spider ID , Vancouver BC

dolbyman

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2
Hi there..

My name is Chris..and I'm arachnophobic... big time..

daddy longlegs fine ... those big ones people have as pets.. fine..

but everything inbetween turns me into a whiny wuss

now..the thing is as far as I know here in Vancouver BC there are two spider that actually should make me worry

brown recluse and black widow

I'm pretty positvie on how to ID a widow..but I'm clueless about the recluse

now in my apartment (1 year old new house) I have constantly invaders of the same kind of spider..this one is from tonight (killed by raid spider blaster)



could this be a recluse..you can't really tell if there are 6 or more eyes (bit dark).. but is that a violin shape?


also how do I keep them out?

I have rubber seals on all my doors
bugscreens on all windows..
I spay raid spider blaster
home defense max

and still 1 or two of these buggers a week...I hate it :(
 

super-pede

Arachnobaron
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
543
loxosceles reclusa does not live that far north.the only spider to worry about in canada is the blackwidow.there are some reports that have been disproven about hobo spiders being dangerous but those are very shy and will not bite you.The spider in the picture is harmless.
 

TheTyro

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
418
If you are interested in seeing what some definitely recluse spiders look like, check this out.

http://bugguide.net/node/view/33493/bgimage

You'll see that your spider is nothing like a brown recluse, and actually looks quite a bit like a Tegenaria (funnel web) spider. But I really can't say for sure! What I know is that it isn't anything you need to worry about, so long you don't go pinching and prodding at it with your fingers.

I was also afraid of spiders (well, not as severely as you are! I never killed spiders, even when I feared them) but now I am sitting in my room with about 1,000 of the buggers...voluntarily. :D

If you want to overcome your fear of spiders, I'll be more than happy to offer you some tips/ideas. It is an extremely liberating process and you'll learn a TON. Next thing you know, you'll be excited to see these "invaders". Even my mom and younger sisters can hold spiders, it just takes getting used to being around them.
 

Toirtis

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
316
loxosceles reclusa does not live that far north.
Incorrect....we have them here in Calgary. That being said, their range does not come anywhere near Vancouver.

the only spider to worry about in canada is the blackwidow.
Interestingly, the northern widow, the native species (which, incidentally, you are extremely unlikely to find west of Cache Creek), is relatively harmless. The actual widow risk (again, very rare at best), is from southern widows that have managed to sneak into grocery stores on produce (specifically grapes).

there are some reports that have been disproven about hobo spiders being dangerous but those are very shy and will not bite you.
Truthfully, hobo spider bites do cause damage, although it would appear to be from necrotising bacteria carried on the spider's fangs, rather than by any venom. And although quite shy, they can and do bite, if only very rarely.

The spider in the picture is harmless.
That is true.

Now, please understand that I am not attempting to scare anyone with what I have said, but I detest dissemination of misinformation, even if done in the spirit of good.
 

loxoscelesfear

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
1,056
brown recluse are nowhere near canada. cmon' man. northern widow venom is not to be taken lightly. their preference for wooded, undisturbed habitat is why northern widow bites are rare.
 

jsloan

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
972
Incorrect....we have them [Loxosceles reclusa brown recluse] here in Calgary. That being said, their range does not come anywhere near Vancouver.
Interesting. Where, exactly? That species is not listed anywhere in Canada in the latest checklist, and all of the range maps I've seen place it in the southern United States. Could you collect some and mail them to me (dead, in alcohol). Or, even better, if you know exactly where they are I'll drive down to Calgary and perhaps you can show them to me? I can collect some myself in that case. If this species is established anywhere in Calgary (confined to some buildings, perhaps?) that is significant news. The only species of Loxosceles listed in the most recent checklist of spiders for Canada and Alaska is L. laeta, for Ontario, and even there its presence is "iffy;"

"[NOTE: The consideration of Loxosceles laeta as introduced in Canada is tenuous because it is based only on two records, which were from the same building, 30 years apart, and nowhere else in Canada. Such data may indicate the survival of a low density, cryptic population, which are the criteria used to consider a species "introduced". The other possibility is of two independent, accidental introductions in the same building. If this were the case, L. laeta would likely have been reported in other buildings in the country, which it was not. Accidental and unsuccessful introductions are well-known for spiders frequently intercepted in imported goods, but are not considered introduced because these were never suspected to have established a viable population]"

- PIERRE PAQUIN, DONALD J. BUCKLE, NADINE DUPÉRRÉ & CHARLES D. DONDALE
Checklist of the spiders (Araneae) of Canada and Alaska
(Zootaxa 2461), May 14, 2010

Now, please understand that I am not attempting to scare anyone with what I have said, but I detest dissemination of misinformation, even if done in the spirit of good.
In that case you should give citatations for information you provide, so it can be verified. I've never heard that the venom from L. hesperus is relatively harmless, for example. Or did you mean to say the liklihood of being bitten by one is low?
 
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dolbyman

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2
ahh ok .. so at least those little critters are harmless then ..

still wonder how they get in .. I don't think they breed in my apartment .. I've never seen any shed spider skin .. or smaller specimen (babies)

always the same size brown crawlers that somehow get in just to scare me (it can't be for food because I have neither flies nor other insects in here .. )

biggest scare was last weekend when one of those brown guy hid behind my bed (I do a roundabout check of my sleeping area every time I go to bed)
so I'm fine with squishing one in my sleep and only getting a mild rash from a bite .. much better than loosing a limb due to recluse bite necrosis :eek:)

thanks anyways guys
 
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mitchnast

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
384
All kinds of people are convinced that Loxos exist in canada.

All kinds of people are wrong. period.

Ill pay $100 to ANYONE who can prove otherwise by showing me, in person, (or by reliable proxy in your region) a population in canada (which should be easy as these are locally abundant wherever they occur)
 

Crysta

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
1,475
Spiders are awesome for getting into houses especially when they are warm or cooled to the right temperature.
Hm, maybe you are finding mature males traveling to look for females? I cant really tell from your photo but it kinda looks like it has wide palps(maybe an imature?)

i would love widows in canada if that was true... D:
 

Fyreflye

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
271
Dolbyman, sorry to hear that you are squishing them, but this hobby isn't for everyone. :) Obviously.

As for getting into the apartment (and i'm not trying to scare you! just an idea), spiders are great climbers and can squeeze through very small spaces. Luckily, it seems that there are very few spiders that far north that you have to worry about being dangerous.
 

Toirtis

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
316
Interesting. Where, exactly? That species is not listed anywhere in Canada in the latest checklist
That checklist is sorely lacking then....we have had at least 4 specimens professionally identified here in Alberta (2 in Calgary, 2 from between Milk River and Taber) over the past 5 years. As to why they are not included in the checklist, I have no idea.

I've never heard that the venom from L. hesperus is relatively harmless, for example. Or did you mean to say the liklihood of being bitten by one is low?
Likelihood of being bitten is low, which adds to their lowered level of hazard, but northern widow venom is relatively, less virulent than that of their Southern cousins. Having been bitten twice by L. hesperus, I have some experience in the matter.
 

Toirtis

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
316
Could you collect some and mail them to me (dead, in alcohol).
Should I get my hands on a specimen anytime soon, I will, although I believe that shipping high-percentage alcohol in the mail is illegal, so you may have to pop for courier.
 

jsloan

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
972
That checklist is sorely lacking then....we have had at least 4 specimens professionally identified here in Alberta (2 in Calgary, 2 from between Milk River and Taber) over the past 5 years. As to why they are not included in the checklist, I have no idea.
This is important, which is why I am asking. Do you happen to know who collected them, who identified them, and where the specimens are now?
 

jsloan

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
972
Should I get my hands on a specimen anytime soon, I will, although I believe that shipping high-percentage alcohol in the mail is illegal, so you may have to pop for courier.
That's no problem. I'd even drive down to Calgary for specimens. I don't want them as pets, FWIW. As for shipping them in alcohol, just keep the specimen immersed in alcohol for about a week, then take it out of the alcohol and put it into an empty vial and ship it that way. There should be enough preservative on and in it to keep it until it gets up here.
 
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Toirtis

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
316
This is important, which is why I am asking. Do you happen to know who collected them, who identified them, and where the specimens are now?
I am pretty sure it was Dr. Longair that ID'd them, not sure on the other questions, but I am sure the uni has the data.
 

jsloan

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
972
I checked with Dr. Longair and he said that he's never identified a brown recluse spider from Alberta and, as far as he knows, none has ever been been found in Alberta.
 
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Toirtis

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
316
I checked with Dr. Langair and he said that he's never identified a brown recluse spider from Alberta and, as far as he knows, none has ever been been found in Alberta.
Bob's name is Longair, and I am suprised he said that...I will give the ento dept a call today if I have time.
 

Moltar

ArachnoGod
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Apr 11, 2007
Messages
5,450
I always question the "official range" of a species. As an example, I used to live in West Virginia. According to their official range, mountain lions do not live there. If that's the case how did we almost hit one with our car when I was ten?

However, I'd still doubt L. reclusa ranges naturally that far up into Canada. There is always the possibility that a few individuals have hitched a ride there in shipping containers and established a localized population. This happens with all sorts of small species of animal.

In any case, the spider in the pic doesn't really look like L. reclusa so it's kind of a moot point here.
 

Widowman10

Arachno WIDOW
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
4,212
wow.

yeah, reclusa are not that far up north. no, no, no. IF one, or even two, were to be found, i would imagine they would be temporary hitchhikers. which means there are no populations. they just don't naturally occur that far north.

also, where did you get your information that a variolus bite is not much to worry about? i would be interested to see that scientific literature.

i'm with jsloan (as usual) on everything here for sure.
 

Toirtis

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
316
However, I'd still doubt L. reclusa ranges naturally that far up into Canada. There is always the possibility that a few individuals have hitched a ride there in shipping containers and established a localized population. This happens with all sorts of small species of animal.
Certainly possible, probable, even. God knows we see our share of southern widows, banana spiders, etc up here in Calgary via the same circumstances, and with our south border being a regular port of entry for a lot of vehicles coming in from the US, it is quite likely.

We have a well-established population of African cichlids up in the Rocky mountains, but it certainly does not mean that they 'range here'.
 
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