should non adults be allowed to keep scolopendrids?

should non adults be allowed to keep scolopendrids


  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .

the toe cutter

Arachnobaron
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
424
Absolutely not

You will all wake up from your quiet little dark invert corner one day with local headlines that scream something like "Child dies from (insert invert here) sting/bite, Local parents outraged". And then the hell that is raining down upon the reptile industry from PETA and the dreaded HSUS will rear its huge ugly head your way and EVERY MONTH you will have the pleasure of calling your representative or signing some opposition from PIJAC or USARK. And they are getting spread thin as it is! So go ahead sell your hots to "responsible" minors and see what happens. Remember they dont look at how hot the animals are, they look at if they are venomous or not, which would be just about all T's, scorps, and pedes, am I right? They don't even care about the truth or the circumstances led to it, just that it happened. And HSUS wont be satisfied with , "well we will just increase the buyers age limitations" Oh No! They will cry for straight out bans. So yeah again, have fun and shoot, why doesn't someone get that kids address and heck we can all send him some awesome stuff! I have some P. Transvaals and a B. jacksoni, I'll even send the kid my adult female H minax as a bonus!{D With this crowd, your day of reckoning is definately coming soon! Enjoy
 

the toe cutter

Arachnobaron
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
424
And by the way it looks like alot of the people that are saying what a wonderful idea it is to sell hots to kids are underage. Just think about what it is you are doing, or go ahead and feed the fire.
 

micheldied

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
1,328
It's not a wonderful idea, and certainly not a good idea to tell every kid to buy one, but if one is responsible and mature enough, I don't see the problem.
 

Earthworm Soul

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
83
It's not a wonderful idea, and certainly not a good idea to tell every kid to buy one, but if one is responsible and mature enough, I don't see the problem.
If you can't see the potential problem of some kid getting hospitalized and angry parents hitting the news, I really don't know what to tell you.

The Toe Cutter is correct. The invert hobby slides under the radar because it's not as popular as the herp hobby yet, but it's growing fast. A few children getting sent to the hospital is a fantastic way to make the government step in and regulate the hobby like it does for herps.

It's frustrating to see so many invert enthusiasts who don't seem to have the common sense to see how their actions can effect the entire hobby. If you care about the hobby and want to do whats best for it, don't sell dangerous animals to children. I can't believe this is even a debate.
 

micheldied

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
1,328
If you can't see the potential problem of some kid getting hospitalized and angry parents hitting the news, I really don't know what to tell you.

The Toe Cutter is correct. The invert hobby slides under the radar because it's not as popular as the herp hobby yet, but it's growing fast. A few children getting sent to the hospital is a fantastic way to make the government step in and regulate the hobby like it does for herps.

It's frustrating to see so many invert enthusiasts who don't seem to have the common sense to see how their actions can effect the entire hobby. If you care about the hobby and want to do whats best for it, don't sell dangerous animals to children. I can't believe this is even a debate.
And I can understand that, but in my own opinion, that's all the kid's fault and not the hobby's, or the sellers.
 

the toe cutter

Arachnobaron
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
424
Not in the eyes of the HSUS or the general public. It is the hobbies fault and whoever sold the animal to said "child". Wake up, this shouldn'e even be an issue that needs to be brought up.
 

kripp_keeper

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
241
And I can understand that, but in my own opinion, that's all the kid's fault and not the hobby's, or the sellers.
If the child is injured it would be the sellers fault, because he sold it to a minor. Its the sellers responsibility to determine the maturity of someone when selling them a dangerous item. If he makes a judgment call and its wrong it will be entirely his fault if the child is hurt. A big problem is that children are impressionable and the way this child acts around the centipede can not determine how well he will take care of it, because he can act completely different when he is alone. If I were to take out my tarantula with my son standing right beside me he would not be afraid at all, but if I put it on the ground and left the room he would get scared. This kid might act completely different when he has it alone in his room.



Yes the hobby might be hurt, but the child or the centipede could be hurt a lot more. I don't own centipedes(my wife is scared of them), but from what I've heard they have very painful venom.
 

micheldied

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
1,328
Not in the eyes of the HSUS or the general public. It is the hobbies fault and whoever sold the animal to said "child". Wake up, this shouldn'e even be an issue that needs to be brought up.
If the child is injured it would be the sellers fault, because he sold it to a minor. Its the sellers responsibility to determine the maturity of someone when selling them a dangerous item. If he makes a judgment call and its wrong it will be entirely his fault if the child is hurt. A big problem is that children are impressionable and the way this child acts around the centipede can not determine how well he will take care of it, because he can act completely different when he is alone. If I were to take out my tarantula with my son standing right beside me he would not be afraid at all, but if I put it on the ground and left the room he would get scared. This kid might act completely different when he has it alone in his room.



Yes the hobby might be hurt, but the child or the centipede could be hurt a lot more. I don't own centipedes(my wife is scared of them), but from what I've heard they have very painful venom.
You both are right.
I wish that the public wasn't so.....:wall:
 

Mister Internet

Big Meanie Doo Doo Head :)
Arachnosupporter
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A kid would have to go out of his way to get a semi-potent Scolopendrid (ie subspinipes); they aren't native to any part of the continental US. Copperheads, on the other hand, are. I'm sure there are plenty of people catching and selling various native wildlife to anyone who's got the cash.
The main place where I can see a child buying a Scolopendrid is at a reptile show, and I just can't see anyone selling anything to a 4' child. I'm sure there's some exception, though.

I'd also have to agree with the fact that I know several non-adults keeping Scolopendrids (and hot sp.) that are significantly more mature, and responsible than the majority of the people I see on here, and other forums.
You have a really strange view of "semi-potent" ... I would consider S. alternans and S. heros both to be capable of inflicting a bite that would make you have a bad day. Maybe not for pain freaks like cacoseraph or anything, but for "normal" people, especially kids. Those pedes get a stocky 8" long when full grown and are certainly not "friendly", so I don't get what you're trying to say here. It's like people that say that pokies, psalmos, and the like are automatically the most medically significant tarantulas in any given situation... just because their venom is more potent doesn't mean that tarantulas with less potent venom are "more painless", necessarily.

Understand this: you can argue "medically-significant" until the cows come home, but the most HOBBY-SIGNIFICANT centipede bite is ANY centipede that bites a 12 year old that you sold them, and it gets picked up by Yahoo News on a slow day. Worth it for $25? No.

That being said... if the child is truly capable, and their parents are on board... well, it's perfectly legal to sell people over 18 a centipede if they live where it's legal to own one. Most parents of minor children are over 18... you could always sell it to them. If they decide it's really the child's pet after the fact, not your problem. Of course, I could NEVER in good conscience do this with parents who were ignorant of how to maintain/care for centipedes, or worse yet, were bug haters. I would only do this where it's a "bug family", for lack of a better term.

But in the end, no. I think it's a bad idea to put these animals in the hands of minors for many reasons. It's not an indictment of their maturity level... I know many 12 year-olds who could drive a car, and I know many 30 year-olds who should never have been allowed to drive in the first place. That's not the point. The point is that our hobby, by and large, squeaks by under the radar of most state and federal law... there have not been sufficient "watershed events" to lead to outright bannings at the state and national level of most of the bugs we love to keep. Putting something like this in the hands of minors could well lead to such an event...

It happened to millipedes, it happened to phasmids... and if someone thinks that they can't just as easily blanket-ban centipedes because they are deemed too dangerous to have around children, because children were sold them, then that someone would be an idiot.

So, all things considered, no. I consider myself a consummate keeper of centipedes, I've kept dozens successfully over the years, not one escape, not one bite... not even any close calls. Even I, with all my experience, would NEVER EVER give my minor child sole responsibility for a large centipede. They will never be allowed in the bug room without my presence, and they will never be allowed to do cage work, even in my presence. Some things are just too important to be cavalier with.

So, if keeping centipedes is important to everyone reading, then I suggest you not be cavalier with the privilege, hmm?
 

What

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
1,150
I would consider S. alternans and S. heros both to be capable of inflicting a bite that would make you have a bad day. Maybe not for pain freaks like cacoseraph or anything, but for "normal" people, especially kids.
S. alternans actually hospitalized an unnamed adult member of SCABIES... A "mild" allergic reaction plus the effects of the venom in the body ended w/ him being in a *very* bad way...911 was called...(he is fine now and was only there for 3-4hrs.)
 

Travis K

TravIsGinger
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
2,529
Too bad I can't withdraw my vote....

Upon further introspection I have to concede that Minors should not be allowed to purchase centipedes, IMO. I do not like the idea of my own children getting bit by a pede. Though I feel there are some teens out there that with adult approval are very capable of keeping these beautiful creatures. That being said, the sale should be to said adult/parent and in adult/parents name.
 

zonbonzovi

Creeping beneath you
Staff member
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
3,346
There's a blanket ban on millipedes? Just WC & imported Archispirostreptus giga, I thought.:? (frantically scans area, hides millipedes). Native phasmids? Check your state laws for that.

Kevin, I think I read an account of that bite in an online med. journal.(unless it was very recent?)

This is all easily solved with a legal waiver form, ID required from the signer. Put the onus on the parent.
 

kripp_keeper

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
241
There's a blanket ban on millipedes? Just WC & imported Archispirostreptus giga, I thought.:? (frantically scans area, hides millipedes). Native phasmids? Check your state laws for that.

Kevin, I think I read an account of that bite in an online med. journal.(unless it was very recent?)

This is all easily solved with a legal waiver form, ID required from the signer. Put the onus on the parent.
Yes because making people sign waivers is going to help the hobby.
 

zonbonzovi

Creeping beneath you
Staff member
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Messages
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"If you do sell it to him I think he needs to understand that you are selling it to his parents, and they have control over the decisions regarding it."

Thus, the waiver and therefore, legal recourse, should said parents decide to take legal action. It's interesting how one's attitude is altered when one is required to sign a legal document.
 

What

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
1,150
Kevin, I think I read an account of that bite in an online med. journal.(unless it was very recent?)
I doubt it was in any journals, all that was really done was a very large dose of IV benadryl by the EMTs and some pain meds when he got to the ER. I believe he said the staff said he was close to being in a coma when he got there, though...(It was September 08.)
 

Mister Internet

Big Meanie Doo Doo Head :)
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
1,408
There's a blanket ban on millipedes? Just WC & imported Archispirostreptus giga, I thought.:? (frantically scans area, hides millipedes). Native phasmids? Check your state laws for that.
Right. In much the same way that native Lithobius and (well, NOW native) Scutigera species wouldn't be affected by a blanket Scolopendrid ban... it was to prove a point, no reason to get hung up on the details.
 

the toe cutter

Arachnobaron
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
424
No

Wow, I guess the yeas have it! Its cool, I guess the hots I have may get grandfathered in when that time comes....SOON. An AB admin even warned you, but I suppose all of you here are just much more incredibly brilliant and so extremely knowledgeable that you have it all figured out right? Well I dont know about you guys, but hell I'm satisfied with the reasoning and flawless logic here! Things like this is why I really want to move out of the country, its rather embarassing honestly. And exactly why we should bump up the voting age to 25. Thats actually the average age when the human brain stops its developmental process and becomes stable. Cheers!
 

zonbonzovi

Creeping beneath you
Staff member
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
3,346
I'm pretty sure we have a lock on what your opinion is at this point, but thanks for attempting to belittle everyone elses:rolleyes:

One of the hallmarks of a democracy is having the ability to voice your disagreement without the imperial hand of whomever it may be...military juntas, oligarchs and yes, even mods, from stifling that voice- wherever you choose to move to, I hope you'll remember that.
 

l.MetalHead.l

Arachnopeon
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
19
I think they should be allowed to be sold to kids. Why? Just because someone is 18 does not mean that they are responsible. Lots of adults buy things for status value and I'm sure many have bought tarantulas for that reason. Alcohol is sold to people over 19, but that doesn't mean people are responsible (hence all the alcoholics). I'm not saying 4 year olds should be keeping 13" centipedes. But i don't see why a mature educated 16 year old should be denied a pet based on his age. Besides, lots of families have dogs such as German Shepperds which on a statistical basis are known for attacks. Kids infact are left alone with these animals that are basically the size of wolves. The right kid should definetly be allowed these pets.
 
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