Spot on Latrodectus?

[darkness975]

Okay. I hate to have to make one of these threads but I'm concerned.

One of my Latrodectus hesperus has a strange yellowish colored spot on her carapace. Additionally, she hasn't stopped moving since I got home. She keeps incessantly wandering around her enclosure.

Thoughts? Im hoping this isn't a bad sign. This weekend has already been garbage.

 

[The Snark]

Provide a natural environment for her, moist, in the dark, with a good place to hideand check back in a few days. The spot isn't as disconcerting as her not pursuing her normal habits. Widows do not live in bright lights on plastic plants.

 

[darkness975]

Provide a natural environment for her, moist, in the dark, with a good place to hideand check back in a few days. The spot isn't as disconcerting as her not pursuing her normal habits. Widows do not live in bright lights on plastic plants.

They don't live in bright lights all the time. I turned on lights for better pictures.

 

[The Snark]

They don't live in bright lights all the time. I turned on lights for better pictures.

Understood. My suggestion is give her everything possible to take care of herself. Human intervention throws wrenches in the works far too often. In their natural environments, Latros are incredibly durable and capable survivalists. I'd pit their inherent abilities against diseases as the first line of defense.
I'm thinking of the holes in the ground out around Trona on over to Searchlight. Ultra hostile environment with a health widow in many of them.

 

[darkness975]

Understood. My suggestion is give her everything possible to take care of herself. Human intervention throws wrenches in the works far too often.

I agree. She was the largest when she arrived and laid 2 egg sacks with me plus one or two more with the prior owner. I have no idea what this wierd spot and erratic behavior is but I'm hoping its not a bad sign. I know I received her as an adult but I was hoping for at least a decent amount of months left.

 

[The Snark]

erratic behavior

That to me is a warning bell. Something has her thrown off her usual lifestyle. Getting her back in her own groove seems to be your most powerful tool.

 

[darkness975]

That to me is a warning bell. Something has her thrown off her usual lifestyle. Getting her back in her own groove seems to be your most powerful tool.

Thays why im posting. Nothing has changed and the others aren't acting any different.

 

[The Snark]

Okay, so doing some head banging. You have others of the same time frame, same housing, same environment and materials. So we have a control reference and we are looking for physiological differences.
Orientation to her environment? Head up, down, works sideways etc. Comparative analysis.
Movement. Legs, speed, accuracy and actions. Looking for alterations of motor skills different from the control.
Webbing. Have the others completed enough webbing to make sticky lines yet and if so, has she? The sticky lines are normally oriented vertically. If she makes them they should be similar.
Side to side body functions. Are they similar?
Any other dissimilarities in her actions and activities? Keep in mind she is basically a robot with limited mechanical abilities which are the same within a species. You are looking for neurological differences. Something haywire in the computer universal to her basic functions. Disregard physiological symptoms that could result from damage in one locale as a missing leg or inability to operate a leg or joint properly. Look for the big picture, the neurology, which tells a better story of the overall physiological condition.
Essentially, you are doing a miniature paramedic assessment. Patient down, you are in the dark, execute an assessment methodology. Use the controls for comparisons.

Keep in mind the neurological system is the common denominator. As long as it remains functional a spider can continue to operate even if it has lost numerous legs or suffered other significant localized damage.

 

[Cororon]

I hope this isn't the beginning of a fungus infection. Maybe you should move her enclosure away from the other spiders, just in case. And be careful so you don't spread spores to the other spiders (if it is fungus. Who knows at this point).

 

[The Snark]

I hope this isn't the beginning of a fungus infection.

If it is, the situation is moot. Fungi are much hardier than the animals they infect.

 

[Ferrachi]

Like @The Snark said earlier, I would try moving her to a darker room first. Their natural environment is hiding in dark spots so that may help settle her down a bit.

 

[darkness975]

Update.

Her behavior has calmed down so far this morning. Shes just hanging upside down like the others. Last night was insane she kept wandering all over even crawling across the ground at one point and moving fairly rapidly. She did not exhibit signs of difficulty moving, just the amount of movement was surprising.

I'll have to get creative with finding a different spot. Its a small place and the only other real place I could move her is near my other invertebrates.

These were all wild caught so at the end of the day who knows..

Yes she does have the sticky lines going to the substrate. I checked.

Normally they don't live in that much light. It was just lit up so highly for the photos.

She last ate 3 or 4 days ago. Did not show any odd behavior during that that I noted.

I keep them dry, but maybe they need more ventilation. But I've seen people keep them in all kinds of containers, a lot of which have limited or even no air holes.

Trial and error at this point...

 

[darkness975]

 

[The Snark]

If she has sticky lines her primary survival function is active. You can't really go by how often they eat. They can go for a month or more between meals and still be healthy. Moisture wise they thrive from zero moisture and <10% humidity, north of Trona at the edge of Death Valley, on out to soggy holes, hiding under leaky water meters or against sweating porcelain toilet tanks. So very much trial and error. Keep using comparisons against your established control animals.

 

[darkness975]

If she has sticky lines her primary survival function is active. You can't really go by how often they eat. They can go for a month or more between meals and still be healthy. Moisture wise they thrive from zero moisture and <10% humidity, north of Trona at the edge of Death Valley, on out to soggy holes, hiding under leaky water meters or against sweating porcelain toilet tanks. So very much trial and error. Keep using comparisons against your established control animals.

So far this morning she hasn't moved at all. None of them have. Which is obviously normal for them. Its a good sign. But that yellow crap is still on her carapace. Sorry for the crummy pictures, camera wouldn't focus. I fear it is a fungus just based on experience. I really hope I am wrong though.

 

[schmiggle]

I fear it is a fungus just based on experience. I really hope I am wrong though.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's not a classic entomopathogen like Cordyceps. These never emerge before the host is dead.

Having said that, I'm not sure what it is. Looks like schmutz.

 

[darkness975]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that it's not a classic entomopathogen like Cordyceps. These never emerge before the host is dead.

Having said that, I'm not sure what it is. Looks like schmutz.

So would you personally keep the enclosure of this one in "quarantine" from the others? Or just stick it back on the shelf and let nature take its course? My concern was if it was something spreadable given how weird her behavior was last night.

 

[schmiggle]

So would you personally keep the enclosure of this one in "quarantine" from the others? Or just stick it back on the shelf and let nature take its course? My concern was if it was something spreadable given how weird her behavior was last night.

If it would make you feel better, quarantine her. None of these pictures is clear enough for me to try ID it. I'm guessing the spot and the behavior are unrelated. Most diseases and parasites cause lethargy. I personally don't think you've got much to worry about.

Basic statistical principle--the existence of an occurrence is almost always less important than the rate. If her behavior is weird like this again it's more worth paying attention to, IMO, than it is now.

 

[darkness975]

If it would make you feel better, quarantine her. None of these pictures is clear enough for me to try ID it. I'm guessing the spot and the behavior are unrelated. Most diseases and parasites cause lethargy. I personally don't think you've got much to worry about.

Basic statistical principle--the existence of an occurrence is almost always less important than the rate. If her behavior is weird like this again it's more worth paying attention to, IMO, than it is now.

It's like a yellow colored thing. Could be a scrape, almost looks like pollen if it was living outside.
I'll try and get a clearer picture later. It's frustrating because the camera won't focus on the spider with all the sticks and other things in there.

 

[Cororon]

Yeah, maybe the spot and her behaviour are unrelated, or maybe whatever that "dirt" is confused her for a while. Hm, maybe it's her own dropping that she left on the edge of a leaf or a strand of silk and she *oops* touched it by mistake before it dried? That would make anyone behave in a weird way for a while. If that's what happened, then it's good to know that widow droppings are surprisingly free from bacteria.