scolopendra safe sex experiment

szappan

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
327
OK, I'll be the first to admit there was clearly some insanity involved here. {D

I was fairly certain that I have a male sc. alternans and a female sc. galapagoensis. Normally one wouldn't think to put them in the same terrarium together so see if they'd mate. However, I was both inspired by Todd's heros experiments and motivated by my own early observations to try this experiment.

Yes, I am very well aware that a sc. alternans and sc. galapagoensis would not likely result in a successful mating, but it's not like I have a plethora of specimens from which to choose from so I went with what I got.

Early Observations.
YEARS ago when I had the two gigantea colorforms, there were no online forums, much less any books on scolopendra sexing and mating so I was a learning as I went. As a matter of fact, I didn't even know they were the same species since one was sold to me as a sc. viridicornis and the other sc. gigantea. So I was really baffled by what I observed one night.

Their terrariums were butted right up against each other. They both had thicker gauge bars for the lid because they were tearing into the original mesh tops (can be seen at the top of this pic).



Both giganteas were at the top of their terrariums and quickly tapping antenna and biting at the bars. Obviously my thought was "oh no you don't, I'm not going to have you two kill each other."

And then, much to my surprise, the dark morph gigantea, climbed down to the bottom of it's terrarium, spun a web and deposited a small white mass into the center of it.

Had I known then what I know now, I would have removed the male from it's terrarium and placed the "female" (?) in there to see if it would pick up the sack. Instead I just stood there in stunned silence wondering what the 'heck' was going on.

Imagine that... I could have potentially cross-bred two colorforms of sc. gigantea! ARGH! :wall:

There are some important observations that can be made though.

First, the scolopendras on that night did not touch any other parts besides limited reach of their antennas yet the male still produced sperm.

Second, the male deposited the sperm despite no further tapping or encouragement by the female.


New Experiment.
In and effort to recreate that night, I built a wall of sorts. It was built of two rows of bars (bicycle spokes, cut and cleaned with rubbing alcohol) that were secured into two pieces of wood with drilled holes in them. The two pieces of wood had to be cut into very exact dimensions so that the bars would be very snug against the glass. The tricky thing was to space the bars far enough away from each other that the 'pedes could tap their antenna but not so wide so that they could get at each other.

One part that I think is key to any experiment is that there are two rows of bars. In looking at the anatomy of centipedes, the fangs are shorter than the antenna so with two rows they can touch, but not bite.

Here are some pics:










One problem I had was that the alternans was thin enough that he could actually squeeze himself through the space. Also, he was aggressive enough that he was actually bending the bars to create space.

It was nonetheless very interesting to see how they interacted with cage. Here was an obstacle that they could feel through but not pass through. The galapagoensis actually figured out a way to just climb over it - and did so quite regularly.

The results were that they got very close to each other, but never realized that there was another scolopendra on the other side of the bars. The galapagoensis was being extremely lethargic (very early pre-molt) and the alternans was very active. A few months later and it was the exact opposite, the galapagoensis was ridiculously active and the alternans was hibernating.





Perhaps if someone tries this experiment with two of the same species they'll have more luck, at least they'd be in the same cycle.

Anyways, ultimately this experiment didn't succeed (yet?) but as much as Todd's cross breeding experiments inspired me, maybe in some small way my experiment will spark someone to try something like this – hopefully with more success!

For your amusement I've uploaded a bunch of the videos of a pair of giant centipedes completely ignoring each other.

DOWNLOAD LINK

It's one .zipped folder about 126mb containing a bunch of .avi files.



There are some stressful moments when I had to grab the alternans to keep him from getting through the bars which you'll find amusing. I think I need to practice my one handed camera skills like arachnogod caco.

Anyways, cheers and I hope you enjoyed the read!


:)
 
Last edited:

Draiman

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
2,819
Interesting, but I am not really sure what you were trying to achieve or observe with that experiment. Were you merely trying to see if the two specimens would show any sort of sexual interest in each other? Or were you trying to mate them? It seems now that if you want to see any kind of a result you would have to take a bit of a risk, and remove any physical barrier between the two and let them interact, albeit under your supervision, in case things went wrong. That would be immensely interesting, although probably too risky; you wouldn't want to lose that female galapagoensis! :)

Kudos to you for trying this out though, I plan to do something similar with the various subspecies and colorforms of S. subspinipes as well. :)
 

Crysta

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
1,475
I think he was trying to recreate the sperm drop he mentioned before, and by the sperm drop find out if it's male and a female?...

I'd like to see some pictures of the wire being bent by the centipede! My dad doesn't believe a centipede could do that. hahah
 

JC

Arachnolort
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
1,421
Nice effort. I will definitely attempt something similar.
 

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Messages
8,982
Good lord!, that's a lot of work, ..and I think I'm doing good to get out of bed and take a shower:razz: Those big S amer pedes run $1000 here in the US when they pop up:)cool: ...nooooooot). I can't get over that alternans. I think they are kind of like heros when it comes to "size". Most are 5 to 6 inches but every once in a while there is a giant. I personally wonder if there is a gene for being very large that expresses itself in individuals sometimes:confused:. Some would say the heros crosses aren't really a result of cross breeding, but maybe more like breeding a white cat with a brown one? Hmm, I don't know, do we really know 100%. I'd love to see you or anybody else get some babies from those S. american monsters, only seen one or two posts of babies. I haven't looked at your links yet, took a real long time to load them. I love that black pede:drool:
 

szappan

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
327
Draiman said:
Were you merely trying to see if the two specimens would show any sort of sexual interest in each other?
Yes, but even if the experiment resulted in just the male producing sperm then I would've been satisfied as it would've been a 'safe' way to induce sexual behavior.

Draiman said:
]Or were you trying to mate them?
Yes and no, obviously the ultimate goal would be pedelings, but I had HUGE doubts that would actually happen - not the same subspecies.

Draiman said:
]It seems now that if you want to see any kind of a result you would have to take a bit of a risk, and remove any physical barrier between the two and let them interact...
Yes and no, I think that someone could start with a barrier of this sort first, just to see if they behave aggressively towards each other, and then move to a "barrier-free" environment for a more natural mating behavior.

But what happened that night between the two giganteas is still very vivd in my mind, and I still believe that the male can produce the sperm sack without risk... whether or not a female will pick it up afterwards is another question.

And again, this initial attempt is flawed in two key ways, first of all, they are not the same species, second of all, they don't have the same life cycle so they are not active at the same times of the year.

I think I will try this experiment again though, if the galapagoensis successfully molts again... [knocks on wood].


CentipedeFreak said:
I think he was trying to recreate the sperm drop he mentioned before,
Exactly! :)

CentipedeFreak said:
and by the sperm drop find out if it's male and a female?
Yes, sure, that'd be a desirable outcome if someone didn't already know the sex of their 'pedes. In my case I'm virtually certain of their sexes. I used the "Official Doom Sexing Method" detailed in this thread.

Although there's a more exact method in the stickies now.

CentipedeFreak said:
I'd like to see some pictures of the wire being bent by the centipede! My dad doesn't believe a centipede could do that. hahah
lol... the bike spokes actually have some give to them, they're slightly elastic, so what was happening was that he was bending them by squeeze his head and body through the space, then they would go back to their shape. I don't think he could permanently bend them with his fangs. The original mesh tops commonly sold in the pet trade? A larger scolopendra will definitely get through one of those, it's just a matter of time.



thebugfreak said:
if its successful, hook me up with some of the pedelings. haha.
lol... will do... but I'm a loooooong way from pedelings.



JC said:
Nice effort. I will definitely attempt something similar.
Cool! That's what I was hoping to hear! Hopefully your attempts will be more successful!



Galapoheros said:
Good lord!, that's a lot of work, ..and I think I'm doing good to get out of bed and take a shower
LOL! Nah, I'd just do a little at a time. I'd be drilling holes one night... clipping bike spokes while watching TV the next... cleaning them off the next.


Galapoheros said:
Those big S amer pedes run $1000 here in the US when they pop up( ...nooooooot).
Yeah, I'm all for capitalism but that seems excessive.

Galapoheros said:
I can't get over that alternans.
I don't know, that alternans named 'Freight Train' seemed bigger!


Galapoheros said:
I think they are kind of like heros when it comes to "size". Most are 5 to 6 inches but every once in a while there is a giant. I personally wonder if there is a gene for being very large that expresses itself in individuals sometimes.
Oh I wouldn't be surprised at all by that.

But you know... I've got another experiment in mind for getting super-sized 'pedes. Unfortunately it'd be a while before I could start it... I'll just PM it to you and you could have a go at it... :p


Galapoheros said:
I'd love to see you or anybody else get some babies from those S. american monsters, only seen one or two posts of babies.
Yeah, you and me both.


Galapoheros said:
I love that black pede
Yeah! you and me both! :p
 

Elytra and Antenna

Arachnoking
Arachnosupporter +
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
2,510
New Experiment.
In and effort to recreate that night, I built a wall of sorts.
This method is described in my centipede book but to this day it hasn't been tried with any vigor. I think it has a good chance of working with a male and female adult of the same species.
 

Malhavoc's

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 12, 2003
Messages
2,837
Forgot: great job on the wall!

Why the double layer?
he was allowing the antennea to reach and touch but keep the fangs apart, that way the only thing risked was antennea ;) Leaving a small gap between fangs, ya know so they couldnt kiss ;)
 

nissan480

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
262
Good stuff Pan,

Alittle more work then I would have done, but something worth doing is something worth doing right.

Very nice pede's by the way


whats the bl on your alternans?

Freight train was def my largest pede. He was also my oldest. Imported in 03 or 04 at a bl of 8.5. He never sat on the surface though so no good pics with a ruler but when trying to measure while he was on the move he was a easy 11.

Cant wait to get some more pedes and give breading a try
 

SAn

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
351
Hey i got an idea.. Put a lion in one side and a tiger on the other. They are both cats right? So maybe they ll forget they are different species for a moment in prison and go commando for babies. {D
How difficult is to SEX pedes before putting them together? Damn if you wanna use bars after that, fine. But at least you ll know what is what.
 

szappan

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
327
Elytra and Antenna said:
Forgot: great job on the wall!
Thank you!

Elytra and Antenna said:
Why the double layer?
Malhavoc has answered the question quite nicely :)

If I was to rebuild the wall again, I'd most likely have the bars horizontal instead of vertical. I made them vertical originally because I thought it would less hinder their antenna from moving more naturally, in and up and down fashion.
But from this experience they seem to get fixated trying to get through at one particular point instead of exploring along the whole length of the obstacle. In other words, if the bars were horizontal, they might find each other easier. That's the theory anyways.


nissan480 said:
Good stuff Pan,

Alittle more work then I would have done, but something worth doing is something worth doing right.

Very nice pede's by the way
Thank you!


nissan480 said:
whats the bl on your alternans?
25cm

Shame 'pedes don't just lie straight on command huh? :p
I don't know, but judging by the pic where Fright Train was closing in on that cornered mouse I'd say it was close to 30cm - but that's hardly an accurate method of measuring.


SAn said:
Hey i got an idea.. Put a lion in one side and a tiger on the other. They are both cats right? So maybe they ll forget they are different species for a moment in prison and go commando for babies.
Yeah because it'd be a real tragedy to end up with the Liger of the scolopendra world… I would HATE for that to happen. :rolleyes:

Liger:





SAn said:
How difficult is to SEX pedes before putting them together? Damn if you wanna use bars after that, fine. But at least you ll know what is what.
If you'd reread my original post you'd see that the purpose of the experiment wasn't to sex the 'pedes. ;)
 

SAn

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
351
well a bad choice of cats (lion X domestic cat is a better example) the point is it cant happen with pedes. And there is no such example in nature or captivity. Only different colorforms
 

Draiman

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
2,819
well a bad choice of cats (lion X domestic cat is a better example) the point is it cant happen with pedes.
What makes you so sure centipedes cannot successfully hybridise? :?
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
8,325
well a bad choice of cats (lion X domestic cat is a better example) the point is it cant happen with pedes. And there is no such example in nature or captivity. Only different colorforms
whew! thanks for solving that mystery! oh wait, you just made a stupid assertion with no proof, that's right :/

<Removed quoted post -MrI>
 

SAn

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
351
whew! thanks for solving that mystery! oh wait, you just made a stupid assertion with no proof, that's right :/
What exactly is your point? That lack of proof works the other way around too?
ROFL {D
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
8,325
er... except that you are the one making the rather brash and arrogant assertion. i am merely pointing it out :)
 

SAn

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
351
er... except that you are the one making the rather brash and arrogant assertion. i am merely pointing it out :)
Can you explain WHAT you point out?
I am saying there cant be hybrids(if someone can call them that) naturally except from different colorforms (i.e heros colorforms mating, s.subspinipes colorforms etc) because there has never existed such a case and there is absolutely no proof.
If i understand right you are saying there could be hybrids because there is no proof it cant be done? Really? In what universe? So there is a god because there is no proof thats excludes the case and also there are centipedes out there that are 10 meter long, we just never see them. Oh wait aliens kidnapped you too once right? {D
 
Top