Sicarius

[cjm1991]

Yeah a sac for these is out of my league. I have had 3 people pm me for a sac already But Andy has always been supportive of me, unlike the others. He will get the sac if anyone, I know he will be successful with them unlike me more than likely. Ill just keep the few adults I have and be happy. I now have their enclosures in 10 gallon tanks, sort of a back up in case somehow it would escape. Ill post pics when I get my camera.

 

[John Apple]

Andy is a cool cat...he will take care of ya

 

[Quixtar]

Ehehe...

I'll handle anything... but that's just me. I don't advise this. They aren't aggressive like the Phoneutria I've dealt with though.

That said, anyone want to identify this girl for me? She's not a Sicarius terrosus, but she is one of these:

Sicarius crustosus
Sicarius deformis
Sicarius fumosus
Sicarius lanuginosus
Sicarius nicoleti
Sicarius rubripes

 

[John Apple]

Ehehe...

I'll handle anything... but that's just me. I don't advise this. They aren't aggressive like the Phoneutria I've dealt with though.

That said, anyone want to identify this girl for me? She's not a Sicarius terrosus, but she is one of these:

Sicarius crustosus
Sicarius deformis
Sicarius fumosus
Sicarius lanuginosus
Sicarius nicoleti
Sicarius rubripes

Someday man....someday that one unpredictable wild spider will have a hair up it's ___ and it will find you.....then we all will pay

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Just thought i would share some info. Im not saying that these are not definately venomous, but a 10 year old boy was bitten around here by a confirmed Sicarius and was closely watched and had absolutely no side effects, nevermind death.

 

[John Apple]

Just thought i would share some info. Im not saying that these are not definately venomous, but a 10 year old boy was bitten around here by a confirmed Sicarius and was closely watched and had absolutely no side effects, nevermind death.

sounds like a dry bite

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Could be but considering the 'deadly' label has been given to these spiders because of tests on rodents you never know.

 

[cjm1991]

Its not that they are really aggressive, but if you do the slightestthing to frighten it you may get tagged. And I know that had to of been a dry bite, but it proves that they DO bite. The boy probably just poked it with a stick or step on it by accident and it gave him a warning. You will feel horrible side effects from a bite, possibly die depending on how it reacts to your body and your immune system.

 

[bluefrogtat2]

nice

nothing like setting a good example huh?
just what the hobby needs,there's one in every bunch
andy

 

[Venom]

Ehehe...

I'll handle anything... but that's just me. I don't advise this. They aren't aggressive like the Phoneutria I've dealt with though.

That said, anyone want to identify this girl for me? She's not a Sicarius terrosus, but she is one of these:

Sicarius crustosus
Sicarius deformis
Sicarius fumosus
Sicarius lanuginosus
Sicarius nicoleti
Sicarius rubripes

You aren't proving anything here. We all know that Sicarius sp, like most Latrodectus and Loxosceles, have a very tolerant/ docile temperament. Big whoop. That doesn't meant you treat them like hand pets. All you are demonstrating is your lack of common sense and responsibility. "They aren't that defensive" is no reason to think you can get away with anything. Spiders, even the relatively patient ones, have bad days, and unpredictable personalities. Continue this, and eventually, you will mess up. And just to remind you, that's bad.

 

[Quixtar]

You aren't proving anything here. We all know that Sicarius sp, like most Latrodectus and Loxosceles, have a very tolerant/ docile temperament. Big whoop. That doesn't meant you treat them like hand pets. All you are demonstrating is your lack of common sense and responsibility. "They aren't that defensive" is no reason to think you can get away with anything. Spiders, even the relatively patient ones, have bad days, and unpredictable personalities. Continue this, and eventually, you will mess up. And just to remind you, that's bad.

I'm an arachnid toxicologist at the University of Minnesota. I fully understand the consequences and know what type of action to take if I mess up. I have immediate access to equipment and protocol on hand. It's the only time I've ever held a conscious Sicarius. If anything would have happened, well then, I guess I would have had to become one of the first human test subjects.

Anyway, if you've heard of the US Patent Number 6,998,389, I'm working on SMD binding receptor specificity with a few other scientists. We have a S. terrosus up at the lab. This specimen has yet to be identified.

I'm not setting an example for anyone. I'm asking for an identification if anyone has access to publications on species other than S. terrosus and S. hahni. There's a thrill in doing this you know, but I'm not about to become as comfortable as Grace Wiley was with her snakes. That'd definitely be a bad streak for Minneapolis.

Someday man....someday that one unpredictable wild spider will have a hair up it's ___ and it will find you.....then we all will pay

The handling and picture were done in the lab, by the way. Don't worry about it ruining the hobby. If I did in fact get bitten and die someday down the road from complications, it wasn't residential. Just to let you know though, we still have yet to witness a real-time envenomation in defense from the S. terrosus. All our envenomations have been from intravenous and subcutaneous injections.

 

[cjm1991]

I'm an arachnid toxicologist at the University of Minnesota. I fully understand the consequences and know what type of action to take if I mess up. I have immediate access to equipment and protocol on hand. It's the only time I've ever held a conscious Sicarius. If anything would have happened, well then, I guess I would have had to become one of the first human test subjects.

Anyway, if you've heard of the US Patent Number 6,998,389, I'm working on SMD binding receptor specificity with a few other scientists. We have a S. terrosus up at the lab. This specimen has yet to be identified.

I'm not setting an example for anyone. I'm asking for an identification if anyone has access to publications on species other than S. terrosus and S. hahni. There's a thrill in doing this you know, but I'm not about to become as comfortable as Grace Wiley was with her snakes. That'd definitely be a bad streak for Minneapolis.

EDIT: The handling and picture were done in the lab, by the way. Don't worry about it ruining the hobby.

At least you know what you are doing, that much I can give you. And because this is done in a lab im guessing it wouldnt matter if you got bit as much as if someone keeping them in their house was tagged while handling. Still its a not a good idea, we are concerned about your well being as much as the hobby and the spiders. But you handling sicarius sets a horrible example to younger less bright kids in the hobby that are just starting up. Even though they dont have a sicarius to keep themselves with they may have other species they are allergic to and dont have a clue about. And when they see someone free handling one of the most venomous spiders in manys opinion, it makes them feel more comfortable playing with their inverts.

 

[bluefrogtat2]

nice

it's one thing to do it.and another to post the pic on a public forum,no matter what you do for a living.
life imitates art.and that is definitely an impressionable pic.
andy

 

[Venom]

I'm an arachnid toxicologist at the University of Minnesota. I fully understand the consequences and know what type of action to take if I mess up. I have immediate access to equipment and protocol on hand. It's the only time I've ever held a conscious Sicarius. If anything would have happened, well then, I guess I would have had to become one of the first human test subjects.

Anyway, if you've heard of the US Patent Number 6,998,389, I'm working on SMD binding receptor specificity with a few other scientists. We have a S. terrosus up at the lab. This specimen has yet to be identified.

Ok. I didn't know that. You are quite personally qualified, then.

I'm not setting an example for anyone.

Of course you are! You are kidding yourself if you think that by posting a pic of you handling this species, that you are not making it more likely for a less competent hobbyist to think, "hey, I can do that!" I don't care how qualified you are, posting pictures like that provokes others to try it also.

I'm asking for an identification if anyone has access to publications on species other than S. terrosus and S. hahni.

And you had to handle it to get a picture of it? Come on, you could easily snap a picture of it in its enclosure. The only point to posting a picture of it being handled, is to emphasize the handling aspect. We REALLY don't need that!!!!

[quoteThere's a thrill in doing this you know.[/quote]

I'm sure there is..

The handling and picture were done in the lab, by the way.

You can keep them there. We don't need to see this species handled in public. Whether you performed the act in private or not, you made it public by sharing the photo online. This is a public forum. Imagine....any lawmaker can browse this forum at will, without signing up. How are we going to maintain our "we are responsible keepers" image with stunts like this displayed online?

Don't worry about it ruining the hobby.

Because.....?

If I did in fact get bitten and die someday down the road from complications, it wasn't residential.

Headline: University professor dies from deadly spider bite, from a species one can buy online. If a qualified scientists gets killed...how can we, the "amateur" keepers say we are safe? All that people--and the media-- will see, is that the same animal that (potentially) killed a scientist, is also available to non-scientists...who are assumed to be less qualified/ responsible...and so, more dangerous.

I don't mean to be niggling or pesty...but really, "don't try this at home...but look what I can do" doesn't go very far online.


[quoteJust to let you know though, we still have yet to witness a real-time envenomation in defense from the S. terrosus. All our envenomations have been from intravenous and subcutaneous injections.[/QUOTE]

All species will defend themselves at some point. That point shifts from species to species, and individual to individual. Even with the same specimen, temperament--and tolerances--can vary from day to day. Loxosceles sp. which are in many ways very similar, also do not bite readily, but they DO in certain circumstances. What those are exactly for Sicarius, we do not know. Better to play it safe.

 

[John Apple]

I think and I am sure many others do is this......your handling and posting of the spider clearly shows [yes I said clearly] in a controlled environment [yes in a controlled environment] the ignorance your scientific intelligence exhibits on a PUBLIC forum where some young readers might see...and then tp profess your knowledge while committing a stupid act....yup intelligence...I can pick up big things , but not one of those....

 

[Quixtar]

I think and I am sure many others do is this......your handling and posting of the spider clearly shows [yes I said clearly] in a controlled environment [yes in a controlled environment] the ignorance your scientific intelligence exhibits on a PUBLIC forum where some young readers might see...and then tp profess your knowledge while committing a stupid act....yup intelligence...I can pick up big things , but not one of those....

It's not stupid, it's taking an unnecessary risk for fun, to have possible death waltzing about in the palm of your hand, and to get away scotch free. You can make the comparison to cave diving, which also has that unpredictability factor going for it. I don't gain anything from it other than the satisfaction that I did it. I probably won't do it again since it has already satisfied my curiosity. Sure it defies logic and is unscientific if you will, but don't we all have our own guilty pleasures? :}

I do agree on one thing though, that it's not good for the young malleable minds that may be reading this thread. I apologize for that much. However, if you've read this far into this thread, you should be well aware of the consequences. If I died, you would all have a solid documented case of human fatality via Sicarius envenomation, of which few or any exist. Grim, I know, but this is done and over with anyway, so you can all stop worrying about me. As for what's next...

 

[John Apple]

I do agree on one thing though, that it's not good for the young malleable minds that may be reading this thread. I apologize for that much. However, if you've read this far into this thread, you should be well aware of the consequences. If I died, you would all have a solid documented case of human fatality via Sicarius envenomation, of which few or any exist. Grim, I know, but this is done and over with anyway, so you can all stop worrying about me. As for what's next...

That is one of the smarter things you said with the exception of having a documented case is not worth death or complications at all...and we will all worry about you for the simple fact.....your actions will and can have repercussions on us all ...not to mention any family members you might have...like you say...as for what's next

 

[cjm1991]

He still doesnt realise the damage that one bite can cause. I keep sicarius but they are double caged and about 0.001% chance of them escaping. You should have thought ahead and seen this coming posting pics like that.

 

[buthus]

You should have thought ahead and seen this coming posting pics like that.

Man...just shut up for a sec. You seem like a smart dude, but you come off sounding like a little whiny weeny every time you post.

John, just curious... you didnt go after me for my "handling" thread. :?
For me.. watching the current threads regarding Sicarius and the conversations at hand led me to share my interactions with the species. They do exactly what I have read when confronted by the large and potentially cumbersome. I wanted to prove that myself. Documentation and posting seems important to me...yet I understand the dilemma.

The hobby itself helps grow the myths over reality. I always want to counter that. So heres what I think (JMHO ..take it or leave it ) Theres few animals and living things in general on this good Earth that are truly dangerous to human beings. Theres a BUNCH of living things that are potentially dangerous. "Potentially" has a lot of leeway. What we DO (IMO) want to do within the science of this hobby is try to figure out where things really stand. What we DONT want to do is elevate something that is potentially dangerous but mostly harmless to truly dangerous. Why? Well, because the truth is more important (though to many, less entertaining) then the myth. ...oh that sounds so righteously hippy doooey goo but whatever, its how I feel about it. Ill even go a bit over the crrrraazzyy edge and state..when all the shat starts hitting this environmental fan, what we choose to save WILL, in the end be based on how WE define it. (yes, "we" as in us ..the "hobby" or whatever ya call it.) Do a google search for "sicarius" ...what/whos info are you instantly connected to? WE are defining this animal and no, its not some noble, scientific righteous, hey look at me cause im so important sorta deal ...its just what it is.. a bunch of dorks (at various levels of knowledge) HOPEFULLY trying to get it right. So, lets get it right.
So far.. I think we are doing ..ok.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

So I hear that South American Sicarius species haven't been linked to the same toxicity as both Loxosceles and African Sicarius species. Anyone for a confirmation?