Reactions to the bite of a stonecentipede

millipeter

Arachnoknight
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Maybe somebody are interested what happens when a bigger stonecentipede bites you.

For example there are experiments made by the Dermatologist Mr Hase (1928) which were made with Lithobius variegatus, a stone centipede common in the western part of Europe, Great Britain and also Ireland. The species is about 0,8-1,2 inches and is similar in size like L. forficatus and belongs to one of the biggest Lithobius species here in Europe. Here is a short summary given of the results.

The centipedes only can bite through the skin at softish areas. In the experiments of Hase he was bitten at the crook of the arm. The animal was only sit down the skin at pulled down a bit. The fangs drill into the skin and the animal was sitting quiet for maximum 30seconds before it ran away.

1.) after the bite it’s bleeding out of the bite

2.) The bite leads to full pain intensity directly after the bite (not growing). The pain feels like burning and prickle, a hard traction or an electric pulse which is compared to the size of the animal is quite strong. The pain spreading out quickly over and beyond the area becoming later erythema/welt. The pain lasts for 2-6 minutes at maximum intensity and fade away after max 15minutes.

3.) 1-6minutes after the bite there becomes an oval welt with maximum diameter after 20minutes measuring about 2,9-4,6 inches.

4.) 1-6minutes after the bite (always after the welt) the skin becomes an oval erythema measuring 2-6,5cm after 15-25 minutes lasting for over 30 minutes

5.) The skin is anesthetic in the area of the bite for some hours

6.) 2-3 hours all symptoms are gone.

The symptoms are not caused by the fang. There were made experiments with needles which were similar in size like the fangs of this species and these caused not this pain and the other symptoms. The symptoms are caused by the venom.

Here is a picture of the head of a L. forficatus female (1,2inch). Scale: 1 = 0,5mm
 

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Choobaine

Arachnobaron
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Awesome dude!

Thanks very much man! :) Where did you get this from? I'd love to read in depth on this!
 

millipeter

Arachnoknight
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Hase, A. (1928): Neue Beobachtungen über die Wirkung der Bisse von Tausendfüssen (Chilopoda). Beiträge zur Experimentellen Parasitologie. 2 - Parasitology Research 1 (1): pp. 76-99

Unfortunaley it is written on German :(

But there are some other publications handling with this theme:

Iorio, Etienne (2004): Les appareils venimeux des Chilopodes: mécanismes et pathologies. - Bulletin de Phyllie 20 (2): 23-33

Lavaud, F.; Bouchet, F.; Remy, G.; Sabouraud, D.; Perdu, D. (1996): Morsure de myriapode (Lithobius forficatus): un cas de reaction systemique. - Myriapod bites. A case of systematic reaction to a Lithobius forficatus bite. - Semaine des Hopitaux de Paris 72 (31-32): 982-984

Mohri, S.; Sugiyama, A.; Saito, K.; Nakajima, H. (1991): Centipede bites in Japan. - Cutis 47 (3): 189-190
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
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very cool! thanks for that detailed write up man!
 
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millipeter

Arachnoknight
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@caco: I don't think that you are good example for other (younger) keepers cause it is always a risk for health but I find it amazing that you seem to be not resistant against the venom like some guys are resistant against the venom of snakes, spiders etc.. Your Antibodies and documented bites would be interesting for research anyhow :D
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
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@caco: I don't think that you are good example for other (younger) keepers cause it is always a risk for health but I find it amazing that you seem to be not resistant against the venom like some guys are resistant against the venom of snakes, spiders etc.. Your Antibodies and documented bites would be interesting for research anyhow :D
i *might* be finally developing a slight resistance to S. polymorpha venom... but nothing dramatic like immunity. for most of the first two years or so that i got bit by just about any polymorpha i almost always had local swelling but now i need to get bit by a decently sized (3+"/8cm+ BL) individual to get any swelling... i *think*. but on the other hand, the reactions don't seem to be getting any worse either


local scorpions have actually gotten worse and worse for me (but i have read that seems to be the case with scorpion stings in general). species that used to barely hurt at all now hurt a decent amount.... and sometimes kill wafers of my skin. i try not to get stung as much now heheheh
 

josh_cloud

Arachnoknight
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ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! i can't wait till eltyra&antenna sees this. i wonder if this is snough to silence him.

caco, choo...... you are hereby vindicated!!!
court is now out of session.

millipeter: thanks for digging up this info, this is just what was needed in another thread that is now closed... little pedes can bite. end of story.
 

millipeter

Arachnoknight
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I watched the last days the entertaining discussion roughly but I didn't have enough time to write here and as I had the time it was already closed :(
 

Choobaine

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*smiles and bows*

heh, thanks Josh! :p

Once again, millipeter, you're a valuable source of sources! :) I salute you!

I'm glad things like this are documented, I love the fact that humans are researching absolutely everything! This world is far too incredible to leave a single, tiny thing out.
 

josh_cloud

Arachnoknight
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hey, no problem. i have a pretty good idea that caco knows what he's talkin about. i read over on the ats as well. dr. shelly is over there too. he's the man in the know and he praises caco quite often.
so, umm what's up with your new avatar? is that goth or emo? j/k!
 

Steven

pede-a-holic
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thanx milipeter :worship: :worship: :worship:

Iorio, Etienne (2004): Les appareils venimeux des Chilopodes: mécanismes et pathologies. - Bulletin de Phyllie 20 (2): 23-33
damn, why haven't i thought of that one yesterday :)
just recently read that one,

i'm not going to post any of the PM's i got,
but i think everyone is also convinced by now that the placement of the headplate towards the 1st tergite is not useless in scolopender taxonomy ;)
 

Elytra and Antenna

Arachnoking
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The centipedes only can bite through the skin at softish areas.
Nobody read this part? Nobody noticed the experiment was the guy having it bite hime in the armpit and sitting there up to 30 seconds at a shot?
It's a thin-skinned people conspiracy!
 
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Elytra and Antenna

Arachnoking
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local scorpions have actually gotten worse and worse for me (but i have read that seems to be the case with scorpion stings in general). species that used to barely hurt at all now hurt a decent amount.... and sometimes kill wafers of my skin. i try not to get stung as much now heheheh
You know there's evidence scorpion stings have lasting effects right?
Since we're apparenlty allowed to revive closed threads I'd like to address your jellyfish venom comparison to centipedes. The vast majority of jellyfish and coelenterates feel sticky to the touch because although the pneumatocysts fire and contain venom they can't penetrate the skin. Only certain ones like fire corals and some jellyfish have pneumatocysts capable of penetrating the skin up to a millimeter and those do sting.
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
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You know there's evidence scorpion stings have lasting effects right?
uh yeah, i said i had read that and said it is happening to me ;)



Since we're apparenlty allowed to revive closed threads I'd like to address your jellyfish venom comparison to centipedes. The vast majority of jellyfish and coelenterates feel sticky to the touch because although the pneumatocysts fire and contain venom they can't penetrate the skin. Only certain ones like fire corals and some jellyfish have pneumatocysts capable of penetrating the skin up to a millimeter and those do sting.
i wasn't comparing jellyfish to centipedes. they are quite different. rather i was pointing out that biting "through skin" is in NO WAY a requirement for envenomation. something you seem quite adament about. you were the one who went of on some bizarre tangent about pouring venom on skin or whatever



Since we're apparenlty allowed to revive closed threads
millipeter, choo, and myself are talkign about centipedes... YOU seem to be the one revivign a closed thread?
 

millipeter

Arachnoknight
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Nobody noticed the experiment was the guy having it bite hime in the armpit and sitting there up to 30 seconds at a shot?
I think you didn't read this part?

for maximum 30seconds
The bite leads to full pain intensity directly after the bite
It was also mentioned by Hase that the length of time of the bite don't correlate with the intensity of the following reactions. Maybe now everybody understand it right.

It's a thin-skinned people conspiracy!
I know somebody who was bitten by L. forficatus between the fingers, were the skin is also quite thin. But I already noticed that this would be no argument for you. Children, some woman and old people have also thinner skin. If you don't work hard with your hands to get a horny skin you can also be bite. But all this doesn't change the fact that you can be bite by a big stone centipede (if intended or accidently) and it can cause a reaction similar to the sting of a honeybee.
But luckily there are not so many people catching stone centipedes or dig into leaflitter and stuff like this ;)

Since we're apparenlty allowed to revive closed threads
I only posted it cause the closed thread showed not clear answer on the question from the threadstarter.
 

bistrobob85

Arachnoprince
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Hase, A. (1928): Neue Beobachtungen über die Wirkung der Bisse von Tausendfüssen (Chilopoda). Beiträge zur Experimentellen Parasitologie. 2 - Parasitology Research 1 (1): pp. 76-99

Unfortunaley it is written on German :(

But there are some other publications handling with this theme:

Iorio, Etienne (2004): Les appareils venimeux des Chilopodes: mécanismes et pathologies. - Bulletin de Phyllie 20 (2): 23-33

Lavaud, F.; Bouchet, F.; Remy, G.; Sabouraud, D.; Perdu, D. (1996): Morsure de myriapode (Lithobius forficatus): un cas de reaction systemique. - Myriapod bites. A case of systematic reaction to a Lithobius forficatus bite. - Semaine des Hopitaux de Paris 72 (31-32): 982-984

Mohri, S.; Sugiyama, A.; Saito, K.; Nakajima, H. (1991): Centipede bites in Japan. - Cutis 47 (3): 189-190
NICE, more centipede readings IN FRENCH :)!!!! I started learning german a while ago and its defenetly not good enough to understand scientific papers but in French, now we're talking :).

Steven, do you also speak French?

phil.
 

Matt K

Arachnoangel
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Greetings-

I see this thread and think to toss this in:

While gardening today and moving a landscape timber I had occasion to get bit by one of these centi's. Its tail end was being mashed under my finger where I had grabbed the timber to carry it off.

Notes:

1. It did not hurt.
2. It bit me repeatedly and there was just a "pinchy" feeling on my index finger, side, middle segment.
3. It may have taken 30-45 seconds to carry the timber to its location before I dropped it. When I felt the tiny pinch, I looked down at my finger to see this centi' biting it.
4. I would not consider myself thin skinned nor thick skinned, about average for a lazy retired guy.

Observations:
This is an interesting topic, though I am dissapointed that Caco and Choobaine (plus Josh cloud) have expressed opinions in such a way that I don't see thier point as much as readily view the lack of wisdom involved in making the posts. I would ask that (as MilliPeter has pointed out) that posts are tempered so that newbies (like me) (despite having biology degree) can better learn from the topic at hand. There appears some serious re-hashing of a closed thread opening here....sleeping dogs should be let to lay. Please and Thanks!

I'm just sayin'....

Peace in the bug hobby baby.
 

Elytra and Antenna

Arachnoking
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I think you didn't read this part?
I did read it pretty closely.

Up to 30 and maximum 30 mean have the same meaning.
If the bite pain is immediate exactly when does the (maximum) 30 seconds take place?

I did a google on stone centipede bites and the info is vague at best. Here's a university site that says only the big centipedes can bite through skin.http://www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/insect/05552.html Even that's pretty vague though a girl named Ashley on a gardening site says her dad got bit by a centipede.

In the original post I threw in normal skin as a qualifier. My skin is pretty normal, I have a desk job. I was making a slight joke - "thin skinned" also means "quick to anger".
 

Elytra and Antenna

Arachnoking
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millipeter, choo, and myself are talkign about centipedes... YOU seem to be the one revivign a closed thread?
Anyone who reads this thread, let alone the other one, knows this quote of yous is a blatant lie. What's the point of that?

You were on the centipede bite depth tangent, I just went with you. I said the NE stone centipedes couldn't even get through the first layer of my skin. Zero depth penetration.
 
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