Sorry - more whipspider drama

Rinfish

Arachnopeon
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Augh!

This guy is really a rollercoaster.

I'm posting a picture of his current enclosure because I need help. I was 100% certain my little D. medius was dead last night. I spray his enclosure to keep humidity up 2x a day (often I feel like I have to maintain it at 100% humidity with sopping wet conditions, even though they're supposed to be good at 80%), but I missed yesterday morning. I thought I had been spraying too much so didn't think much of it, checked on him later when i got home (6pm) and he was not only on the substrate, but curling up and tipping upside down/unable to walk. To me those were clear signals of a death throw so i took out his corkbark and sprayed the whole enclosure down like a monsoon in hopes that maybe he would be revived, but went to bed feeling defeated.

I wake up, and guess who is at the top of his enclosure, STILL ALIVE. I think as soon as the drops disappear from the glass of the enclosure, the humidity is too low, at least that's what i've gathered after seeing that there were still spots of wetness in other areas of his enclosure when this happened.

He currently gets a heat gradient from the temp controlled heatmat for my crested on the right side of his tank (set at 80). Hes sitting above the heatmat right now, near the top ventilation corner. It seems that his temps are usually around 67-70. I don't think i can increase them past that without getting him his own heatmat.

I taped off some of the front ventilation this morning, hoping that it will stay at this crazy humidity level throughout the day and i dont need to risk another near-death episode.

What am I doing wrong? Was it really humidity?

He ate, i would guess, 3 weeks ago. I put another small cricket in the night before all this went down, and i saw it alive/pretty sure it escaped when i removed his corkbark. Should I consider feeding him? Will it give him a boost? The petstore employee told me hers eat 1x a month, and any more than that might kill them.

If you guys want to avoid having to explain the a/b/c's of whipspider keeping (since i seem to be unable to get it right), any online resources that you feel are accurate/reliable would be really helpful as well. I've read a ton, but none of it seems to apply to this guy.
 

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cold blood

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1. Give it more things to climb on, like wood that go to the top if the enclosure. They dont much like being on the ground.

2. Ive never paid attention to humidity, i just keep the sub damp, and when it dries out, i add more water. I mist occassionally, but nothing like you...certainly not every day.

3. Add a water bowl at the base of its wood

4. Feeding more wont harm it, and certainly wont kill it. But they can be pre molt for long periods of time when plump and just not need food. I dont feed on any consistent basis, sometimes a few times a week, sometimes monthly, usually depending on their plumpness and hunting postures (or lack thereof).
 

mantisfan101

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It is most likely a wc import and they absolutely need as much moisture as possible. Do not feed him or else ypu will stress him out more. My female ate after 2 months. Get it off the heat mat, room temps are fine. The extra heat might be doing more harm than good. Leave him alone for now. Also the enclosure looks really elaborate, but for a wc specimen I would just keep it in a sterilite bin with a sheet of styrofoam/corkbark with 90-100% humidity all the time till it molts once.
 

Albireo Wulfbooper

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If there is a sufficient layer of substrate and it's kept moist, spraying daily should not be necessary. I can't see what your substrate looks like here. Ventilation should be kept fairly minimal - my amblypygi only have a 1-2" square vent at the top of the enclosure, and it's plenty. It looks like yours is a full mesh lid? If so, I'd cover most of it with a piece of plastic of glass. This will help maintain humidity.
 

aphono

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Is the top also covered up? With my medius in front door enclosures like that, the tops are completely covered up with plastic cling wrap. Usually mist them hard 2x a week plus pouring water in the substrate if it's less than 'moist/very moist'- too moist for a tarantula that needs moist substrate for example. Completely fine if the substrate gets soaked or flooded. Their enclosures look like in your picture after a misting. So the 2x daily misting plus the described 'curling up on substrate' is a bit puzzling to me and seems to indicate the humidity is evaporating too fast. Does the substrate dry out at all?

1x a month feeding isn't the best advise. Generally they are offered prey 1x a week, however they go through phases of eating every week, once every other week or sometimes they just aren't interested for several weeks. Honestly though like @cold blood , I check their abdomens before feeding or not so the above is just broad advise really & not eating for weeks is fine as long as their abdomens are plump. Temps seems ok to me, during the wintertime it usually hovers around 67ish overnights but I do try to make it reach 70-75ish daytimes. They don't like high heat actually- 90F makes them uncomfortable it seems. If yours is large juvenile or adult, offer the biggest crickets instead of mediums/smalls.


2. Ive never paid attention to humidity, i just keep the sub damp, and when it dries out, i add more water. I mist occassionally, but nothing like you...certainly not every day.
.
Diadema(that's what you have right?) are good with what you describe however OP has a medius. These are not bred much in captivity so pretty much 99% of available medius are WC imports(hope that changes soon- doing my part, hatched out a sac). These generally are extremely stressed by dehydration by the time the buyer takes them home. Need super drastic measures with humidity to help them recover at first. So far, IME the fully recovered medius here like consistent and higher humidity than diadema. The CB babies also are showing hints they like higher humidity than diadema babies too.

For analogy using tarantulas, to me it seems diadema could be a whipspider version of say, a G. pulchripes. It's fine to keep pulchripes on mostly dry sub with a moist corner or overflowing the dish. T. blondi need an entirely moist substrate(is this correct? Never kept a tarantula that needs moist substrate...) and they would not be too happy being kept like a G. pulchripes. Imperfect example but hope to convey what I'm thinking. Diadema= pulchripes, medius=blondi. Different moisture preferences.
 
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mantisfan101

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For something that breeds so readily, what yould cause you to assume WC?

WC or CB shouldnt matter a lick with husbandry.
For whipspiders, especially damon medius, it’s a lot more different than Ts. Wild caught medius are extremely common and also very delicate. They’re the most commonly offered species but not many people keep them because of this. They absolutely require excess moisture to survive; I was told this ehen mine began to deteriorate. They aren’t captive bred and are almost 100% wc. The only cb species that you’d be able to find in the states is p. marginemaculatus and p. barbadensis, and maybe some heterophrynus. Damon species are apparently really delicate in general but they’re much bigger and more appealing.
 

cold blood

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Diadema(that's what you have right?) are good with what you describe however OP has a medius
Yes, I also keep florida whips...not sure the scientific name for the little guys though. They seem a touch more delicate than diadema, but my husbandry is the same.
These are not bred much in captivity so pretty much 99% of available medius are WC imports
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.
Wild caught medius are extremely common and also very delicate.
I figured there was a logical reason you jumped to that conclusion.:)
 

mantisfan101

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For the delicate part, medius just seems to be one of those species. Once they go through their first molt in captivity they seem to be a bit hardier. You raise marginemaculatus? Did you ever manage to get them to breed?
 

sschind

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For something that breeds so readily, what yould cause you to assume WC?

WC or CB shouldnt matter a lick with husbandry.
You just happen to know a whip spider super breeder Dennis. :angelic: There are still plenty of WCs around. Especially D. medius as Aphono and mantisfan have said. As far as husbandry goes yes it's pretty much the same for WC vs CB but it's the acclimation that can be tricky.

By the way have your marginemaculatus (florida whips) hatched yet. They are tiny and can be a real pain to deal with.

For whipspiders, especially damon medius, it’s a lot more different than Ts. Wild caught medius are extremely common and also very delicate. They’re the most commonly offered species but not many people keep them because of this. They absolutely require excess moisture to survive; I was told this ehen mine began to deteriorate. They aren’t captive bred and are almost 100% wc. The only cb species that you’d be able to find in the states is p. marginemaculatus and p. barbadensis, and maybe some heterophrynus. Damon species are apparently really delicate in general but they’re much bigger and more appealing.
I can only speak for D Diadema but they are one of the easiest animals I have ever cared for. Much easier than my P marginemaculatus. Even WC ones I've had seemed to do well as long as they were healthy to begin with which a lot of imports are not.
 

cold blood

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You raise marginemaculatus? Did you ever manage to get them to breed?
yes...and yes. @sschind bred the ones I have.
By the way have your marginemaculatus (florida whips) hatched yet. They are tiny and can be a real pain to deal with.
They did...unfortunately it was bad timing and I was away for the weekend....when I returned the enclosure was dry and they didn't make it:( I am hoping to do better next time.
 

sschind

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yes...and yes. @sschind bred the ones I have.
They did...unfortunately it was bad timing and I was away for the weekend....when I returned the enclosure was dry and they didn't make it:( I am hoping to do better next time.
Sorry to hear that. They are tough. So tiny as newly hatched. I've got another female carrying now along with another female D. diadema. Unfortunately I lost my only adult diadema male. I'll have to wait for one of the youngsters to grow.
 

Rinfish

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THANK YOU ALL!!

Yes he is likely WC; I never confirmed with the shop but since all the ones they had were juveniles and adults, it's what i'm assuming. That being said, it's good to know that these DO require high moisture and i wasn't overdoing it. A lot of the care i've read online assumes I have a diadema, and the humidity requirements for those seemed to be causing him a lot of stress in the beginning, which is why i started spraying so much. To also note - I did NOT realize he was WC when I bought him, I prefer not to support WC unless its for captive breeding purposes.

To answer some questions - the main mesh at the top is covered by a plastic lid that came with the cage. It isn't tightly covered but it does a good job at keeping the humidity. Today I covered up MORE of the back mesh with plastic, and now only have a 30% opening at the side vent.

The substrate is a vivarium mix of peat, charcoal, orchid bark, etc, with the selaginella and ferns you see. It's never been dry, but it isn't sopping wet either (I am finding it hard to keep a cleanup crew with sopping wet conditions - if anyone has isopod other than white dwarfs to recommend for that please let me know!)


I didn't expect medius to be such a delicate species but it seems with what happened last night one missed spray could spell disaster. Do you guys think its worth it to have a fogger throw some extra mist in the enclosure throughout the day, or do they JUST like moisture with no excess water vapor? I have a fogger for my crested, and I can always move it over since the fogger is more for his plants than anything else.
 

mantisfan101

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yes...and yes. @sschind bred the ones I have.
They did...unfortunately it was bad timing and I was away for the weekend....when I returned the enclosure was dry and they didn't make it:( I am hoping to do better next time.
Do you still have them? They are supposed to be relatively communal compared to other species.
 

sschind

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Stop by...take one of mine...I have 2 adult males.
Sounds good we can trade. I also have a bunch more mealworms for you if you need them.

THANK YOU ALL!!

Yes he is likely WC; I never confirmed with the shop but since all the ones they had were juveniles and adults, it's what i'm assuming. That being said, it's good to know that these DO require high moisture and i wasn't overdoing it. A lot of the care i've read online assumes I have a diadema, and the humidity requirements for those seemed to be causing him a lot of stress in the beginning, which is why i started spraying so much. To also note - I did NOT realize he was WC when I bought him, I prefer not to support WC unless its for captive breeding purposes.

To answer some questions - the main mesh at the top is covered by a plastic lid that came with the cage. It isn't tightly covered but it does a good job at keeping the humidity. Today I covered up MORE of the back mesh with plastic, and now only have a 30% opening at the side vent.

The substrate is a vivarium mix of peat, charcoal, orchid bark, etc, with the selaginella and ferns you see. It's never been dry, but it isn't sopping wet either (I am finding it hard to keep a cleanup crew with sopping wet conditions - if anyone has isopod other than white dwarfs to recommend for that please let me know!)


I didn't expect medius to be such a delicate species but it seems with what happened last night one missed spray could spell disaster. Do you guys think its worth it to have a fogger throw some extra mist in the enclosure throughout the day, or do they JUST like moisture with no excess water vapor? I have a fogger for my crested, and I can always move it over since the fogger is more for his plants than anything else.
I hope everything works out. Thanks for posting this by the way. I was looking to pick up some D. medius from a wholesale friend of mine and I probably would have assumed the care was pretty similar to D. didema. I'll have to give it another thought though.

Do you still have them? They are supposed to be relatively communal compared to other species.

I know this was directed at cold blood but here are my experiences. I have had 3 batches of babies so far. The first ones I ever had I bought the pair of adults and they already had babies. I tried raising them individually and it was a disaster trying to provide them food and keeping them humid enough. I only ended up with 1 surviving out of 9 and they grew sooooo slowly. The second batch (from the same pair) I raised communally and they did much better after I figured out a method to pretty much provide them with a constant supply of food but I went away for a week and the tank dried out a bit and the food supply crashed and I think they started molting and I lost 6 of the 11 after having them for about 4 months. The Adults for the third batch was from babies of the second batch and they are doing very well at about 3 months. I think I started with 12 or 13 and at last count I had 11. Now that I am raising my own pinheads It is easier to provide them with food along with my secret method of giving them constant food supply. All in all I have found them to be trickier to keep than D. diadema but mainly because they are so small to start with. True pinheads and fruit flies are a must for them but my secret involved those pesky little Phorid flies that I can't seem to get rid of. They do grow slower than D. diadema though in my opinion. They mature much faster though. With a good food supply I'd expect babies at less than half of full adult size and in probably under a year.
 
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mantisfan101

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Sounds good we can trade. I also have a bunch more mealworms for you if you need them.



I hope everything works out. Thanks for posting this by the way. I was looking to pick up some D. medius from a wholesale friend of mine and I probably would have assumed the care was pretty similar to D. didema. I'll have to give it another thought though.




I know this was directed at cold blood but here are my experiences. I have had 3 batches of babies so far. The first ones I ever had I bought the pair of adults and they already had babies. I tried raising them individually and it was a disaster trying to provide them food and keeping them humid enough. I only ended up with 1 surviving out of 9 and they grew sooooo slowly. The second batch (from the same pair) I raised communally and they did much better after I figured out a method to pretty much provide them with a constant supply of food but I went away for a week and the tank dried out a bit and the food supply crashed and I think they started molting and I lost 6 of the 11 after having them for about 4 months. The Adults for the third batch was from babies of the second batch and they are doing very well at about 3 months. I think I started with 12 or 13 and at last count I had 11. Now that I am raising my own pinheads It is easier to provide them with food along with my secret method of giving them constant food supply. All in all I have found them to be trickier to keep than D. diadema but mainly because they are so small to start with. True pinheads and fruit flies are a must for them but my secret involved those pesky little Phorid flies that I can't seem to get rid of. They do grow slower than D. diadema though in my opinion. They mature much faster though. With a good food supply I'd expect babies at less than half of full adult size and in probably under a year.
I’ve always wondered how you fed the babies, I think someone mentioned using springtails somewhere which might work. I’m looking for a male damon medius for my female; do you think that you I could acquire some from him? Does he happen to own a website by any chance?
 

mantisfan101

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Also, have you tried raising little kenyan roaches or red runners? The baby pinheads might be small enough for the baby marginemaculatus.
 

sschind

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Also, have you tried raising little kenyan roaches or red runners? The baby pinheads might be small enough for the baby marginemaculatus.
I have not. I know red runners can climb and fly a little bit so they are pretty much out. Not sure about the little Kenyans though. I thought they needed a substrate and I really don't want to deal with that. As far as the D. medius go he only deals with BAM pet stores. He will sell to me even though I have been out of the business for a while because I am further away from most of his regulars that I don't compete and he knows I don't buy for resale anyway. I'll just pick up a few things for myself now and then when he gets something interesting in. If I decide to take the plunge I'll see if he has any extra males. I'll have to read up on them a bit more though. I don't think they are as easy to sex as D diadema are they? The ones he has may not even be medius for all I know, I haven't contacted him yet. I just saw "whip scorpions" on his list and assumed they were WC and I think its been medius that have been coming in lately. Usually when he gets CB stuff he labels it as such.
 
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