Regarding recent Phoneutria for sale in USA

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barabootom

Arachnolord
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So you are comparing drunk drivers to Phoneutria ?
What have you taken tonight ?
Luckily we do not have too many people like you over here but things could change.
Have to be honest,you do not deserve to live in a democracy.
Go to China,everything is banned there......including keeping spiders
Also dude.....it is not "your hobby"...it is in fact,our hobby.
Paul, Paul, Paul. You make me chuckle. Thanks for that.

So you are comparing drunk drivers to Phoneutria ?
The comparison I made was in fact, not comparing drunk drivers and phoneutria. Reread it and maybe you'll understand the point I was making.

What have you taken tonight ?
Tonight I had a beer and some hotwings. They were quite good. Thanks for caring.

Have to be honest,you do not deserve to live in a democracy.
I'm fortunate I live in a democracy, because many Americans made huge sacrifices so I can. Kind of like in Europe. I'm not sure you understand what democracy means though. You might want to look it up.

Go to China,everything is banned there......including keeping spiders
That's a good idea. I'd love to visit China. I wouldn't want to live there though. I prefer democracy. (psst. Look that up. And when you do, remember, most people don't like arachnids. Let's not give them reasons to be afraid. I know at this very moment you're not getting the drift of what I'm saying but that's ok. I decided to hint at it anyways. )

Also dude.....it is not "your hobby"...it is in fact,our hobby.
To me it's my hobby. I don't keep tarantulas for you. I do it for my own enjoyment. I really don't want some phoneutria keeper to ruin my right to keep T's though.

Now Paul. When you're actually willing to discuss the topic, I might post again. :)
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
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1,533
Fran, and all..

Every keeper has the RIGHT to decide for themselves what THEY are comfortable keeping.

Neither you, nor any other keeper has the right to tell me that my keeping a venomous species makes you uncomfortable, there I shouldn't keep it. Don't like that there are venomous spiders in this hobby? TOUGH. There are. If you can't handle the thought of someone keeping what you are unwilling to, then you don't understand live and let live democracy.

You don't have the right to enforce your preferences on anyone else. Nor is your argument that other keepers endanger the public ( THE RECORD OF THIS HOBBY STANDS FOR ITSELF----NO PUBLIC ENVENOMATIONS FROM KEEPERS ANIMALS!!!), or that they endanger the hobby for everyone else. That argument can only, ONLY be said of those who keep these animals in a reckless, careless way. For those who know what they are doing, and are being responsible, there is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping Phoneutria, Sicarius, Latrodectus, Loxosceles..etc etc etc.

Fran, you're riding down a slippery slope. What's next...native US Latros? Old World tarantulas? What spiders exactly are you going to draw the line at--whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy and non-threatened? If you have a problem keeping venomous animals, I suggest you reconsider your participation in this hobby, because to a lesser or greater extent THEY ARE ALL VENOMOUS!!!! Everything we KEEP is venomous!! Guess what, they can all bite, sting, spray or do something adverse to their keepers.

Perhaps you'd like to jump ship, and start telling us we shouldn't keep ANY tarantulas or scorpions. But until you are ready to make that leap, your argument is logically void. You can't condemn one venomous animal on principle, and not condemn them all--because the lines between what is too toxic, and what is safe enough (in your mind), is ARBITRARY. And frankly, I don't like the way you'd draw that line. Now, will always be--and have always been--the FIRST to admonish caution to our keepers of more toxic animals. I'm quick to advise people to reconsider keeping something toxic--to make an informed decision. But I do not think you can say your opinion is based on anything related to making informed, free decisions. You are fear-mongering, and obnoxiously forcing your shyness toward venomous species on keepers who know, better than you, how to effectively ensure proper safety protocols when dealing with toxic species. You're lecturing those who know what they're doing better than you do, and you're doing it out of paranoia.

Sorry, but you're on the wrong end of this debate. There is always a minority of the experienced who can safely keep any "doomsday spider" that makes you wet your pants. If that bothers you that people here keep toxic species, I suggest you either ignore it or pick another hobby, because it isn't going away. Venomous keeping is a permanent feature of this hobby,--at least until anti-liberty whackos like you take that away. You go snuggle up to your PETA buddies, but I and the other sensible experts of this forum will be keeping whatever we feel like until then.

The funny thing is that I would bet my life Im a far more experienced keeper than you are, and I have been keeping arachnids for more time than you.
Yet I have to read your stupidity.

I think you wont get this even If I explain it to you 1000 times,just by reading your post. A
As well as you dont seem to be able to comprehend that ACCIDENTS CAN HAPPEN no matter what.

You will be from the bunch of those who, after they send his kid or wife to the hospital because of his stupid and inmature "need" of keeping a potentially deadly spider, realises that it wasnt such a "cool" idea.

I, in the other end, will be the one MATURE,RESPONSABLE AND INTELIGENT enough to AVOID the accident in the first place.

Be my guest, as long as is not my wife or my kid, I dont give a flying. You will bann the hobby yourself.

You and a lot of people like you in this country keep confusing their rights with steping over other people rights.
 
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blacktara

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
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"I bear true, and an existing witness, to this barrel of monkeys,
A self proclaimed immoral success, perfected by each whereof.
Individually deadly and equally so, and spread about the surrendered troops, for even thousands of miles, will not tear apart their communication, or the lack thereof.
Vultures, liars, thieves, each proclaim their innocence, in no suggestion or rhyme.
Your weapon is contained, in the wrecking of the keeping the desired effect.
The breaking of the spirit thwarts the whole being.
Your weapon is guilt, your weapon is guilt, your weapon is guilt.
Guilt."

Chew on that
 

blacktara

Arachnobaron
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355
Fran -wait just a second. "Be my guest, as long as is not my wife or my kid, I dont give a flying." That's basically my position. Add to it only that I dont think YOU are the one to decide who is competent to do WHAT

You have the right to decide for yourself how you should behave, what you should keep, what you need to do, and so forth

Dont try to decidee this for others - even if you have some notion of what bad things you think might happen if others dont behave exactly as you feel they should

Oversee yourself. And only yourself. Keep your side of the street clean, and stay off my side of the street.

What is so difficult to understand about this?
 

super-pede

Arachnobaron
Joined
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Messages
543
This thread should be closed.It has turned into personal attacks at one another and is completely missing the original reason for the thread.Shut it down!
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
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Fran - your deciding what I shoudl or should not be able to do is trampling on MY rights

Which is exactly what I object to

You have the right to decide for yourself how you should behave, what you should keep, what you need to do, and so forth

Dont try to decidee this for others - even if you have some notion of what bad things you think might happen if others dont behave exactly as you feel they should

Oversee yourself. And only yourself. Keep your side of the street clean, and stay off my side of the street.

What is so difficult to understand about this?
What part of YOU KEEPING DEADLY SPIDERS COULD AFFECT NEGATIVELY ME AND OTHER PEOPLE WHOS NOT YOU dont understand?
Should I try in spanish?

El hecho de que tengas aranas potencialmente mortales no solo te afecta a ti pero nos puede afectar a los demas.

:confused:
 

blacktara

Arachnobaron
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And as for "I'm fortunate I live in a democracy, because many Americans made huge sacrifices so I can. Kind of like in Europe. I'm not sure you understand what democracy means though. You might want to look it up "

I personally believe that anyone that understands what democracy means thinks its a TRAVESTY that we live in a democracy

Democracy is mob rule - where 50.1% of the voters can decide to vote themselves largesse of the treasury, or to steal from or trample the rights of the other 49.9%
 

blacktara

Arachnobaron
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What part of I dont condone sacrificng freedom of choice because of what COULD happen do YOu not get?

Responsible for what DOES happen. Not fearful or restricted by what COULD happen.

Again, the wrong guy bodybuilding COULD decide to harm someone. That doesnt mean I condone outlawing bodybuilding. Even if one bodybuilder actually DID hurt someone, I wouldnt condone anything other than making him responsible for his actions - if that is possible

Some mentally unstable guy driving a pickup MIGHT decide tomorrow to kill himself by driving his truck headlong into my living room, harming me in the process. I dont condone outlawing driving.
 

KenTheBugGuy

Arachnodemon
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Guys the postering and gloating about how many and how long really has nothing to do with the idea of it being ok or not. I personally believe they should be ok and I personally would be very selective who I sell too. I know that some would find that offensive but I also have responsibility and liability to who I sell too. Its my right just as I think its the legal right for people to own venemous animals even if fast and furious. These get into the public hands here and there just like all animals and if someone really wants one they will find one and own it. Nothing we can do about that no matter who they are. Its just like guns, you don't think some people should have them but they do be it legal or not. I don't believe in taking away the rights of people though unless they are endangering others. From what I have read in a lot of this thread many of you believe that I personally should never have had one and killed them all on the spot......Mine only went to institutions but i think there are a lot more experienced owners out there than I can ever claim to be. I admire many of the hobbyist personally :) Now we were still super careful with what we had but just because I am a dealer does not make me any more responsible than some hobbyist.

....actually I sent to 1 hobbyist actually. Just did not want to lie....who are responsible keepers also.
 

blacktara

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
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"What part of YOU KEEPING DEADLY SPIDERS COULD AFFECT NEGATIVELY ME AND OTHER PEOPLE WHOS NOT YOU dont understand?"

If and when it does, then I have a liability to accept. That doesnt mean we outlaw people having a chance to exercise responsibile behavior.

Wanting to prvent every possible negative outcome of every possible act that some fraction of us see as unneccessary is NOT the answer

Again, we all end up existing, as opposed to living, in chains in and in a small box of tyranny's making
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
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Nov 8, 2007
Messages
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What part of I dont condone sacrificng freedom of choice because of what COULD happen do YOu not get?

Responsible for what DOES happen. Not fearful or restricted by what COULD happen.

Again, the wrong guy bodybuilding COULD decide to harm someone. That doesnt mean I condone outlawing bodybuilding. Even if one bodybuilder actually DID hurt someone, I wouldnt condone anything other than making him responsible for his actions - if that is possible

Some mentally unstable guy driving a pickup MIGHT decide tomorrow to kill himself by driving his truck headlong into my living room, harming me in the process. I dont condone outlawing driving.


Dios mio...

For the love of God, we need trucks,we need gyms but we DONT NEED DEADLY SPIDERS.
You seriously dont get that? Really, from the bottom of my heart..?

Cant you understand that is not the same example? Dont you see the oranges with apples type of reasoning of yours?

Dont you understand that you should have the freedom choice in your life UNTIL YOU COULD MESS with other people life?

If you dont understand that type of thing, the one getting out of the society should be you. You might need to live in an island, really.
You dont get to understand that your rights are yours UNTIL you mess with other people rights.
 
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