Regarding recent Phoneutria for sale in USA

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Mister Internet

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I'm going to need a stunning example of proof of why this thread should stay alive past tonight.
 

paul fleming

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I'm going to need a stunning example of proof of why this thread should stay alive past tonight.
Mister....I think it should be shut now.
Reason.
We have a lot more sp. to discuss than pho which are not exactly common over here or even on your side.
It is not a real discussion about spids,more a political argument which needs discussing elsewhere as far as I am concerned........I may be wrong and mostly am but I do try :)
Paul
 

Venom

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I'm going to need a stunning example of proof of why this thread should stay alive past tonight.
It's an issue relevant to the hobby. If we don't debate it now....we'll debate it again in some other thread.
 

KenTheBugGuy

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debate

I think its been debated to death though! I think everyone understands the arguements already.

its 26 pages long!
 

paul fleming

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Sorry venom but without educating the masses,this is a waste of time.
It is getting out of hand now and a lot of people here have no concept of the word "venemous"......most think it turns a normal spider into the anti-christ.
We will have to love what we have and let them be the losers.
 

barabootom

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I decided to chime in once more before this dinosaur gets shut down. This thread is rehashing any and all valid points that have already been made. Blacktara, I am a big believer in freedom and really don't want the government overly involved in my life, but I have to agree with Fran and many others, the keeping of phoneutria is a risk to the keeper, but also a risk to my hobby. This particular family is advertised in the press and evil, deadly and aggressive. No, non-arachnid fan, rational or not, is going to be in favor of allowing this family of spiders. That means most of the population. If one arachnid keeper lets this family of spiders, accidentally, bite and kill one person, the government will be all over this hobby and no matter how much you complain, or make rational arguements in favor of the other thousands of safe arachnids, you will lose the rights to many many species. As a freedom loving American, I don't appreciate the risks you're willing to take, that threaten my hobby and my liberties becuase of your misguided concept of freedom. Ok, now it's my turn to make a whimsical don't tread on me fantastical comparison only slightly related to the topic at hand. The government arrests drunk drivers. As a freedom loving American, I want the government to arrest drunk drivers. Drunk drivers threaten innocent people. Phoneutria getting loose in an apartment complex, threatens innocent people, with um..., maybe death. Why would I use the call for freedom to protect that right?
 

xhexdx

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Good post, Tom.

I don't feel there's a need to continue this thread any longer, everything's been said tenfold.
 

paul fleming

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So you are comparing drunk drivers to Phoneutria ?
What have you taken tonight ?
Luckily we do not have too many people like you over here but things could change.
Have to be honest,you do not deserve to live in a democracy.
Go to China,everything is banned there......including keeping spiders
Also dude.....it is not "your hobby"...it is in fact,our hobby.
 
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paul fleming

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Good post, Tom.

I don't feel there's a need to continue this thread any longer, everything's been said tenfold.
good post ?
Are you serious ?
Read it again..... from start to finish.
Especially the thing about "evil" spiders
 
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Venom

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Fran, and all..

Every keeper has the RIGHT to decide for themselves what THEY are comfortable keeping.

Neither you, nor any other keeper has the right to tell me that my keeping a venomous species makes you uncomfortable, there I shouldn't keep it. Don't like that there are venomous spiders in this hobby? TOUGH. There are. If you can't handle the thought of someone keeping what you are unwilling to, then you don't understand live and let live democracy.

You don't have the right to enforce your preferences on anyone else. Nor is your argument that other keepers endanger the public ( THE RECORD OF THIS HOBBY STANDS FOR ITSELF----NO PUBLIC ENVENOMATIONS FROM KEEPERS ANIMALS!!!), or that they endanger the hobby for everyone else. That argument can only, ONLY be said of those who keep these animals in a reckless, careless way. For those who know what they are doing, and are being responsible, there is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping Phoneutria, Sicarius, Latrodectus, Loxosceles..etc etc etc.

Fran, you're riding down a slippery slope. What's next...native US Latros? Old World tarantulas? What spiders exactly are you going to draw the line at--whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy and non-threatened? If you have a problem keeping venomous animals, I suggest you reconsider your participation in this hobby, because to a lesser or greater extent THEY ARE ALL VENOMOUS!!!! Everything we KEEP is venomous!! Guess what, they can all bite, sting, spray or do something adverse to their keepers.

Perhaps you'd like to jump ship, and start telling us we shouldn't keep ANY tarantulas or scorpions. But until you are ready to make that leap, your argument is logically void. You can't condemn one venomous animal on principle, and not condemn them all--because the lines between what is too toxic, and what is safe enough (in your mind), is ARBITRARY. And frankly, I don't like the way you'd draw that line. Now, will always be--and have always been--the FIRST to admonish caution to our keepers of more toxic animals. I'm quick to advise people to reconsider keeping something toxic--to make an informed decision. But I do not think you can say your opinion is based on anything related to making informed, free decisions. You are fear-mongering, and obnoxiously forcing your shyness toward venomous species on keepers who know, better than you, how to effectively ensure proper safety protocols when dealing with toxic species. You're lecturing those who know what they're doing better than you do, and you're doing it out of paranoia.

Sorry, but you're on the wrong end of this debate. There is always a minority of the experienced who can safely keep any "doomsday spider" that makes you wet your pants. If that bothers you that people here keep toxic species, I suggest you either ignore it or pick another hobby, because it isn't going away. Venomous keeping is a permanent feature of this hobby,--at least until anti-liberty whackos like you take that away. You go snuggle up to your PETA buddies, but I and the other sensible experts of this forum will be keeping whatever we feel like until then.
 
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xhexdx

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So Venom...tell me again why burmese pythons require licenses?

Paul - triple your brain cell count and then we'll talk.
 

xhexdx

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I guess my point was they didn't up and require licenses for ALL snakes. They handled the species they felt was a risk, and that's that.

Regardless of freedom, rights, yadda-yadda, you have to concede that if even one person gets tagged by a Pho, the media will have a field day with it. They do it with tarantulas as it is, even with no bite-related deaths.

For the record, I never said there should be a ban on them, but I don't feel like they should be something readily available either, and I'm not comfortable with them in the hobby.

Oh well. Agree to disagree, I guess.
 

paul fleming

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So Venom...tell me again why burmese pythons require licenses?

Paul - triple your brain cell count and then we'll talk.


It is your country guys,you want to end up like the here.....fine.....but don't complain when when you can't bring rattlers or any venemous sp. in.
Your choice.

Joe ,Burmese will become the top dog if they escape,which they have and they will eat everything,including you beloved gators...and pet cats
and dogs for good measure.
If I wanted to breed my burms,I could not imagine a better climate than you have in Florida.
Want to see my 16 foot burm Joe......lol

Also guys,I have never heard of anyone being tagged by any spider in the last 3 years in the UK.........
 
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xhexdx

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I keep forgetting, you're familiar with all the laws in this country and in all its states. Silly me.
 

AzJohn

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plank,they do not require a licenses over here....how smart do you look now ?
Joe,looks like your cell count depleted by one......zippo left ;P
You keep your cuddly teddy bears and I will too but I also decide to keep other not so cuddly things.
It is your country guys,you want to end up like the here.....fine.....but don't complain when when you can't bring a rattlers or any venemous sp. in.
Your choice.
A lot of people have tried to agrue that experienced keepers should be able to keep Phoneutria. Please tell me you're not keeping this species. Really it's making the arguement harder to make.


JOhn
 

paul fleming

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A lot of people have tried to agrue that experienced keepers should be able to keep Phoneutria. Please tell me you're not keeping this species. Really it's making the arguement harder to make.


JOhn
I am not actually,nor am I letting my 16 year old buy an Uzi for protection for school time.
Do you also think I need your permission to keep anything ?
I tell you what...you get my permission.
What spiders,scorpions and snakes do you have experience with ?
I will then tell what I keep
You sound like a rosea type of guy to me ?

A bit more hardcore than pho but I keep these
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=178759
 
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AzJohn

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I am not actually,nor am I letting my 16 year old buy an Uzi for protection for school time.
Do you also think I need your permission to keep anything ?
I tell you what...you get my permission.
What spiders,scorpions and snakes do you have experience with ?
I will then tell what I keep
You sound like a rosea type of guy to me ?

A bit more hardcore than pho but I keep these
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=178759
Glad to see you've read the whole thread. :rolleyes: Plus you know me so well. {D I acutally thought about getting into Sicarius, not because it is "hardcore" but because it has some ammazing adaptations for living in sandy environments. Really it's not that "hardcore" it can't climb glass for one thing, and it's not predisposed to aggressive behavior. I just didn't feel like spending the money. The real reason is that I don't have a lot of room for that species in my collection.

At least your not keeping Phoneutria. That might make me change my mind about allowing them into the hobby, but I guess it does show that dealers can police themselves.


PS I do have a G rosea.


John
 

Ammo87

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Please kill it !!!!!!

Mister Internet please kill this and everytime this subject comes up !!!!!! Its America where we make up our own minds on what we keep and please DONT TREND ON ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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