searching for the holy grail

Vayu Son

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went out and got a 60-100X pocket microscope from radioshack and started turning over my 2" T's, and i STILL cant find the epiandrous fussilae. So either i have all females, or im not looking right ;), anyone have any enlarged pics of this to act as a guide?

-V
 

Vayu Son

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yeah, but he was right when he said "you re-discover it" for yourself since even his pictures are kinda obscure. What i did get was this: a ridge on the abdomen under the epigastrc furrow is created by the spemethacae and = female...right? whereas the males are alot flatter, and the hair less velvety.
does that mean if the epigastric furrow is a ridge from booklung to booklung it is female? or is that darkness the fusillae. arg!

-V
 

Immortal_sin

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here is another page for you I just discovered. Even stranger, it's run by a guy IN MY TOWN...I found another tarantula person here!
It's a small world indeed.
Good pics here though http://www.angelfire.com/or2/thetarantulastop/molts.html

should give you a better idea. It really depends on which side of the exuvia you are looking at, and it helps to see both the underside of the spider, AND a molt....
At least, it helps me, since I'm not that good at it!
 

Vayu Son

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didnt see pics of any fusillae there. My method thus far has been nabbing 2" spiders and turning em over and putting them to a 60x pocket microscope. If i saw anything ive been blind to it...


-V
 

Immortal_sin

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that is because those are pics of females LOL
they would not have that particular bit of anatomy!
I sometimes think the epiandrous fusillae looks rather like a 'dot' between the forward set of booklungs. Hard to describe exactly, and I don't have a decent macro to show you what I mean. Maybe someone else here has one and can post pics?
Hey, just found a great pic of my G pulchra male right after his ultimate molt....see what I mean???
 
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Immortal_sin

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ok...look at the forward set of booklungs, now look between them at the A or upsidedown U. There is a white 'dot' in the middle, and it darkens after scoeletarization (is that a word???)
 

Vayu Son

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we should just genetically alter inverts and give em a nice fat scrotum with round spherical balls to boot. That would save all this confusion.

-V
 

Immortal_sin

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yes, but then they would be dragging around more mass, and couldn't get away as fast :D
oops.....caught my balls on the cork bark...I'm toast!!!!
 

Vayu Son

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is it possible the fusillae shine white in a certain light? the "third booklung" i was talking about rests in a small triangle in between the anterior booklungs right where the dot is on your males exuvium. It normally blends in, but tilted in the light becomes "whiter" and more apparent.

-V
 

Immortal_sin

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I would suspect so, different species look different, just like the spermathecae in females are different shaped.
I think a big clue is the triangle, as you call it, with the book lungs being more straight across, than an angle. In fact, I just checked my G areostriatum (whom I am 99.9% sure is a male) and the dot is white.
I could try for a pic, but I doubt it will come out.
 

Botar

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So if I'm understanding you right, on a female, that white triangle in your picture won't be there, right? On a female it is more like a slit in that area, isn't it?

Botar
 

Immortal_sin

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correct Botar, no triangle, no dot, a horizontal slit, that sometimes looks almost shiny, and sometimes is almost sticking 'out', like a bump. On mature females...VERY easy to spot....it's the immature ones that are hard to tell apart!
 

Vayu Son

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Also you will find the spermethecae on mature females molted exuvium. As i understand it the booklungs are tilted at an angle as a result of the spermethecae formation. Since males lack this, the booklungs remain rather straighter and closer togethor, with the underside of the abdomen(opisthosoma) remaining generally flat. Males will have a patch of Epiandrous fusillae on the anterior edge of the epigastric furrow, but these can be very difficult to spot, under magnification they supposedly resemble small hairs with curved ends. They form a triangle or a crescent above the epigastric furrow.

Females on the other hand develop defined spermethecae. it is the spermethecae that creates the ridge on the epigastric furrow(see lariz' pics of P.ornata) which is generelly a curved shape from booklung to booklung that can be white or simply a darker bump. This is not visible on all species. The spermethecae formation and the ridge also serve to push the booklungs out and at an angle, thus from booklung to booklung females are more likely to have a curved, whereas males are more likely to have a straight line.

The only 100% scientific means of sexing is either by identifying the female spermethecae in a molt or identifying the male epiandrous fusillae on a livving male spider.

think that covers it..

-V
 

galeogirl

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All of the ones I'm currently trying to sex are exuvium destroyers - it's so frustrating!
 

Vayu Son

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For the epiandrous fusillae(if you have a hand microscope and some dexterity) you can just nab the sling and turn it over and try to inspect. This method can be really difficult if you dont know what your looking for on smaller specimens.

-V
 
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