Saving the Wild T's of Asia (Please give feedback)

Jobe

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 9, 2002
Messages
187
Hi fellow arachnomaniacs.

Heres where i decide something serious.

Im getting in touch with the MNS(Malaysian Nature Society) to maybe start a breeding program on some asian T species.

The main reason being that almost all the Ts ive seen in the shops here are WC. And placed in TERRIBLE housings. Im not sure about asian species found in your countries, but im sure someone has bred them and shipped them there. Also, its possible that they were wild cought and maybe illegally shipped.

If you read my other Thread on going on a hunt for Lyrognathus Robustus, please now know ive decided that rather than take a specimen(other species as well) from the wild, i would try to obtain a breeding pair from one of our insectariums(is that what you call them? :) ) here via the MNS and maybe find a way to get some captive bred spiders into the market and have MNS educate some vendors here. Maybe even send some overseas so that lovers there would be sure these were bred in captivity.

I know i havent done much as yet, but ive an aunt who is strong in the society, and i have discussed it with her on how to go about on these things as i am relatively new to Ts myself.

Just want to know if this is a good idea to go with if i were to get a positive response from the MNS.

All feedback, positive or not, will be gladly accepted.

Regards,
Jobe

Edited in as per context requirements: I wont be the dude running this if it goes thru as i have not much experience myself....relax ppl...they have their experts :)
 
Last edited:

Gail

Arachnopixie
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
521
I say go for it. Every little bit helps in the fight for conservation of natural resources and species. It will probably be a lot of work but you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you are doing something that may just well have good effects that last long after you are gone (not meaning to sound morbid here :) )

Gail
 

LaRiz

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
672
Not even close to being an expert at conservation...

but, it'll take alot of resources to consider setting up breeding programs for any species of fauna. First, populations of candidate species must be learned and then decided if they're in danger, or threatened.
If the problem where you live is the poor conditions of captive animals, then trying to persuade shop owners to properly care for their charges is the way to go.
john
 

Vayu Son

Avatar of Anansi
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Joined
Jul 19, 2002
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809
><

Definately a good idea, but if your new to t's it seems unlikely, also unlikely that they would donate specimens to someone whom has no experience/no scientific degree/no credible backings. IF you can get the experience/training, or develop a staff that is capable, i think it would be an excellent program to waylay the capture of wild specimens there.


-V
 

Botar

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
1,442
Seems like a good goal for a lifelong quest to me. Nothing changes quickly, so start out slow and build experience/momentum as you go. I just hope you will be able to have your efforts in full swing before too much damage is done. Good luck... you know you've got a bunch of friends with which you can brainstrom if you run into problems.

Botar
 

Jobe

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 9, 2002
Messages
187
Forgot to add in that the breeding etc wont be done by me fellars, dont worry :D , if any program would be done by MNS, they have their own entomologists and resources etc.

My role in this society is to just bring up the matter to them. Would like to play as much of a role as possible, but i know MY limitations.

Please dont think that I will be doing the breeding in my back yard :)
heh heh

Cheers
 

betelgeuse

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 7, 2002
Messages
12
Hello Jobe,

Whereabouts in Malaysia are you based? I have been to many places in Malaysia in the past couple of years studying invertebrates there.

I have witnessed the devasation caused by the collecting of C. Validus in one location in Malaysia (I am always deliberately vague with Malaysian place names whilst online in order to avoid tipping Western dealers off). The location, which I shall call "A", previously had this species in abundance, but, just one year later, they had all been stripped. This damaged the local ecosystem as it meant that there was less competition for burrow space for the Liphistius species there and so they became the top spider in the local food chain and so thrived more than nature intended them to.

I have also seen one tradesman with literally thousands of live specimens of tarantulas, beetles and stick insects (he had a shop full of them and a warehouse full of them). He captive bred the tarantulas and was knowledgeable about them. He captive bred them because this meant that he could rear them to a good size without them loosing legs and stuff(which they are prone to do in the wild). This captive breeding program also meant that he did not have to go out to collect the tarantulas.

The reason he wanted perfectly formed adult tarantulas? To kill and put in frames for the Japanese and Singapore business men who collect dead bugs. The reason why he could not afford to go out and collect the tarantulas? Because these specimens which he had were hard to find. The species was none other than Cyriopagopus Thorelli. He had thousands of them of all different sizes to kill and put in frames.

In his defence (and it is a flimsy one), I would say that, at least they were captive bred, but still, not very nice to see. It amazed me that tarantula keepers in the West would love a live Thorelli, but he was unaware of the value in keeping them alive.

All of the adult Rhinocerous Beetles he had (thousands) were all slowly being killed in a room by Promethean coils.

I agree with you that Malaysia has some fantastic wildlife and is lucky enough to have the oldest rainforest on Earth and wish you luck.

I do think that you would be fighting an uphill battle though as many of the people who are doing this to Malaysia's wildlife operate in unmarked premises that are only known to the same unscrupulous people who wish to trade with them.

All the best Jobe.
 

Jobe

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 9, 2002
Messages
187
I understand what you mean Betelgeuse, some of the ppl here would do anything for a dollar. Sad to say, but some of these ppl would sell their mothers for the right price.

The dead-insect trade thrives here as there is no tourist-trap flea market withhout an insect keychain or butterfly shop. It does indeed hurt to see some species like the Morpho and Raja-Brooke framed up rather than fluttering around.

Dead spiders seem to be loved by most collectors here as they have a very sad misunderstanding of spiders. Almost everybody here believes that tarantulas, or any other large arachnid for that matter, has a poisonous bite. And because of that, a framed up Earth-Tiger seem to be a wonderfull addition to their home showcases.

Sad.
 

betelgeuse

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 7, 2002
Messages
12
Unfortunately the trade in dead bugs does almost as well over here as well. It tends to be more butterflies than spiders over here though and people over here always assume that tarantulas are deadly too.

Your breeding program, if it obtained publicity in Malaysia, could be a means of educating people about spiders.

England has no spiders capable of giving a bite any worse than a wasp sting and yet most people over here are petrified of spiders. It is strange.

It is those pesky Malaysian leeches and mozzies that are the real bad guys :D
 

Vayu Son

Avatar of Anansi
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Something that might back credibility to your project would be to contact experts on the malaysian species or arachnologists in the U.S and petition them to write to the MNS about the benefits of the captive breeding programs for species survival/education. You may also find success in some random invert dealer who would like to make a few big bucks. By convincing him to captive breed these spiders and create a demand for them, there will be less need for others to capture them, and more $ for him by opening international trade on solely native species. It is a sad but true fact that many inverts and animals only hope of survival is in our homes and in our hobby.
 

AlbinoDragon829

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
383
Go for it man. There aren't a lot of Asian species around my part of the states. And the ones that I've seen in stores, have had piss poor conditions.
 

Jobe

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 9, 2002
Messages
187
The feedback is great ppl, keep em coming : )

Vayu Son, you have a fantastic point on the peetition. Ill be contacting USM (University of Science, Malaysia) via MNS, based in my state to see if theres anyone there who would support this idea.

Unfortunately, all traders here want to make a big buck. I have limited xp in Ts, but i learn fast enough, enough to see that traders here would rather pay some dude a few bucks to hunt wild Ts than to sacrifice valuable display floor space for breeding purposes. Simple conclusion of their minds: Big spida = Instant Big Buck$, everyone thinks these are imported species due to lack of knowledge, so the traders usually charge "Exotic" species prices...its depressing. And they never seem to know what species or even the common name of some of the ts they have for display are.

Cheers for the support everyone.
 

Jobe

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 9, 2002
Messages
187
Just saw the saddest thing... there was this high-fly hot market expo down at one of the malls, and one dude selling all sorts of animals for almost double the price.

Had a rack of H. Lividums and a whole lotta Chylobrachys sp. which im not sure about but they were in horrid little plastic tanks and he would just shake the tanks violently is anyone who passes by mentions something about a dead looking spider.

Talked to the owner, he doesnt even know what the common names of any of them was. Claims they were imported from the Fillipines, but these sp is found in Malaysia and our upper neihgbour Thailand itself...

All he was interested in was wether i wanted to buy one or not...

The Ts looked like they were gonna drop dead any moment. Messy smelly tanks, no clean water, and some with no water at all...was wondering what a shrunken T abdomen looked like untill i saw what he was selling...

-Extremely peeved....sorry, just had to post, even tho its a little long......
 

Ephesians

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Messages
353
I'm really great to hear your enthusiasm in this, Jobe. Looks like my 2 cents in the other post got you on the right track...lol. You're doing a great thing, getting involved in this; and no matter how much someone tries to drag you down or make it tough for you...just keep the ultimate picture in mine and know that God is with you in all you do if only you ask for His help. And trust me, His help can provide a great deal of things. The trade needs more people with your heart and concern and I admire your passion in this display. Good luck and may God be with you, my friend.

Marcus
 

Lycanthrope

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Messages
624
spiders in frames

Thats absolutely terrible, killing perfecly good T's for decoration. i myself have a T in a frame, but it was my Chilobrachys Sp. which died of natural causes. Just goes to show what a lil greed and avarice can produce.
 

Randy

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
663
I have tried contacting MNS several times regarding breedign projects, sponsorship, and the permission to have an expo sometime here in Malaysia but sad news is they dont seem to be responding to me. or at least MTS. which is why we take things in hand ourselves. Its not that i am trying to critisize but, in my opinion, MNS is quite inactive (well i may be wrong ) . Anyway if you're interested to work together to start of a breeding project or so you can contact us at info@mtsociety.com ..

and about those pet shows from petshops, trust me, they're put for profit only and i am pretty sure you're aware of it. i havent really noticed any petshop that would actually go the extra mile to put any extra effort to care for those tarantulas. And like what Jobe said, the price are doubled, but in my opinion, they are trippled!
Here in JB, a state of malaysia, one Brachypelma Smithi is beeing sold at MYR$600 ? thats nonsense..
 

Tony

Arachno-pragmatarian
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
1,021
1 Malaysian ringgit (MYR) = 0.265111 U.S. dollars (Today)
So 600 MYR = approx $159 USD ?
What is the size of the B smithi

Tony
 

Randy

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
663
tony said:
1 Malaysian ringgit (MYR) = 0.265111 U.S. dollars (Today)
So 600 MYR = approx $159 USD ?
What is the size of the B smithi

Tony
its about 4 to 5 inch LS .. so wut do u think ? :wall:
 

phormingochilus

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
791
Hi Jobe

You have a good motivation. I will try not to sound too sinister, but if you wish to preserve a species, it's perhaps wiser to look around the species than at the species. What I mean is that what is the reason to preserve a species when it's natural habitat has seized to exist? Preservation for preservations sake is not my cup of tea and when you think about it not too far distanced from the framed dried specimen. What I would suggest, and this may prove a hell of a lot harder than to establish a captive breeding programme, is that you try to gain momentum to be able to map, document and protect the habitats and biotopes where the spiders (and the rest of that specific ecosystem) lives. I know Malaysia has already taken great steps in biotope preservation, but it won't hurt to push it further. The good news? It's already in progress - or at least someone has reckognised the need (http://www.worldwildlife.org/science/ecoregions/terrestrial.cfm), the big hurdle is to get the politicians to reckognise the importance of this need too, so sufficient fundings can be put into action. It is very important to understand and emphathise that the greatest threat to any endangered species is not so much illegal collecting and poaching as the rapid destruction of natural habitat, converted to pastures, farmland and urban areas.

Hope this was food for thought and not a killer of initiative ;-)

Very Best Regards
Søren

Jobe said:
Hi fellow arachnomaniacs.

Heres where i decide something serious.

Im getting in touch with the MNS(Malaysian Nature Society) to maybe start a breeding program on some asian T species.

The main reason being that almost all the Ts ive seen in the shops here are WC. And placed in TERRIBLE housings. Im not sure about asian species found in your countries, but im sure someone has bred them and shipped them there. Also, its possible that they were wild cought and maybe illegally shipped.

If you read my other Thread on going on a hunt for Lyrognathus Robustus, please now know ive decided that rather than take a specimen(other species as well) from the wild, i would try to obtain a breeding pair from one of our insectariums(is that what you call them? :) ) here via the MNS and maybe find a way to get some captive bred spiders into the market and have MNS educate some vendors here. Maybe even send some overseas so that lovers there would be sure these were bred in captivity.

I know i havent done much as yet, but ive an aunt who is strong in the society, and i have discussed it with her on how to go about on these things as i am relatively new to Ts myself.

Just want to know if this is a good idea to go with if i were to get a positive response from the MNS.

All feedback, positive or not, will be gladly accepted.

Regards,
Jobe

Edited in as per context requirements: I wont be the dude running this if it goes thru as i have not much experience myself....relax ppl...they have their experts :)
 
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