Rosehair death curl, burrowing, or molting??

ArizonaT

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
10
Hello! I apologize if this has been discussed before- I searched for similar discussions all over the internet, but couldn't find a satisfying answer.

My rosehair is about 3 years old and has only ever molted once before, although I've fed her regularly.

I'd fed her about a month and a half ago, and after eating quite a few crickets she burrowed in her cave by patching up the entrance with dirt. I removed the remaining crickets immediately, put water in her bowl, and let her be for a couple of weeks.

About two days ago she dug out the side of the cave, about 1/2 from the glass of her terrarium, and sat for a couple hours. I thought that was strange so I checked on her every few hours. Almost every time I checked she was in a totally different spot.

At one point, her legs began to look a little curled, so I wet half of her cage floor. She went to the wet side almost immediately and hung out for a while. I left for a day, came back today and she was hanging out on top of the hole she'd dug in between her cave and the wall.

I checked again about 4 hours ago and she was laying sideways, a little curled up, half way in the hole. There is a very small sling on the hole, as well. I haven't touched her at all since she's been on her side.

I then searched the internet to make sure she wasn't dying and read T's can't drink water from sponges (which she's had in her water dish for about 2 months now). I'm really worried that I've dehydrated her as it's been in the 100's where I live, although her cage stays a bit cooler and she's lived through this before. But maybe she couldn't get to her water and died in pre-molt? I don't know. Please, if anyone has any insight, I would really appreciate it.
 

Tarantula20

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
93
How long has she been on her side she may actually be about to molt if shes not dead, Dehydration is probably one of the most common causes of deaths for t's and in your case is definitely a probable cause in your situation. If she has passed sorry for your loss.:(
 

EulersK

Arachnonomicon
Staff member
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Feb 22, 2013
Messages
3,290
There is a very small sling on the hole, as well.
Surely this is a typo? o_O

Regardless, it sounds like a tarantula just being a tarantula. When they're approaching a molt, they begin to get themselves in very strange positions, such as what you've described. I'd remove the sponge immediately, provide clean drinking water, and call it a day. The fact that it closed off its hide is a very good indicator of an impending molt.

Can you provide a picture of the enclosure?

Also, before the chorus of "Why would you moisten a G. rosea?!" starts, I'd like to bring up that I've had to boost the humidity in even my arid species enclosures lately. It's been a brutal summer.
 

ArizonaT

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
10
How long has she been on her side she may actually be about to molt if shes not dead, Dehydration is probably one of the most common causes of deaths for t's and in your case is definitely a probable cause in your situation. If she has passed sorry for your loss.:(
She's been like that, not moving for about four hours. I've read before that they don't die quickly of hydration, but you can tell that they're progressively slowing down. She was moving around MUCH more than usual just two days ago, and then very suddenly dropped on her side four-ish hours ago.
 

ratluvr76

Arachnodemon
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
741
Hello! I apologize if this has been discussed before- I searched for similar discussions all over the internet, but couldn't find a satisfying answer.

My rosehair is about 3 years old and has only ever molted once before, although I've fed her regularly.

I'd fed her about a month and a half ago, and after eating quite a few crickets she burrowed in her cave by patching up the entrance with dirt. I removed the remaining crickets immediately, put water in her bowl, and let her be for a couple of weeks.

About two days ago she dug out the side of the cave, about 1/2 from the glass of her terrarium, and sat for a couple hours. I thought that was strange so I checked on her every few hours. Almost every time I checked she was in a totally different spot.

At one point, her legs began to look a little curled, so I wet half of her cage floor. She went to the wet side almost immediately and hung out for a while. I left for a day, came back today and she was hanging out on top of the hole she'd dug in between her cave and the wall.

I checked again about 4 hours ago and she was laying sideways, a little curled up, half way in the hole. There is a very small sling on the hole, as well. I haven't touched her at all since she's been on her side.

I then searched the internet to make sure she wasn't dying and read T's can't drink water from sponges (which she's had in her water dish for about 2 months now). I'm really worried that I've dehydrated her as it's been in the 100's where I live, although her cage stays a bit cooler and she's lived through this before. But maybe she couldn't get to her water and died in pre-molt? I don't know. Please, if anyone has any insight, I would really appreciate it.
Hi. :) I'd like to ask you a few questions. First, you say she is 3 years old and has only ever molted once. Is she an adult? Do you mean you have had her for 3 years? or you have had her for a while but whoever you got her from said she's 3 years old? How big is she?

If it's possible, could you please upload some pictures of her, her cage you keep her in?

But before you do that, please take the sponge out of the water dish. Tarantulas can not, despite what the online "care"sheets tell you. They need, and drink clean clear water. Then, make a new policy for yourself; Online care sheets, pet store care sheets too, are poop. Do not read them. Do not use the advice given. Use the forums here instead.

You said it's been in the 100's where you live. Do you keep her outside? do you not have air conditioning? do you keep your house at 100 degrees inside too? if so, I'm sorry! :( Generally speaking, room temperature is fine for tarantulas. If you're comfortable, they are comfortable. If you do keep her outside..... consider bringing her inside.

Depending on her size, you may actually be feeding her too much. An adult rosea will be happy with 2 - 3 crickets at a feeding, fed roughly once a month. Maybe every three weeks at the most.

and the way you describe her laying halfway on her side with a tiny sling by her... sort of makes it sound like a sperm web to me. Again, please post a picture of her. Make sure there's also a picture of her front legs, from the side if possible. Once you've uploaded those, we will be able to help you better. :)

in the mean time, welcome to the boards, nice to meet you. :cat:
 

Tarantula20

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
93
As Eulersk said pictures would definitely help in this scenario and from what your saying also going along with what he said she may just be molting. Also are you sure shes 3 years old if shes a normal adult size she probably closer to 8-10

Ps: I consider him to be five times over my experience level so if while helping you we have conflicting views(doubt we will) take his advice.
 

ArizonaT

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
10
Surely this is a typo? o_O

Regardless, it sounds like a tarantula just being a tarantula. When they're approaching a molt, they begin to get themselves in very strange positions, such as what you've described. I'd remove the sponge immediately, provide clean drinking water, and call it a day. The fact that it closed off its hide is a very good indicator of an impending molt.

Can you provide a picture of the enclosure?

Also, before the chorus of "Why would you moisten a G. rosea?!" starts, I'd like to bring up that I've had to boost the humidity in even my arid species enclosures lately. It's been a brutal summer.
I've removed the sponge and added fresh water. I also moistened some of the dirt in the corners away from where she had flopped down.

By "sling" I meant she made some webs around her, but barely. Not at all like previous burrowing spiders I've had. I'm worried she might have been too dehydrated to molt, but tried anyway and has died as a result?

I guess I'll have to wait it out. Thanks for the insight!
 

Tarantula20

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
93
What your seeing is most likely a web mat almost all tarantulas will make these as a sort of protection from the ground well molting.

Sadly all you can really do is wait but don't worry to much none of what your describing is to out of the ordinary for molting tarantulas.
 

ArizonaT

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
10
This is the best picture I could get. It's too dark now to take a better, but maybe I can try again in the AM. And I feel I'm just now realizing maybe the dirt is too shallow? If she comes-to, I'll try adding more in a couple of weeks.
 

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Tarantula20

Arachnosquire
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Oct 19, 2014
Messages
93
Now that I see that picture that does seem like a very unusual position for her to be in. None of my T's have ever molted like that.

What is the size of the enclosure your using?
 

ArizonaT

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
10
Hi. :) I'd like to ask you a few questions. First, you say she is 3 years old and has only ever molted once. Is she an adult? Do you mean you have had her for 3 years? or you have had her for a while but whoever you got her from said she's 3 years old? How big is she?

If it's possible, could you please upload some pictures of her, her cage you keep her in?

But before you do that, please take the sponge out of the water dish. Tarantulas can not, despite what the online "care"sheets tell you. They need, and drink clean clear water. Then, make a new policy for yourself; Online care sheets, pet store care sheets too, are poop. Do not read them. Do not use the advice given. Use the forums here instead.

You said it's been in the 100's where you live. Do you keep her outside? do you not have air conditioning? do you keep your house at 100 degrees inside too? if so, I'm sorry! :( Generally speaking, room temperature is fine for tarantulas. If you're comfortable, they are comfortable. If you do keep her outside..... consider bringing her inside.

Depending on her size, you may actually be feeding her too much. An adult rosea will be happy with 2 - 3 crickets at a feeding, fed roughly once a month. Maybe every three weeks at the most.

and the way you describe her laying halfway on her side with a tiny sling by her... sort of makes it sound like a sperm web to me. Again, please post a picture of her. Make sure there's also a picture of her front legs, from the side if possible. Once you've uploaded those, we will be able to help you better. :)

in the mean time, welcome to the boards, nice to meet you. :cat:
Considering the lighting in my apartment, these are the best photos I could get.

I keep her inside, by a shade-covered window, with another light cloth over the side of the cage facing the window. It doesn't get more than 85 degrees in my house, typically, although I don't have an a/c, and it hasn't been too bad in a couple of days. But without proper water, who knows.

I typically put 3-5 crickets in her cage every other month, and remove the ones she doesn't eat and let them go.

I don't believe it's a sperm web. My description wasn't very good, I guess. Maybe you can tell what I mean by the pictures: it's just a couple of very small webs here and there around her little hole. Another thing you may be able to tell from the pictures is how curled up she is, and how wedged between her cave and the wall she is. She's been just like that for more or less four and a half hours now.

I got her when she was about the size of a quarter about 3 years ago online from "ken the bug guy" since I'd talked to people who liked him.

I say "her" when referring to my T, but I'm not 100% on her actual sex.
 

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ArizonaT

Arachnopeon
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Aug 12, 2016
Messages
10
Now that I see that picture that does seem like a very unusual position for her to be in. None of my T's have ever molted like that.

What is the size of the enclosure your using?
Her terrarium is about 17X11 inches.

I posted a few more pictures in another reply on this thread just now.

I beginning to believe she had died and fell in rather than burrowed, but I'll wait a few days before I move her just in case. :(

Thank you for all your help!
 

Tarantula20

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
93
Ya sadly with how that enclosure is there is definitely a chance she had a fatal fall, If you don't want to wait a few days. If you see no movement by tomorrow maybe try to prod her with a paintbrush or straw?

If theirs no response she most likely has passed away, from either a fatal fall or dehydration. Sorry for your lose :(
 

ArizonaT

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
10
Ya sadly with how that enclosure is there is definitely a chance she had a fatal fall, If you don't want to wait a few days. If you see no movement by tomorrow maybe try to prod her with a paintbrush or straw?

If theirs no response she most likely has passed away, from either a fatal fall or dehydration. Sorry for your lose :(
Thank you for all your help.
 

Tarantula20

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
93
No need for it man that's what this forum is all about having a helpful community to improve the hobby!
 

ArizonaT

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
10
Hi. :) I'd like to ask you a few questions. First, you say she is 3 years old and has only ever molted once. Is she an adult? Do you mean you have had her for 3 years? or you have had her for a while but whoever you got her from said she's 3 years old? How big is she?

If it's possible, could you please upload some pictures of her, her cage you keep her in?

But before you do that, please take the sponge out of the water dish. Tarantulas can not, despite what the online "care"sheets tell you. They need, and drink clean clear water. Then, make a new policy for yourself; Online care sheets, pet store care sheets too, are poop. Do not read them. Do not use the advice given. Use the forums here instead.

You said it's been in the 100's where you live. Do you keep her outside? do you not have air conditioning? do you keep your house at 100 degrees inside too? if so, I'm sorry! :( Generally speaking, room temperature is fine for tarantulas. If you're comfortable, they are comfortable. If you do keep her outside..... consider bringing her inside.

Depending on her size, you may actually be feeding her too much. An adult rosea will be happy with 2 - 3 crickets at a feeding, fed roughly once a month. Maybe every three weeks at the most.

and the way you describe her laying halfway on her side with a tiny sling by her... sort of makes it sound like a sperm web to me. Again, please post a picture of her. Make sure there's also a picture of her front legs, from the side if possible. Once you've uploaded those, we will be able to help you better. :)

in the mean time, welcome to the boards, nice to meet you. :cat:
I just realized I never actually responded to you like I thought I had.

Thank you for the welcoming, it's nice to meet you as well! I'm definitely still getting the hang of it.
After a bit of mourning, maybe I'll get another T and come back so I can do it right next time.
 

ratluvr76

Arachnodemon
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
741
oh this is so sad. :( I'm sorry if she's passed or is dying. I hope, if she does die, that you will try again, maybe with a little bit more suitable enclosure. There are a few things you can do differently to prevent this type of thing happening again.

1. a 10 gallon aquarium is good for a G. rosea, personally, I prefer 5 for them. They are not very large spiders and don't need that much space. That being said, a bigger enclosure, in my opinion, doesn't hurt if that's your preference. There are those on the boards that disagree, but that's a discussion for a different thread. ;) and there have been many....
2. For terrestrial tarantulas, the recommended distance from the lowest point of your substrate to the top of the enclosure is 2 times the DLS of your spider. So for a 3 inch tarantula, the distance from substrate to top should be no more then 6 inches. This will ensure that, should she decide to traipse across the top of the enclosure upside down hanging from the top, (mine do this on occasion) a fall will not result in fatal injury.
3. as discussed, clear clean water should always be available in the enclosure.

your feeding schedule is perfect. I didn't realize you'd had her this long. If I sounded, or sound, condescending or "talking down" please don't take it that way, i'm not meaning to be.

finally, I hope you will try another spider. With that enclosure, maybe you'd like to try an Avicularia species. They are right at home in enclosures like that, although that one is kind of big for any spider. ;)

keep us posted on what happens with your girl. I really hope she's just molting. 4 hours isn't a long time to be on her back like that. molting is a long and exhausting process as you know. :)
 

cold blood

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
11,861
Yup, that enclosure is entirely unsuited for a terrestrial....the front opening doors mean you can't add enough substrate to make it a safe enclosure without modifying it. Exo terras should only be used for arboreals.

A fatal fall is almost certainly the culprit, especially considering her recent activity level.
 

Tarantula20

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
93
A fatal fall is almost certainly the culprit, especially considering her recent activity level.
Could not agree more personally for all my terrestrials over 4.5-5 inches I use 5 gallon tanks with 4-6 inch's or shoe box enclosures.
 

ArizonaT

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
10
I checked again this morning, and no changes whatsoever in her position. I moved her legs around gently with a stick and she had no response and lay limp. I don't believe she fell since she was sitting above the very VERY shallow hole for a bit. Her death was sudden, and I believe she crawled (rather than fell) into her small burrow and died.

I do think she overheated/became dehydrated. She's lived in that enclosure for 3 years and never had any problems, and climbed up her cage every once in a while with no issues.

Her enclosure has been too close to the window in too hot of weather, with not enough water, although she did eat just a month ago which should have hydrated her a bit.

I will make adjustments before I get another T, and I will come here for all the advice and education before I start. I really want to do it right and prevent this from happening again if I can.

Thank you all so much!

***and the sponge in her dish was a new addition just a month ago. I bought it and introduced it at the same time as her most recent feeding. I suppose it's the most obvious culprit. Never again will I read a "care sheet". :{ Poor baby spider.
 
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