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Regarding recent Phoneutria for sale in USA

Discussion in 'Other Spiders & Arachnids' started by syndicate, Mar 5, 2010.

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  1. syndicate

    syndicate Arachnoemperor Old Timer

    USA
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    Hello,
    Has anyone manged to ID these to a species level?To me it seems quite silly to sell them labeled "Phoneutria Sp. Brazilian Wandering Spider"
    These spiders are highly dangerous and super fast so I really hope these stay in the right hands.Anyone who has ever kept huntsman spiders or other true spiders like this can tell you that the speed of these is mind blowing..
    Some of the Phoneutria species can be highly defensive from what I've read to.
    Now if worst case scenario someone is bit by one of these Phoneutria that are being sold wouldn't it be valuable information to know what species your dealing with????I highly doubt anti-venom is available in most hospitals here but still come on..I don't mean any harm by this post and don't want to insult anyone selling these but doesn't this make sense?
    -Chris
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. ErikWestblom

    ErikWestblom Arachnobaron

    I can vouch for their speed! Pokies got NOTHING on these guys ;P
     
  3. missscarlett

    missscarlett Arachnopeon

    WA
    Selling these and having them escape seems a really good way to have selling arachnids become regulated??
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. xenesthis

    xenesthis Arachnobaron Old Timer

    the bigger question

    The bigger question that really is the problem is HOW did they get here in the U.S.? Another brown box from Europe? Hidden in personal luggage from somebody's Peru tourist trip?

    Getting animals in the mail is illegal. Big brother watches this board and is already tracking who has been doing it. Sting ops have been put in place. Don't be surprised when USFWS makes a few public press releases detailing who they busted. They are in contact with the postal service and are flagging boxes from Europe and Asia to the the people that have been doing this. They are gathering evidence and the individuals that have been doing this will be caught.

    This brown box problem is totally out-of-control this past year. The sellers on this board that have been engaging it are known. Hobbyists need to stay clear of this illegal activity. This is bad for our hobby. As a buyer, you have the right to ask questions of how the animal was acquired. ASK! In some cases, you need proof that the animal came in legally, the seller should have no problem showing you official import documents that are valid. He/she can blacken out the contact info on their exporter, but the rest of the document can be shown to establish the animal was acquired legally.

    How are certain private hobbyists that post rare species on AB and other sites acquiring these species if they are not getting them legally from an importer like myself? That is the question. If they can't prove it, then don't buy it. Buying something that was illegal obtained from the seller doesn't get you off the hook just because your the customer. Don't take the risk. Say no to brown-boxed (illegally mailed animals) selling.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
    • Clarification Please Clarification Please x 1
  5. 8by8

    8by8 Arachnoknight Old Timer

    I belive that there should be more exotic true spiders in the trade than there is. However, getting such creatures illegaly is going to go down the whole arachno. keeper latter and hurt each and every one of us. I personnaly would keep a wondering spid. but only if I was sure I was getting him legaly.
     
  6. syndicate

    syndicate Arachnoemperor Old Timer

    USA
    Well I will say this from dealing with micro huntsman slings these things can disappear on you in a blink of an eye!Anyone breeding these spiders now or in the future should be extremely careful when working with large groups of spiderlings!

    I have no clue where these mentioned Phoneutria came from..Were they a result of a captive breeding or WC females that were collected gravid??Maybe someone will chime in here and explain?
    -Chris
     
  7. jbm150

    jbm150 Arachnoprince

    I really hope there is some sort of screening process to the selling of these (beyond just being above 18). I'd love to have one but never would. There's just too much risk. Its not like its a Sicarius or LQ, these things are blazing fast, defensive, and can climb glass. There're plenty of hobbyists on these boards who could responsibly keep them, I would just worry about joe blow seeing 'em for sale, impulse buying because they're "badass" and then find themselves over their head with them.

    If you are considering buying one, please please please know what you're getting!
     
  8. What is brown boxing?
     
  9. syndicate

    syndicate Arachnoemperor Old Timer

    USA
    Smuggling animals into the country without proper import permits..
     
  10. Steven Valys

    Steven Valys Arachnobaron

    USA

    .....in a plain "brown box."
     
  11. Scorpendra

    Scorpendra Arachnoprince Old Timer

    I think they're really cool, but getting one would be too risky and irresponsible of me. Right now, at least.

    Rob K
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  12. What

    What Arachnoprince

    Quoted for truth.

    Personally... I know I could keep them, I just dont want to be connected to these spiders in any way. I will be very happy if I am wrong in thinking that Phoneutria will be the straw that breaks the camels back and leads to legislation, but I dont think I am.
     
  13. ftorres

    ftorres Arachnobaron Old Timer

    HEllo All,
    I agree that specific specie needs to be given if possible.

    There has been some recent imports from Peru legally as far as I know.

    So there is a posibility of these spiders showing up in these imports.

    So as long as the person buying the spider is responsible enough, to know if its capable of keeping such spiders, everything will be OK. (Me Hopes :} )

    I wonder how people in Europe keep these species and we have never hear a bad case related to them?????? How do they do it? Do they keep things better than us?????

    regards

    francisco
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  14. KenTheBugGuy

    KenTheBugGuy Arachnodemon

    Spiders

    I would like to say that I did not brown box this in nor would I. I have only sold some of these to venom shops, museums and zoos so far and if a hobbyist was actually going to buy one I would make sure they were responsibly and understood what they paid for. Not one hobbyist has purchased any of these babies. The babies are easy to track and I don't want someone to ever be harmed by these cause that is a huge issue for me. Now if someone wants to question me please do so in a private message no reason to go public for people to start speculating about it when they don't have all the info and could ask me. It has been ID'ed as boliviensis I did not post that and was telling the places that purchased it this. I did not want to post that incase it was incorrect as I don't want to give out wrong info and get peoples hopes up wrongly but was telling the institutions that purchased them some far that info.

    These were not "brown boxed" in to the county I know that for a fact. Not everything "rare" and unique comes underground.
     
  15. ftorres

    ftorres Arachnobaron Old Timer

    HEllo ALl,
    THank you Ken for the Clarification and I hope Todd contacts you in private if he has any more questions.

    regards

    francisco
     
  16. John Apple

    John Apple Just a guy Old Timer

    been wanting some of these for a while...I had one many years ago that came in at strictly reptiles in mistake for a tarantula...or boxed with a bunch of tarantulas...whatever the story:rolleyes: it was mixed in with a shipment by mistake... it was from them...it was juvie female that shed twice and died [old age I assume] a couple years later never been bred but it did lay a unfertile sac ...
    Ken shoot me a pm or give me a call
     
  17. pouchedrat

    pouchedrat Arachnolord Old Timer

    MD
    I'm sure others besides myself have seen various spiders come in on banana shipments in the past. Aren't these one of those species that comes in on occasion?
     
  18. KenTheBugGuy

    KenTheBugGuy Arachnodemon

    Yes they do hitch hike in on occasion.

    I also want to point out to everyone this is not the first highly venomous animal being sold. I do agree these should only get into responsibly hands but so should many of the highly venemous scorpions, widows and other animals we sell. Many huntsman are fast and Australis might not be as fast but one mistake and well.....I can't say I never dropped a scorpion either and well when a scorpion hits the gound they usually are a runnin
     
  19. Irks

    Irks Arachnosquire Old Timer

    You cannot compare the likely hood of being bitten by a widow to the likely hood of being bitten by Phoneutria. Or the danger of being bitten by a huntsman to the danger of being bitten by Phoneutria. They are not even in the same ball park.
     
  20. KenTheBugGuy

    KenTheBugGuy Arachnodemon

    I also agree with that statement you are correct and that is why they should only be in responsible hands. I was not trying to really compare them was just stating that there are other dangerous animals we sell and that we should always be responsible and make sure things go to appropriate places. These are not being distributed to hundreds of hobbyist as some might think....
     
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