Sex his majesty please (emp)

[Scorpiove]

Just wondering if this new emp I got was a boy or gal.



Click on thumbnail to view larger.

 

[Normski2020uk]

Looks male, but have you got any more pics, i could have a look at. males differ from femals in other ways to.

 

[Scorpiove]

Here are some more pics that I took just now hope it helps















and just for a comparison here is my other scorpion which most of acrachnoboards members said was female:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=44254&highlight=scorpiove

and new pictures for her..

 

[Normski2020uk]

I would say Male 90%, big pectines, big chela, more rounded sheild like. Pit pujy, does he eat a lot. Males tend to eat less than Females.

 

[Scorpiove]

Not sure how much he eats. Just got him yesterday to keep the other company. For awhile she kept picking on him but finally they are getting along. I really hope this new one is a a male . Thanks for your input!

 

[Normski2020uk]

Diffine picking on him!!!, the mateing ritual can be mistaken for fighting. Describ what they got upto.

 

[Scorpiove]

He generally just sat there, she came up and started doing weird "push-up movements with her claws. Then she tried grabbing his claws. After that she tried to sting him. Which I had to separate her from him many times. Today thought they were in the same hide hanging out, although I have two in the cage.

 

[Prymal]

From what you've described above, it seems that your 'female' was exhibiting male courtship behaviors and was trying to initiate a mating response in your newly acquired 'male'. However, some females may initiate courtship behaviors.

Luc

 

[Scorpiove]

Well this was the first time my scorp has ever been around another. Ive raised her from 2nd instar. I honestly thought she was scared and was trying to defend herself. Also she looks to be about one molt behind the other scorpion. They are close in size but you can see that the new scorp is just a tad bigger. The new scorp I got it from a pet shop where he was sitting with about 20 others so I guess he was used to other scorps. He didn't really respond at all to her. Maybe just a tad.

 

[Normski2020uk]

Sound very much like the mateing "dance". I have witnessed this before. It could sugest you have 1 male and 1 female, but its been known for different species and same sex Scorps to try and get it on!!!, No harm should come of this, one will eventualy get board and go into hiding or make their intentions very clear.

 

[Scorpiove]

Its strange everyone was so sure that my original scorpion was a gal. The one I linked to from this thread.

 

[Prymal]

Scorpiove,

When it comes to sexing or identifying from photos, accuracy is rarely 100% guaranteed.
So, let's try this. You'll want to place your emps in clear containers that afford you a clear view of the pectines.
Next, examine the pectines closely focusing on the first (proximal) tooth, nearest to the base. If the first tooth appears shorter than the others, it is a female. If the first tooth is noticeably longer, it is a male.
Also, while males typically initiate courtship, this is not a hard and fast rule. Adult males will somtimes court other males (especially pre-adult males). Good luck!

Luc

 

[Scorpiove]

Thanks motorcitysavage, that is more detailed sexing information. I was looking to see if all the pectines were longer. I'll go check now! Thanks again.

Edit: I went to go check and It was still hard to tell. So I scanned both scorpions together. I won't say which is which so there can be unbiased guessing.

Have a go everyone.


Click on thumbnail to view larger

 

[Prymal]

Scorpiove,

While I cannot clearly make out the exact lengths of the proximal teeth of the pectines, based on the size and shape of the genital operculi, I'd say that the specimen in the bottom of your photograph is the female (GO = larger, more lobate). The GO of the upper specimen is smaller, ovoid in shape and minimally lobate. Let's see what everyone else says...

Luc

 

[Prymal]

Is the upper specimen an adult?

 

[Scorpiove]

I'm pretty sure its not an adult it is the one that everyone said was a girl in the old thread. Also I would guess its maybe one or two molts behind the bottom specimen. The upper specimen is the one that has been going wild with jiddering its claws. Going up to the bigger scorp. The bigger scorp would just wait for its claws to be touched. Then it would jidder its claws a little.

I don't see the wild tail movement and the other extreme movements in the bigger scorp. Also if the bigger one seems interested the smaller one usually high tails it to the other side of the cage. The smaller one will also swing the claws wide after jiddering them placing them on the outside claws of the other scorpion. I post on another board and another person said both looked female...... I know its hard to sex from these pics though.

edit: Well the upper specimen is actually in 6 or 7th instar if I remember correctly.

Thanks for helping!

 

[Arlius]

The shorter/longer first pectine is false for identiyfing emps. That is true in some species of scorps, but not emps. To differentiate, count the number of pectines. Sorry I dont remember the counts for male and female, maybe someone else does. Basically for Emps, long feathery pectines = male shorter thinner, more 'packed together' pectines = female. If you have a male and female beside each other, it should be fairly obvious.

 

[Prymal]

Scorpiove,

That's why I wanted to inquire as to the age of the upper scorpion as after reviewing your photos, the GO of the upper scorpion appears to be distinctly bi-lobate indicating a female. The GO of males are oval in shape with minimal bi-lobation. I could be wrong as the photos are a bit dark and it's a bit hard to accurately make out details.

Luc

 

[Prymal]

Arlius,

Thanks for the info. However, I'm not a big fan of the proximal tooth method as in most specimens, it's hard to accurately discern a size difference. That's why I didn't pursue it further. I'm not going so far as to state that this method is "false" as I have encountered specimens in which, this characteristic proved true (at least on one side).
Personally, I prefer using the shape of the genital operculum and shape and size of the claws (not always easy to accurately discern shape and size differences of the chelae). Also, the size differences and "feathering" of the pectines is a bit hard to do if another specimen of the opposite sex is not available for comparison. Also, one person's idea of "feathery" may not be the same as another person's.
I've always relied on the size and shape of the chelae and degree of lobation of the GO for sexing emps and so far, I've gotten it right about 95% of the time.
What we need is a quick and easy pictorial guide - we need to get someone with accurately ID'd adult male and fem emps, a good camera and beyond average photographic skills to take photos of the chelae, GO and pectines of both sexes and have it as a sticky on AB.
Would be nice if they came with either a pink or blue bow! LOL

Luc

 

[Scorpiove]

Hey everyone the user Frylock gave me this link to compare:

http://www.pandinus.net/scorpiones/dif_pandinus_sexes_en.html

Using this link to compare I myself would also have to vote that I have two females! Time to start looking for a male!