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Regarding recent Phoneutria for sale in USA

Discussion in 'Other Spiders & Arachnids' started by syndicate, Mar 5, 2010.

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  1. Mister Internet

    Mister Internet Big Meanie Doo Doo Head :) Arachnosupporter

    Why does everything come back to violence for you, man?
  2. Fran

    Fran Arachnoprince

    It was an example, man. :)
    If anybody is "no one" to legislate his "needs", everybody has different needs. Some of wich can be as ridiculous as to keep a deadly spider.
  3. Beardo

    Beardo Arachnoprince Old Timer

    I guess some people have to be "bigger & badder" than everyone else. Maybe its the steroids, who knows? lol.....
  4. Fran

    Fran Arachnoprince

    Here we go. when theres nothing else to say, cos you really dont have anything acutally valuable to say, lets just say something stupid , like that.
  5. Mister Internet

    Mister Internet Big Meanie Doo Doo Head :) Arachnosupporter

    Alright, that was not a license. How about both of you just never speak to each other again, cool? k thanks!
  6. xhexdx

    xhexdx ArachnoGod Old Timer

    Ridiculous and completely uncalled for. Reminds me of the time when someone laid in to me for being skinny. Sure was mature, Dave...

    Fran's argument is valid, although his example may not be...ideal.

    One person's need is most certainly not everyone else's need. Sorry, but nobody has the need to keep Phoneutria.

    It's funny...people argue that passing a law against Pho is the beginning to banning all spiders, scorpions, etc.

    Others argue that a bite or two from a Pho who got loose is the beginning to banning all spiders, scorpions, etc.

    The best solution (in my opinion, of course) is to not keep them, but we should be smart enough to self-regulate it instead of requiring a law to be put in place, especially since it'll be broken anyway. How many people ship their spiders legally? Oh.

    How many people keep mantids illegally? Roaches?

    Hopefully I have made my point.

    • Like Like x 1
  7. Beardo

    Beardo Arachnoprince Old Timer

    Fran, my apologies....again, my tact was in short supply.
  8. My opinion is:

    If the person knows what their doing,gone over many different scenarios in their head(if escape,if bitten,someone else bitten,etc.)will accept the consequences such as being shunned by the hobby for getting bitten or death(bad rep for us).or being responible for the law banning all imports of inverts,than I say go for it.If someone really want's something,they'll get it, theres not much stopping them.I however don't really want to take that risk anymore after keeping one that came off a banana boat.I learned just what this genus is really capable of.They are not at all like A. robustus(which I have also kept).These are fast spiders that are very active and ready to escape at any moment.

    I don't know where they came from but I don't think they should be here.To be honest,I think the world of Ken,but selling these should be done on a personal level.Any egg sacs should not be raised IMO.They should be destroyed.As it is they're illegal here and selling them is just making it worse(the bad rep problem).

    Just my two cents.;)
  9. Ganoderma

    Ganoderma Arachnobaron Old Timer

    i see it as so. maybe not due to pho's but because of something similar. check out one of the cities i lived in in canada (Courteney BC) they banned all arachnids. period. these stupid things always start from someone selling black widows, a mom goes into the store with her kid, freaks out starts a petition with all her friends and the whole damn thing gets banned cause its more convenient than controlling and/or banning specific species. cause once one dangerous spider gets banned, they say "well what about "______________" its dangerous too...and ther eare lots of poisonous species of spiders and scorps that could easily be seen as a threat to ignorant law makers.

    very well said, i completely agree.

    there are places that have fish limits, 6 fish for example in some municipality around vancouver...forget which one. the only kind of controlling i enjoy is conservation. i quite dislike the government ban stick, which tends to not be very discriminating when t comes to "creepy crawly" type animals.
  10. John Apple

    John Apple Just a guy Old Timer

    Fran said it well and it makes sense his actions....'cos Im scared' ...his words...really:)
    Self regulation....ahhh man....who would lead this....:?
    responsible 'Pet' owners should be able to keep whatever they want as long as all precautions and laws are exercised....but there are irresponsible owners that should not.....:shame:
    On another note I would rather sit in a room with 25 phos instead of a fenced in acre with 5 rabid bulldogs
  11. blacktara

    blacktara Arachnobaron

    Self-regulation who would lead this? My answer to that is that I can only worry about my own self-regulation.

    You say that some people have 'ridiculous needs'. I contend that you can decide for YOURSELF what is needed and what is not needed, and what is and isnt ridiculous, for YOU. I dont sanction your right to decide that for anyone else (unless they happen to be your dependent)

    Stop intruding yourself into what other people are doing, about how much other people are making, and stop trying to propose ways to fix the world's ills with other people's money
  12. loxoscelesfear

    loxoscelesfear Arachnoprince Old Timer

    need a wandering spider to bite this thread so it dies
  13. paul fleming

    paul fleming Arachnoangel

    Think it's dead now ;)
  14. first logical post in a while {D:clap:
  15. blacktara

    blacktara Arachnobaron

    Fran let me try to put this in a context you might relate to

    I, personally, see absolutely no need for anyone to bodybuild to the degree and extent that you do. I even see it as ridiculous, in a way. And, noting that you have hinted at violence and are certainly strong enough to carry it out, I could point out that your bodybuilding may pose a danger to other people

    HOWEVER - I do not, and would never, propose in any way, that your right to continue to bodybuild be denied or restricted.

    As long as no harm is done, what you do is your business - even if the potential for harm exists.

    Once harm is done, its another matter entirely

    Free to choose - responsible for those choices - beholden to noone, with the right to seek happiness and prosperity, but not entitled to either

    That's the way I would choose to live and let live

    Now - yes there are some people who, left to their own, would not fulfill the responsibility of making good choices. To me, that is not a reason to take away freedom and choices from anyone else, much less all others.

    In other words, you keep a nasty bug - it gets out and someone else is hurt - then a)you are responsible for the care and treatment of that other person, and for their family or dependents if they die and b) once you have shown yourself irresponsible, then we can talk about now restricting your license to own that dangerous bug in the future

    Quite frankly, I dont want to have some all-powerful entity sheltering me from all potential harm that it thinks I or others could cause to come my way. That's not living

    If we live in fear of all that could go wrong, or of all the possible pitfalls, then nothing would ever get done, and there's no poijnt to living

    If everything is provided for you at no expense (monetary or time or effort) to you - then you can just exist - no reason to really live

    And I am not saying that I need to own a PFera to enjoy living. What I am saying is that, even if the potential for harm, or misuse, or irresponsible behavior exists, that until it happens, you are as free to choose what it takes to make you happy, what you need, and so on, as I am - and we dont have the right to dsecide that for each other, or for anyone save ourselves and our dependents
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  16. I like fran.Ive never contacted him before not even by pm but he always has a point.I think that he's a strong man both physically and mentally.most people see a body builder and they say "gee,what a way to get attention buddy" but fran doesn't seem to care, which is rare these days.In addition he's proud of his body and is obviously one of the things that he lives to do.Besides I like the pics that he post of himself,I think they're cool.

    by the way fran,I hope you don't keep those loaded!:eek:
  17. Fran

    Fran Arachnoprince

    Thanks, I appreciate your words.
    I bodybuild purely for funn , because I love it. Im not really proud of it yet because theres a lot of inprovement to do and Im not jet satisfied :).

    Im a bit hard headed and I do have strong opinions and passion for them, also I like to discuss well argumented subjects because it makes your knowledge grow. Now, there will be always people who will assume things and stereotype.
    Oh well, I dont really care at all. :)
  18. Fran

    Fran Arachnoprince

    So my decition to bodybuild is dangerous to others , as much as to keep a DEADLY spider.
    Your reasoning is stunning. Compering those 2 things is simply unbelievable.

    You are missing an important point:

    If , with my bodybuilding strenght I go anr harm you, THERE ARE LEGAL ACTIONS THAT WILL BE TAKING PLACE against me.

    If an idiot keeps a deadly spider, it scapes and bite me, that guy wont suffer ANY consecuences.
  19. blacktara

    blacktara Arachnobaron

    First of all - I see a violence prone muscleman as much more of a threat (potentially deadly) than any venomous animal. No venomous animal ever goes out actively seeking to harm any human, any noone I know ever delivers a dry bite when they set out to beat someone up

    Second of all - despite what I said above, I dont see it as so much a matter of degree. Free is free, bound is bound.

    Thirdly - I think if someone's venomous animal harms another, then penalties should apply
  20. blacktara

    blacktara Arachnobaron

    Fran,you say that you find comparing these two specific things to be unbelievable

    I contend that this is because of your bias and vested interest in one of those things.

    You see yourself as educated and responsible about what you are doing - so to compare it to something you see as dangerous is unbelievable

    In responsible hands, keepin the Fera is as little a threat as bodybuilding in yours

    In the wrong hands, the iron you pump could be far deadlier than the spider someone else wants to keep

    It's so obvious to you that YOU dont need anyone policing what you do - while everyone else that does things YOU find needless requires Big Brother to keep them in line

    I say good for the goose is good for the gander

    You'll disagree, of this I am almost certain

    The good news for you is that there are plenty of countries in this world who subscribe to your worldview

    Would u consider allowing one to maybe follow my ideals. Or do you have to control and oversee not only yourself but everyone else as well?
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