Sac without actual mating

robd

Arachnobaron
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May 19, 2009
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Is there an actual term or name for when this happens?

Our E campestratus laid one of these last week and I was wondering if anyone knows. I remember reading about someone having this happen to their Avic and they knew it hadn't mated with any T.

Granted, she is WC... but I've had her since April and it would not make sense for her to just spring out a sac 5 months later. Surely unfertilized eggs.

So would you call that an unfertilized sac?
 

codykrr

Arachnoking
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I have always heard referred to as "ghost sacs" "false sacs".

Also some species can be gravid for up to a few years before they make a sac. so I wouldnt rule it as "infertile" (though it probably is) I would let her keep it for a few weeks and see.

Good luck.

Edit- I have a P. irminia female I raised from a 1/4 inch sling drop a dud sac on me a while back as well. I never paired her and she was maybe 3.5 inches when she laid it.
 

Miss Bianca

Arachnoprince
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I've heard it referred to as a 'dud' or 'dud sac', and no,
5 months is no where near long enough to rule out her having mated.
 

venomous.com

Arachnoknight
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Our E campestratus laid one of these last week and I was wondering if anyone knows. I remember reading about someone having this happen to their Avic and they knew it hadn't mated with any T.
That was my Avic I believe, everyone called it a dud sac if I remember correctly. I bred her a month later and she laid a second fertile sac. :clap:
 

robd

Arachnobaron
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I forgot to include that she didn't take very good care of it. She actually abadoned it. I left it in there a few days after I noticed it was there, but I noticed she went nowhere near it and just stayed in the crevice that she dug near her wall. I pulled it and it was hard as a rock. I don't think she wrapped it or rolled it very well.

I will try searching for a potential mate here soon, as, if nothing else, it seems she is primed for a date.

Thanks.
 

AbraCadaver

Arachnoknight
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I think my GBB is brewing up one for me now.. She just keeps getting fatter and fatter, but wont take any food..
 

robd

Arachnobaron
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If there's any chance that this is also happening to your GBB, the one sign I noticed is that the abdomen will get and stay large like a gravid T, but will not turn black.

Obviously a lot of intangibles come into play with this, because T's can seem like they are in premolt, but really they aren't and they're just working toward getting their appetite back. I've yet to own a GBB, but I have seen this behavior in our E campestratus and with rose hairs as well. Unsurprisingly, not at all with L parahybana or A geniculata.
 

MIC

Arachnosquire
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I had a similar case with my L.violaceopes. She laid an infertile sac (I adopt the term 'dud sac') a month ago and she never has been mated before. Probably, she is telling me to find a good guy for her:razz:.
 

NevularScorpion

Arachnoangel
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I had a similar case with my L.violaceopes. She laid an infertile sac (I adopt the term 'dud sac') a month ago and she never has been mated before. Probably, she is telling me to find a good guy for her:razz:.
yup I think that is a good sign :) I feed my Ts a lot so most of my adults are really fat, when I try to breed them they are very receptive. When Ts are fat they usually develop eggs inside their body even though they are not mated. So a female that has eggs can breed easily compare to females that don't have eggs in their body.
 

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
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Agreed, "dud" or "false" sac..

However.. what intrigues me more is how this comes to happen. Surely there is some chemical or biological "switch" that triggers the formation of eggs within the female but what, in these cases of "duds", causes this?

In normal mating there are clear queues for this switch to be flipped such as insertion however in the cases where they've never been around a male what could be the cause?

I know we've all read about the new T keeper who picked up a T at a store, pet show, etc and having a viable sac as well even "duds" and one can simply argue it was a WC specimen however are there known cases where completely CB specimens, no where near a male, produce these "dud" sacs?

How and why do you suppose?
 

ZergFront

Arachnoprince
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Has she molted in your care yet? I'd let her keep the sac if she's wild caught and hasn't had a molt in your care. They can store sperm a long time, but once they molt, that reserve is all gone.

It is just possible. You may get a dud sac and I don't want to give your hopes up, but you don't know what she was up to in the wild. It could happen. :D *fingers crossed*

EDIT : I really need to read the whole thread. Well, least you know. LOL!
 

moose35

Arachnoprince
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are there known cases where completely CB specimens, no where near a male, produce these "dud" sacs?

How and why do you suppose?
yes it happens with virgin females.

maybe they do it for practice...:D

or maybe to get rid of any extra eggs they already produced.


moose
 

Ictinike

Arachnobaron
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yes it happens with virgin females.

maybe they do it for practice...:D

or maybe to get rid of any extra eggs they already produced.


moose
Practice.. maybe :)

While I can understand a KO'ed WC female these virgin's putting out egg sacs is just weird and one would imagine if they have a constant flow of "egg material" lets say, like human females monthly, why doesn't it happen more often?

Oh well just questions and debate.. The whole "pre-insertion" and "post-insertion" phases of a T's reproductive system is I'm sure not fully understood or researched. Maybe it is but I don't think I've ever come across anything really much more than what is discussed around breed here daily.

Thanks again for now making me ponder more Moose! ;)

Practice.. :worship:
 

CAK

Arachnoknight
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I don't call it a dud sac or a false sac or Ghost sac...

I call it "Practice for the NEXT sac!" :D
 

SpiderDane

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Nov 8, 2009
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My Sericopelma sp. "rubronitens" did the same thing a few months ago {D

The sac was not fertile, and all the eggs were black :barf:

I see it as a sign that she is happy with her home :D

Sorry if my english isn´t the best, but its my secondary language
 

Mattyb

Arachnoking
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About 4 years ago i bought a female G.rosea from a LPS and a couple months later while cleaning the cage i noticed she layed a sac. I pulled the sac and opened it. The sac had eggs in it, but they were all dried up. So unless the dealer that the LPS bought this G.rosea from mated it, she layed a sac without "getting giggy with it" lol.
 
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