Realities of dealing with hot scorps

Hamadryad

Arachnoknight
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Nov 2, 2002
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Hey everybody,
I am interested in hearing from you guys that are more experienced in dealing with the the hot scorps like Androctonus and Leirus - the Buthidae family of scorpions.I have a lot of experience dealing with spiders and centipedes and I have Emperor and Redclaw scorps but I have never made the jump to something like a Yellow Fattail which I am considering in the near future.I am fully aware of the potential of such scorpions but I would like some insight from those of you that own such scorpions and what and how you deal with them on a daily basis.

I am considering purchasing a Yellow fattail and a Deathstalker at the next SCABS meeting which is the small club we have going on out here in Southern California for invert hobbyists.So I look forward to your advice and comments on this topic.

The Spider Hunter:)
 

XOskeletonRED

Arachnodemon
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Spider Hunter,

I simply deal with all scorpions in the same manner...all with a great level of respect and understanding of them being solitary creatures. I pretty much go about everything in the same ways, other that a few extra advisories that all Parabuthus are quite possibly and probably capeable of sraying venom, therefor I use safety glasses when working with them. I pretty much just keep my hands to myself. As far as the majority of descently venomous species, I know that they may become potentially deadly to anyone and therefore, if I don't become ignorant with them and attempt handling and such, nothing along the aspect of that can become a trial of my life. I don't know if you handle your Pandinus scorps, but with the more venomous species, I would refer to it as a death wish, considering they have been known to cause deaths and, or, severe envenomation, several times. Just stick with the advisories just like you would with an Orange Baboon and such tarantulas, and you can't really go wrong with scorpions of high envenomation levels.

adios,
edw. :D
 
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Frank

Arachnobaron
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Feb 22, 2003
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474
To stay in the subject, why do you prefer hot scorps than not-that-hot scorps?


For the name? The hotness? Or are they different than an h. arizonensis which I think is hot because it don't think before trying to sting :) I would like to have an hot one in a few months, but I don't have the experience yet, and I would do everything to don't have the need to deal with it, but I don't know if it is very that different than another scorp that don't hesitate to sting?






Thanks, Frank
 

XOskeletonRED

Arachnodemon
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Frank,

I find all scorpions to some degree, entertaining and highly interesting. I enjoy some of the the hotter scorps more, personally, because they seem to have more of a personality than the others. As far as scorps that would hold the class. of being not so hot, I love desert hairies because they are definitely, in my opionion, the closest you can get to "hot", attitude-wise, without actually getting there. I just like the character of the scorpion and appearance-wise, the "hotter" scorps have the huge cauda (tail) and narrow pedipalps (claws) which make them even more intense for most scorpion enthusiasts. I could care less about the potency of the venom, though it is cool to watch them attack prey sometimes. Honestly, if a Parabuthus and Androctonus were non-deadly, I would still prefer them over the scorpions with thin tails.


adios,
edw. =D
 

invertepet

Arachnolord
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608
I have no problems keeping several species of hot scorpions. I've even had a few escape, left the lids off containers, and I'm just fine. In fact, I think there's one on me right now, and I really don't think tha-

(Hj[wjio0 ef2,f

2*305


,lsf


ll;lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
 

atavuss

Arachnoprince
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Originally posted by invertepet
I have no problems keeping several species of hot scorpions. I've even had a few escape, left the lids off containers, and I'm just fine. In fact, I think there's one on me right now, and I really don't think tha-

(Hj[wjio0 ef2,f

2*305


,lsf


ll;lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
<keeping an eye on the sting forum again>
Ed
 

Hamadryad

Arachnoknight
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Nov 2, 2002
Messages
151
I admit I am curious about the hot ones

I just have recently decided that I would like to responsibly keep in captive care a scorpion along the lines of the Buthidae family...particularly A.australis or L.quinquestriatus...I also like P.transvallicus as well.I myself do NOT handle any of my inverts to be honest - not even my Chilean RoseHairs as even they have demonstrated to me in the past that they can be unpredictable as far as attempting to bite.I have dealt with Scolopendra subspinipes a great deal and was never bit as I was extremely cautious with them...I have several rather hot species of spiders that I have no problem dealing with and my Emperor and Redclaw scorps I never touch or pick up.I definitely fall into the category of invert keeper that does not handle the animals.I have never felt that inverts need to be handled - I think in my opinion that they thrive on isolation and quiet.

I believe that a hot scorpion would probably be easier to deal with than a centipede or spider - centipedes because they are so damned fast and spiders with their ability to climb glass and so forth...and the speed of certain species like H.maculata.However I do NOT underestimate the speed that scorps can move when they want to envenomate.I am at this point just considering the purchase of a hot scorp.I still have to muse upon it and decide if i actually want to go for it.I DO appreciate any advice though from you guys out there that are into them

The Spider Hunter
 

Baphomet

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Feb 22, 2003
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<keeping an eye on the sting forum again>
ROTFLMAO!!

Seriously though, to answer the original question asked by Spider Hunter:

It really depends on ones frame of mind and reason(s) for wanting to own such a hot animal. If, as XOSkeletonRED pointed out for his reason(s) of owning such hot scorps is the pure fascination and enjoyment of such animals, then your experience with such will be less fraught with potential disasters.

XO also made an extremely good point:
"I simply deal with all scorpions in the same manner...all with a great level of respect...

These type of creatures do indeed demand respect, for they are not forgiving creatures should you loose focus when dealing with them.

Many are aggressive...most will sting...and many can cause death or permanent injury(ies) if given a chance.

My experience with "hot" animals actually started with owning hot snakes: Coral Snakes, Mojave Green Rattlesnakes, Fer-de Lance, Eastern Diamondbacks, and a Green Mamba.

One thing a person learns real quick is this...distance and complete mental focus are your freinds: a lack of either is a recipe for disaster...and mistakes only take fractions of a second.

Now that I live in California, I am not allowed the pleasure of my hot snakes, but I have, through the years, worked my way up, so to say, to the hot scorpions.

I am completely fascinated by the mystique and almost prehistoric beauty of these creatures. To me, they hold a "beauty", if you will, that no other living creature can for their primative yet highly evolved (oxymoron?) survival.

But make no mistake, although small in size, these beauties can and will pack a punch if you are not careful in your actions when working with or around them.

I think I mentioned this before, but I would also like to point out a very serious flaw that has, inadvertantly, been perpetuated by many well intentioned people who are veterans of scorpion ownership...one does NOT have to own a "hot" scorpion to be considered a "true" scorpion afficionado!

If you are not comfortable with these types of animals in the house; or you are not quite at ease working around "hot" scorps, then do NOT get them!

There are many factors to consider other than your own well-being. By owning such an animal, you are responsible for the safety of those around you as well: Your spouse, child(ren), and visitors to your home.

Do something stupid like let one escape by housing it in a enclosure that isn't escape-proof and you have just endangered the lives of those around you.

Think long and hard before purchasing one of these animals, for there is much to take into consideration when owning a scorpion (or any potentially lethal animal). Be honest with yourself in regards to your experience level, and work your way up from there.

As with any potentially lethal animal, you must be able to provide the proper housing, and use the proper tools (forceps, eye-protection, moving apperatus', etc.) when dealing with them.

One of the biggest mistakes I have seen with owners of "hot" animals (more specifically snakes), is how many times a owner is compeled to handle it just one time.

Always...always be focused on the job at hand when working around them...you may let your gaurd down; they will not!
 

Professor T

Arachnodemon
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Re: I admit I am curious about the hot ones

Originally posted by Spider Hunter
I definitely fall into the category of invert keeper that does not handle the animals.I have never felt that inverts need to be handled - I think in my opinion that they thrive on isolation and quiet.

The Chicken Hunter
We all think you are chicken to handle them, and we double dog dare you!

;P


PS- Arachnids and Centipedes really are display animals that should not be handled. I think its very refreshing to have someone admit they keep them in a responsible manner. People desire the close contact with their pets, but there is no doubt these pets like people at a distance.

Your post was well stated, and you are a good role model for others. I am rethinking having my students hold T's, even one that I know won't bite. I could be responsible for a kid getting bit later in life. Thanks for making me think about that.
 

skinheaddave

SkorpionSkin
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I thought I'd just touch a bit on the escape-proof bit. I find many people are over-confident about what constitutes escape-proof. Scorpions can't climb glass, but they can sometimes get a grip on the corners with the silicone. Also, they can prop themselves up right on the end of their metasoma against the glass, so if there is anything they can grab onto at the height of their full length, it is a risk. Basically, though you could probably keep them in an open aquarium, a secure-fitting lid is actualy a necessity.

As for letting people handle Ts, I think in some respects the benefit outweighs the risk. Just make it clear that you have found your T to be predictable and safe and that not all of them will be that way. I think more damage is done through fear of the unusual than through becoming too comfortable with it. If handling a spider overcomes the fear, but not the respect, then the world will be a better place.

Cheers,
Dave
 

XOskeletonRED

Arachnodemon
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Well stated, gentlemen! Perhaps this thread will better educate those in need of it. You never know, it may even save the life of someone. An annoyance is that none of us would ever know it, nor would the person it helped.


adios,
edw. =D
 

skinheaddave

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Aren't the best good deeds those which the recipient gets without knowing and which the actor never knows the end results of?

Cheers,
Dave
 

XOskeletonRED

Arachnodemon
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Exactly, Dave. :D

adios,
edw.

But, it's still cool when you know what you've accomplished sometimes. It's even more fun when they don't know you're the one who did it and talk to you about it for years to come. =D I get that all the time.
 

Hamadryad

Arachnoknight
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Nov 2, 2002
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Ummm...I think I am gonna wait a bit

Okay, I will admit that I am sort of uncomfortable with the thought of having a YellowFattail in my bedroom.I AM rather comfortable with my other inverts being that I treat them with a great deal of respect for the damage that they ARE capable of - like my Earthtigers and H.maculatas and so forth.After this discussion we have had here I do not think I am completely ready to deal with the likes of A.australis - I have no doubt that I could maintain it but it DOES give me pause to think that one slip up could be fatal.I have researched this scorpion and it says that its venom and the amount delivered can kill a full grown man in about 2 hours.Yikes.That is pretty heavy business to be sure.I was thinking maybe I should try a scorp that is not as lethal as this one.I have Emperor and RedClaw scorps..what other kind of scorps do you guys recommend as an intermediate step up from Emperors - a scorp that has some "Zing" to it but will not absolutely kill you dead if you were to get nailed.I hope I am phrasing this correctly.I would someday like to get a YellowFattail or Deathstalker but I think I need to work up my confidence and experience level higher.

So any recommendations as to what kind of intermediate level scorps would be good?

The Spider Hunter
 

skinheaddave

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Well, if you want to see them, you can't beat Centruroides. They are hotter than what you have, some by a bit and some by a lot. They tend to like to climb, though, and will quite happily hang out in plain view. Grosphus, Mesobuthis, Babycurus and others are buthids that are less lethal than Androctonus, Parabuthis and the likes.

From what I understand, Hadrurus does make a good training scorp for keeping hots, though I have never kept one myself. That may change someday, but there are a few dozen speices on my list before that.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Reitz

Arachnobaron
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Feb 12, 2003
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There are two parts to this post. First, an envenomation from an A. australis will not kill a healthy, unallergic, grown man in 2 hours. The LD50 recorded for A. australis is around 0.35 mg/kg, which means that an 180lb man (81.6 kg) would have to receive an injection of 28.21 mg of venom. The most venom I have ever heard reported during a milking was 4 mg. This does not mean that the scorp isn't dangerous. It is very easy to build up a sensitivity, that is if one does not already exist. On top of this, an A. australis envenomation can lead to other long-term problems, including muscle and circulatuion difficulties, and even loss of digits (fingers). The reason I'm posting this is because I don't want rumours spread that could damage the future of this hobby.

It must be noted here, however, that the LD50 for a mouse is surely markedly different from that of a human. Also, the scorps range, diet, stress level, age, and health all are factors in the potency of a sting. Individual reponses will vary, and extreme care should aways be taken with any venomous animal.

That being said, I too would recomend a Centruroides, specifically margaritatus, as Dave once recommended to me!

Also, you can't go wrong with a desert hairy, I perfer H. spadix. They should prepare you well for a desert hot, since they behave similarly and don't climb particularly well. Just be careful, if they want to hurt you, they can, and they're more aggressive than anything else I keep!

Peace,
Chris
 

skinheaddave

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Originally posted by Reitz
That being said, I too would recomend a Centruroides, specifically margaritatus, as Dave once recommended to me!
Sure that was me? I can believe a Centruroides recommendation, but C.margaritatus sounds like something John (Kugellager) would recommend.

Cheers,
Dave
 
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