Spider ID question

Vfox

Arachnobaron
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Okay so I'm a roach and scorpion guy...I'm not entirely knowledgeable when it comes to spiders. This was in my basement yesterday and I can't really figure out what kind it is. I thought it may be a male crevice weaver but it doesn't seem to match what I'm seeing online. It also doesn't quite match the brown recluse as I don't recall them having any patterns on their body other than the violin. But because it had the potential to be a recluse I did kill it (sorry guys, no capture this time) and took these images with my phone. An ID would be appreciated on this guy.


 

telow

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that looks to be a hacklemesh Weaver Amaurobiidae
and a male
 

Vfox

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that looks to be a hacklemesh Weaver Amaurobiidae
and a male
After searching this species online I must agree. I suppose from this point out I will keep some vials in the basement to relocate these guys. I don't normally go out of my way to kill arachnids or insects but until I have a positive ID on a recluse looking spider I will do what is needed. But, because this has been identified as a less harmful species I will just move them to my barn instead. :)
 
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loxoscelesfear

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If you are located in Pennsylvania then you are out of the brown recluse range.
 

telow

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yeah i didnt think about that haha
its true theres no recluse here just some sac spiders and ghost spiders
 

Vfox

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If you are located in Pennsylvania then you are out of the brown recluse range.
That's not entirely true. Two months ago a friend of mine was bitten by a brown recluse. He was working along the Susquehanna river near Maryland and was removing debris to put a fence in. It crawled up his pants leg and bit him on the shin. He had necrosis around the bite site and it's still unhealed. I thought the same thing as well, same with Black Widows...but I've seen Widows in the are personally...but my friends bite was the first I had heard of the recluse in the area. Although a few years ago I did kill a recluse in the grocery stores backroom, it ran out of a shipping pallet from somewhere near Florida.
 

telow

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sac spiders cause the same bite wound as a recluse
i had a bite from one last year and it was a hole hahaha nasty
well after it got cleaned out by the dr.s it was a hole
but i had the spider for a little bit after it bit me but it died after a while
and i havent seen 1 recluse here in the 5 years ive been here and im in farm land areas theres lots of wolf spiders lots of sac spiders and some other small stuff but thats it

widows are supposed to be around in some areas up this way
but they are not common at all up this was from what i have seen and heard
 

loxoscelesfear

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Widows occur in all of the lower 48 so far as I know but are more common in the southern states. Undoubtedly recluse inadvertently hitch rides to places well out of their range. If you come across recluse out of the natural range by all means collect and send to a museum.
 

Vfox

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Widows occur in all of the lower 48 so far as I know but are more common in the southern states. Undoubtedly recluse inadvertently hitch rides to places well out of their range. If you come across recluse out of the natural range by all means collect and send to a museum.
What is a good museum to send invertebrates to? I can't imagine many would take, identify, and respond about an insect. Are their any that specialize in this sort of thing, like taxonomy and distribution? This spring I'm going to attempt to find some cockroach species that I know are around here but are at their "range limit". I'm also going to attempt to backlight and see if I can find any scorpions like they did in Washington county. Any of these would need catalogued of course and a good institution would be helpful.
 

telow

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a natural history museum would most likely be the place for that
 

jsloan

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That's not entirely true. Two months ago a friend of mine was bitten by a brown recluse. He was working along the Susquehanna river near Maryland and was removing debris to put a fence in. It crawled up his pants leg and bit him on the shin.
Who identified the spider?
 

Vfox

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Who identified the spider?
He did, he is fairly knowledgeable so I don't doubt him. Not to mention the open necrotic wound at the bite site. Like anything though it's possible it was misidentified, it could have been similar to what I posted here if the bites are similar.
 

Moltar

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I live on the Eastern Shore of Maryland and there are definitely L. reclusa here. I've seen and identified them.

Published population ranges are notoriously inaccurate for all sorts of animals. For example, I've seen maps that show mountain lions as non-existent east of the Mississippi but I've seen them up close with my own eyes in West Virginia. We almost hit one with the car for criminy sake! I've also seen Coyote in Maryland but they aren't supposed to be here either.
 

jsloan

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I live on the Eastern Shore of Maryland and there are definitely L. reclusa here. I've seen and identified them.
Interesting. Where have you found them (habitat), and how did you identify them? Specifically, how did you determine the species? My understanding is that in order to tell the difference between some species of Loxosceles females you have to dissect out the epigyne and look at the internal structures.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just asking for more details. On questions of species ranges I am always open to revisions.
 

catfishrod69

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yep hacklemesh weaver i got like 7 of them....theres some more in my basement if you want them too....
 

Moltar

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Well... let me take a step back and put it this way. The spiders I've seen in my friends barn and in the attic (and occasionally in the house) of the old farmhouse I used to rent resembled a "Brown Recluse" in every characteristic I know to look for. Medium brown in color with darker violin markings on the carapace, uniform leg coloration (no stripes) and six eyes arranged in pairs. Perhaps there are other species of Loxosceles in this area, in which case I stand corrected. ;)

In any case, I don't put much stock in published ranges of this species or that, especially small animals like spiders who hitch-hike so easily. I mean, if they can be so far off on the range of a 100lb cougar how accurate can they be with a little spider? As the saying goes, nature tends to find a way.
 

jsloan

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Well... let me take a step back and put it this way. The spiders I've seen in my friends barn and in the attic (and occasionally in the house) of the old farmhouse I used to rent resembled a "Brown Recluse" in every characteristic I know to look for. Medium brown in color with darker violin markings on the carapace, uniform leg coloration (no stripes) and six eyes arranged in pairs. Perhaps there are other species of Loxosceles in this area, in which case I stand corrected. ;)
Do you plan to collect any specimens and forward them to an arachnologist for a species ID? It would be worth documenting an established population, if someone hasn't already done so.

In any case, I don't put much stock in published ranges of this species or that, especially small animals like spiders who hitch-hike so easily. I mean, if they can be so far off on the range of a 100lb cougar how accurate can they be with a little spider? As the saying goes, nature tends to find a way.
Speaking of Loxosceles sp. showing up in odd places, this was just posted to BugGuide a while ago:

http://bugguide.net/node/view/478375
 

Moltar

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Wow, I didn't even know we were outside the official range here. I'd always just assumed they were more or less all over the continental US. I'll keep my eyes open for one and scoop it up the next time I see one. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to any of the locations where I've seen them in the past, so I'll just have to hunt whenever I have the chance.

That was an interesting bugguide link too.
 
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