so I'm a little scared. I calmly explained everything that was going on and what's next, I hope they are understanding of the situation because I have no idea what to do about it honestly, besides refund the transaction when Paypal gives me the option or eventually take it out of pocket when I can.

Sorry for the rant, Thanks for reading lol.

 

[Ellenantula]

Wish I had a solution for you.

I've used PayPal for probably 15+ years, so didn't realize this could happen. Didn't even know about 'gift' option. I receive funds immediately from eBay sales -- never had to wait for money to clear. Must be something new PayPal is doing. So sorry you're getting burnt on this transaction. Sounds stressful and defeats the whole point of your T sale.

[Should add, I had my PayPal hacked once but they fixed it. Though since then, I make purchases with either existing PayPal funds (from sales) or add my own funds by buying a PayPal gift card and adding it to my account. Just saying that PayPal isn't perfect]

 

[The Grym Reaper]

I receive funds immediately from eBay sales -- never had to wait for money to clear. Must be something new PayPal is doing.

I had this recently when selling my old phone, eBay instructed PayPal to withhold the funds until about a day or so after I marked the item as posted and added tracking, never happened when I sold my old CPU or GPU on there so must be a recent thing.

 

[Theneil]

I would never expect somebody to ship to me before they received payment in full.

likewise, unless it is a trustworthy friend/customer, i will not ship (or even hold for more than a day or two) until payment in full has been made.

 

[Arthroverts]

Second time I've heard about something like this recently...

I'm so sorry that happened to you, and I hope you don't have to deal with them again. Maybe put them on a personal "Do Not Sell" list <edit>

And if you get a bad review from this customer, just send anybody worried about your credibility over here. We can vouch for ya .

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[FrmDaLeftCoast]

Common sense tells me the buyer should be able to comprehend your situation. You need $$$ - You Sell Item - $$$ is on Hold - Will ship once $$$ is made available. Perhaps they had a bad experience in the past, that has them thinking everyone is out there to steal their hard earned cash.

 

[Vanessa]

Sounds like a scam to me. Nobody ships you anything without full payment up front - both for the item and shipping. It sounds to me as if you were never going to see the balance of the money once the animals were received. I think that this transaction probably ended in the best way possible.
Never ship animals without payment received in full in your hands - paid in full and all the money has cleared. No negotiations, or exceptions, for strangers.

 

[Kendricks]

And this is why I hate people...

 

[Transrights]

So sorry that happened to you, I can completely understand that stuff like that is hard to deal with, physically as well as emotionally.
You don't owe somebody like that anything. You did everything correctly and handled professionally even though you're in a difficult situation.

 

[NYAN]

Sounds sketchy and scammy. I would’ve refused to sell them, but if you needed the money I can understand why that wouldn’t be an option.

 

[SkittleBunny]

Against my better judgement I continued with this person.. I finally had the box packed and taped, heat pack and all, when my printer would not take a piece of paper for the life of it.. it was a terrible day for me since I had promised this person I would ship that day. They are very unforgiving and threatening to leave a very bad review for having to wait so long.. they are very insulting and rude and it's the first time anything like this has happened and I'm terrified. I have screenshots of the whole thing but I don't want to post them publicly for their safety..but I like to vent and get real criticism/help on what I should do... I messed up and I'm my own manager and I'm going up in flames over here so to speak with no one to ask.. I trust everyone here because anyone who buys from me knows how unlucky I am and that sometimes delays happen but the product is always worth the wait!! But I could lose this little extra income source I have (BunnysBeautifulBeasts) over one bad review and I'm unsure how to deal with a customer this rude and unforgiving... *exploding inside*

*also they refuse to tell paypal to release the funds until they get the spiders which threw a wrench in my business and how i run it dang it lol

 

[Arthroverts]

*also they refuse to tell paypal to release the funds until they get the spiders which threw a wrench in my business and how i run it dang it lol

I understand you need the money, but this is starting to sound a lot like a scam. Under (almost) no circumstances should you ship them the spiders if they refuse to pay first; that's online selling standards. Also, considering how they have acted insofar, it wouldn't surprise me if they just decided to not pay even when they do get the spiders.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[SkittleBunny]

So should I try to have the held funds/transaction reversed and not ship the spiders? I know Paypal can reverse the held funds and take them off my account before they are released but I don't want the bad review, how can I explain my right to refuse service and reverse the whole thing without messing up my reputation? One bad review could really mess me up in the future

 

[Liquifin]

Like what everyone said, sounds like a scam. Here's a very, very, very, important tip I learned during my phase that I call the "intern" phase of T.'s from the old days. The smaller or newer you are as a business, the higher the chances of people scamming or fooling you out. This is because of the lack of experience dealing with customers, which people or the customers can take advantage or the upper hand of your own kindness. Yes, a bad review isn't good, but a weak manager is destined to fail as a business if they're not strong enough to take it. I'm not calling you weak, but any business has ups and downs which dealing with it is part of any business. Heck, even I get stuck with it sometimes, but I wouldn't worry because it's a learning process. Once you get to understand the business motto, you'll understand that a bad review that comes once in a long time is not a problem. I really wouldn't even worry about a bad review at this point.

So should I try to have the held funds/transaction reversed and not ship the spiders? I know Paypal can reverse the held funds and take them off my account before they are released but I don't want the bad review, how can I explain my right to refuse service and reverse the whole thing without messing up my reputation? One bad review could really mess me up in the future

Yea, I wouldn't ship spiders if it's this suspicious. My advice and everyone that sells/deals/bargains on the boards, locally, or in person can agree that a bad review is going to be a occurring thing, whether it happens once every few years or never. At this point you can be quite sure there is going to be a review leaning towards the negative side based on how the buyer or scammer is pushing the situation.

 

[Arthroverts]

What @Liquifin said. If a customer is giving you this much of a hard time, a bad review may be a given already even though you have handled things professionally; some people just can't be pleased. However, one poor review in a long line of good ones is easy to overlook.

It is in times like this when a shipping/payment policy comes in handy, so you may want to write one up with this experience in mind for the future.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[Arachnophoric]

I'm in agreement with the above posts - if the customer is being rude, threatening, and refusing payment prior to shipment (I've not met a single person who would have shipped me spiders before paying, nor would I do so myself), call it off and put that person on a do not deal list for future reference. It's your right to refuse sale, and without payment you have NO obligation to follow through with sending the person your Ts.

If you have the screenshots of your interactions to defend and back up your side of the story in this, you have nothing to fear over a bad review. Not that this is probably very comforting, but people still regularly buy from ACTUALLY terrible places despite the bad reviews; just take a look at <edit>.

 

[Ungoliant]

Hindsight is 20/20, but this is why I would not ship anything before receiving payment in full. It's how most businesses operate, and most reasonable customers who aren't trying to scam you understand this.

So should I try to have the held funds/transaction reversed and not ship the spiders? I know Paypal can reverse the held funds and take them off my account before they are released but I don't want the bad review, how can I explain my right to refuse service and reverse the whole thing without messing up my reputation? One bad review could really mess me up in the future

Yes, this is what I would do, because I am skeptical that you will receive payment in full if you do ship.

This was never a problem before because customers would send the payment via 'gift' and avoid the %3 fee or simply add the fee with no issues or complaints, since that's kind of how things are online.

Didn't even know about 'gift' option.

Personally, I would not recommend using the "gift" option to pay for something you are buying, as it leaves you with no recourse should you not receive the merchandise or receive something different from what you ordered.

Additionally, PayPal may revoke your ability to use the "gift" option to send or receive money.

If PayPal's fee is eating into narrow margins, it's better to factor the fee into your price.

I receive funds immediately from eBay sales -- never had to wait for money to clear.

This restriction primarily applies to new PayPal accounts and/or eBay sellers. Once you have an established track record, you generally have immediate access to funds. Verifying the PayPal account may also be required.

 

[SonsofArachne]

Personally, I would not recommend using the "gift" option to pay for something you are buying, as it leaves you with no recourse should you not receive the merchandise or receive something different from what you ordered.

Personally I wish sellers would stop using the the gift option. Selling as merch only adds a couple of bucks, just tack it on to the shipping. Most people won't stress over a couple of bucks if you explain upfront it's for everybody's protection.

 

[Moebius]

Lots of red flags going on; high pressure being put to make you ship despite not having proper funds, exacting dates that don't take into account delays that outright contradict quotes, constant nitpicking and of course, thinly veiled insults to make you cave. I've seen folks pull this sort of thing before, and often it gets dovetailed with sketchy payment methods and excuses. At best, they're being highly unreasonable. At worst, they're trying to steal from you. If it quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, flies like a duck... it's not a unicorn farting rainbows.

If you get a bad review from these folks, be honest and professional about the situation when addressing it and the points of issue. When literally nobody thinks it sounds legitimate and really, really stinks of a scam with the provided information, you can pretty damn likely weather whatever storm they produce to save face or cover up their agenda especially with screen shots, copies of the communications etc. Mock indignation that it sounds highly sketchy doesn't matter.

There's plenty of long term, reputable sellers who have more than one complaint; sometimes it's a mistake on their part that they later rectify to the customers satisfaction, but sometimes it's customers not reading the TOS, expecting LAG when none were given for good reason, or blaming the dealer for the shipping company's issues (they're really stubborn on paying for their screw ups, believe me) and expecting the dealer to pay out for it, or otherwise pay the shipping for the replacement (usually not doable unless the shipping company admits their error). That's usually the most common complaints I see being levied, though with some real epic snarls at times. That's with good folks with long-term great reputations. There's a reason many require some good proof of DOAs too promptly, scammers aren't that rare.

In this case you did not receive the necessary funds to send the animal. Period. What are they going to complain about "I refuse to pay for anything until it arrives at my door"? Nope, nobody considers that valid anywhere. It's an exceedingly rare exception. They aren't getting stuff shipped without pre-payment from anywhere else. You don't do it in this sort of business. Paying out of pocket before you even receive the amount to ship it too... that's unreasonable, flat out.

If it weren't for the language rules on here, I'd be a lot more colorful about what the situation sounds like. If they're not trying to take advantage of you, I'll be surprised, as is it's extra WARNING WILL ROBINSON with them leveraging your living situation and finances to the point of asking you to get money from family... for their order that they need to pay. Keep copies of the communications, reimburse whatever they put down when you can and consider it a lesson well learned.

 

[Kendricks]

They are very unforgiving and threatening to leave a very bad review for having to wait so long

Do not give in to bullies. Ever. Money being tight or not, if you let people treat you like this, it will only get worse as we can see in this case. If you would have immediately set clear boundaries, this would not have happened.
Think of that in the future and things will be just fine!

This abysmal behavior of them is a massive red flag in every respect. You do not treat other people like that.
Threatening people is among the lowest things one can do, verbally.

This makes me so angry!

they are very insulting and rude

Speaking of red flags... ugh.

also they refuse to tell paypal to release the funds until they get the spiders

Aaaand that's the final straw, really.

and without payment you have NO obligation to follow through with sending the person your Ts.

This!
No payment = no contract.

Closing, @SkittleBunny, stay strong, stand up for yourself and your business and do the right thing.
Do not let the fear of others bad-mouthing you via negative reviews take control over the situation - you know how it works.
And screw these horrible people...