Scorpion intelligence

[skinheaddave]

don't know, they had a show on a while back on animal planet.

Please tell me you see that those types of show are pure speculation. We can do the same thing here on this board. I predict, for example, that given their general lack of modification in the 400-some-odd million years they've been evolving on land, another million years is not going to do anything for their intelligence.

I fear that the new trend towards ficticious CGI shows dressed up as documentaries on Discovery and whatnot are confusing our youth.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Bayushi]

Last time they had one of those cgi docufantasies on my son asked me if it was true... I replied it's as real as TMNT is until it actually happens.

 

[HackoDis]

I wasn't saying it was or anything. The show showing brontoscorpio i liked.

 

[EAD063]

Please tell me you see that those types of show are pure speculation. We can do the same thing here on this board. I predict, for example, that given their general lack of modification in the 400-some-odd million years they've been evolving on land, another million years is not going to do anything for their intelligence.

I fear that the new trend towards ficticious CGI shows dressed up as documentaries on Discovery and whatnot are confusing our youth.

Cheers,
Dave

Resources like that usually deserve quotations around documentary. Some of the shows are enjoyable, a tad educational, but mostly as you said are speculation and definently need to be called "documentarys". Not a complete surprise though seeing this appears to be the general direction that all news reporting is taking. It's great to point that out Dave and a reminder to all to check you resources and never rely on strictly one informational source!

 

[HackoDis]

Ok so anyone else have anything else to provide to this thread ?

 

[HackoDis]

Dangit, not gonna let this thread die....

 

[vtecgsr]

I think so

When i had my emperor scorpion i would occasionally feed it pinky mice. I noticed it would do the same thing every time, it would would clamp the mouse's nasal passage shut with it's claw. To me, the knowledge of knowing how to cut breathing on it's prey like a lion does to a wilderbeast is intelligence...

 

[EAD063]

When i had my emperor scorpion i would occasionally feed it pinky mice. I noticed it would do the same thing every time, it would would clamp the mouse's nasal passage shut with it's claw. To me, the knowledge of knowing how to cut breathing on it's prey like a lion does to a wilderbeast is intelligence...

You can't really compare hunting techniques of mammals and bugs, thats like apples and oranges. And as for clamping the nasal passage, I'd say with confidence that the scorp is just creating leverage at the front and back of it's prey as to not drop it, by no means must the prey be dead before being consumed, most often the feast starts far before the prey perishes. Especially with a pinky, blind and defenseless, the scorp would have no problem eating it alive. If someone would show me a scorpion who repeatably showed a certain technique that would kill prey larger than itself, I would think it would be worth looking farther into, but not until. One thing I'd be curious of is parabuthus takeing aim when they project venom, similar to how a cobra instinctively aims for it's predators eyes, but I still don't know if that is construed as intelligence or instinct.

 

[Urizen]

a lot of people think that scorps are dumb. i have owned a lot of them. Some are really violent, while the emperors are more communal. You have to remember they can only sense light for the most part, so they aren't going to be able to do a lot of things mammals can. But among those that are communal I do believe they build relationships and communicate between eachother. I feel they all have their own personalities, so they are not as dumb as most people are set to believe. I think it depends on the sub-species as well. Because I have had some pretty dumb scorps to boot.

Communal does not mean social, and certainly doesn't hold the connotations of the human idea of community, this can be held true via the fact that I see more than one post on these forums of 'communal' species suddenly becoming cannibalistic. Also be careful with the term "personality", you may be personifying in your mind, polarities in instinctual behavior, which is probably a genetic event rather than a emotional one. I think in this thread the ideas between what is 'dumb' and 'intelligent' behaviour has been paraphrased and watered-down. In my personal opnion scorpions aswell as all animals, react 'intelligently' in relation only to their basic instincts ie: Alot are ambush hunters however this does not mean that will suddenly construct an elobarote trap to capture their 'human ensalver'.

 

[Zman16]

I read somewhere on here that if a mother emp gives birth, and the young stay with her there whole life (if the mother doesn't eat them), they will make a pack or something. That seems like intellegence to me

 

[EAD063]

I read somewhere on here that if a mother emp gives birth, and the young stay with her there whole life (if the mother doesn't eat them), they will make a pack or something. That seems like intellegence to me

Absoultely not.

 

[Urizen]

You can't really compare hunting techniques of mammals and bugs, thats like apples and oranges. And as for clamping the nasal passage, I'd say with confidence that the scorp is just creating leverage at the front and back of it's prey as to not drop it, by no means must the prey be dead before being consumed, most often the feast starts far before the prey perishes. Especially with a pinky, blind and defenseless, the scorp would have no problem eating it alive. If someone would show me a scorpion who repeatably showed a certain technique that would kill prey larger than itself, I would think it would be worth looking farther into, but not until. One thing I'd be curious of is parabuthus takeing aim when they project venom, similar to how a cobra instinctively aims for it's predators eyes, but I still don't know if that is construed as intelligence or instinct.

The Parbuthus spp. that do, just spray in the direction of the irritant, those that get it in their eyes, are mostly because the face is directly inline with them. Animal looking for a meal, silly person having a close inspection. Again I think this all boils down to the symantecs of how far we'd like to describe instinct as intelligence. I agree with your answer to the 'nasal clamping', I think this is pure coincidence, due to scorpion VS prey size.

I read somewhere on here that if a mother emp gives birth, and the young stay with her there whole life (if the mother doesn't eat them), they will make a pack or something. That seems like intellegence to me

This 'pack' idea, is communal living and certainly as I stated out is not indicative of a 'community' helping each other out, give one scorpion more food and the others less and you'll see how quick the 'community' turns to cannabal cook out.

 

[EAD063]

I was giving some serious thought on this subject a week or so ago. I needed a way to pass the time in psychology, which just doesn't amuse me, so I tried using the different "theories" of psychology and apply them to scorpions. I feel one of the easies and most accurate descrpitions that apply to they're "intelligence" is refering to them as robots. They appear to be so well evolved and adapted to be able to perform new behavior sets. Like a computer cannot do more than what it's programmed to do. But a computer can respond to differnt inputs, ie. when there is an error (somethings not right), you can an error code, thats all it can do, and all it will ever do. With a scorpion, a disturbence would cause it to what it's programmed to do, run away. With a computer, if you get an attack, the computer trys to defend itself, (ie, virus detection software) . With a scorpion, if it is attacked, it will try to defend itself by tensing up and position itself to counter.

A good example of extreme instinct can be seen in most tityus species. Being partheogenic, a scorpion can be completely isolated for it's entire life, but still be able to hunt, respond apprioately to situations and rear new young, and never encounter another scorpion to "learn" these techniques from.

It's hard to compare what we consider intelligence to that of select groups of animals that have been around for millions of years. Many factors need to be considered. One important factor to remember is how important communication is needed for humans to learn, that isn't aviable with all animals. Most animals communicate minimally, they've found through time that, thats all they need to survive. Plus, there is a reason that homosapian is called "smart man", we've evolved into very decisive creatures, but on the other hand, the majority of the homosapian population has lost the abilily to survive in an uncivilized world (ie hunting, prowling for differnt foods). This is something that most likely in time will come back to bite our species in the butt! So when you compare intelligence, you need to consider what we refer to as intelligence and what they're instinct to survive is. To be honest, "smart man" isn't an extremly "smart" species either, (complex and well orchastrated physically, yes) scorpions have been around far longer than any primeape, and will without a doubt will survive far longer also.

 

[OneSickPuppy]

in·tel·li·gence

1. capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
2. manifestation of a high mental capacity: He writes with intelligence and wit.
3. the faculty of understanding.
4. knowledge of an event, circumstance, etc., received or imparted; news; information.
5. the gathering or distribution of information, esp. secret information.
6. Government.
a. information about an enemy or a potential enemy.
b. the evaluated conclusions drawn from such information.
c. an organization or agency engaged in gathering such information: military intelligence; naval intelligence.
7. interchange of information: They have been maintaining intelligence with foreign agents for years.
8. Christian Science. a fundamental attribute of God, or infinite Mind.
9. (often initial capital letter) an intelligent being or spirit, esp. an incorporeal one, as an angel.

 

[EAD063]

in·tel·li·gence

1. capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
2. manifestation of a high mental capacity: He writes with intelligence and wit.
3. the faculty of understanding.
4. knowledge of an event, circumstance, etc., received or imparted; news; information.
5. the gathering or distribution of information, esp. secret information.
6. Government.
a. information about an enemy or a potential enemy.
b. the evaluated conclusions drawn from such information.
c. an organization or agency engaged in gathering such information: military intelligence; naval intelligence.
7. interchange of information: They have been maintaining intelligence with foreign agents for years.
8. Christian Science. a fundamental attribute of God, or infinite Mind.
9. (often initial capital letter) an intelligent being or spirit, esp. an incorporeal one, as an angel.

For a second I didn't see the A B and C under number 6. I was going to say, we all kow the term "Government Intelligence" is an oxymoron. Thanks for the definition, thats defiently should prove the point.