Questions from a beginner

[Joe]

I've been raising herps for about 20 years, but I've only recently gotten into inverts. I have a few questions regarding scorpions.

Are there any species that can safely be kept communally? I have a lot of rather large aquariums but no small ones, really. It would be senseless to use 20 gallon tank on one animal.

What are some good species for beginners (other than emperors)? I'm partial to animals that can't kill me.

Thanks in advance.

Joe

 

[Silver.x]

H.Spinifer and Longimanus are good, not as communal as emps though.

 

[Kugellager]

Another good species for a beginner is either of the Desert hairys...Hadrurus arizonensis or Hadrurus spadix; both desert species. They can be kept communally is given enough space, enough hides and food. Though not as easily as any of the Pandinus spp or Heterometrus spp. (jungle species). Those three genus are large-sized scorpions...the Hadrurus are the species you would see outside theri burrow the most.

Other good larger communal species that have a little more painful sting are Centruroides gracilis (Florida variety) and Centruroudes margaritatas(harder to find). A small communal species (2-2.5") that has alot of spunk but is not dangerous is Vaejovis spinigerus; another desert species.

John
];')

 

[Joe]

I'm gathering that emperors are the best communal species? I was planning on buying a trio and putting them in an aquarium that is basically a 2.5' cube. Would this be sufficient?

I'd also like some smaller species, as emperors are rather large.

As far as decorations go, do scorpions generally tend to dig things up?

 

[Kugellager]

If the tank is 2 1/2 feet long on each side you could probably keep 5 Emps in there comfortably. All of the large species mentioned are obligate burrowers and therefore like to dig. Emperors and Heterometrus spp. , IME, usually dig a nice burrow and stop once they are satisfied with it. Either of the Hadrurus spp. generally dig on a regular basis and will dig quite a tunnel complex if the substrate is adequate.

Take a look at the 'Scorpion enclosure' thread in this forum for pics of some of the setups. The same setups can be used for Emps or Heterometrus spp(forest scorpions) and their habitats are very similar. I usually use a pothos philodendron in my humid enclosures to help keep the humidity up.

If you want a nice small species to keep communally then go with Vaejovis spinigerus or Centruroides vittatus (Texas Bark Scorp)...though the C.vittatus is reported to have quite a painful sting.

John
];')

 

[Silver.x]

I'd think even more than five considering what their size would be. right now I have 7 Emperors living in one tank, 25 gallons but none are full grown. I didn't say desert hairies before because they arent the easiest or most communal.

 

[Earth Tiger]

If you are looking for something similar to Emperors in size and temperament but growing faster and more active, i would strongly recommend H. spinifer. It is quite docile when being picked up by my fingers (but becomes aggressive and nervous if it is picked by a pair of forceps or disturbed by any other object other than my hand) and has mild venom.

H. longimanus is smaller and is also more aggressive, nervous and terrestrial. If housed in community you must get at least 3 of them in the tank. If only two are in the tank, the weaker one will pretty soon be killed. But expect some fighting and injuries like limb loss occur even if 3 or more H. l. are housed together.

H. spinifer is more peaceful and do well if housed in community. If the prices of H. s. and H. l. are similar in your district, H. s. is definitely a better choice.

Hadrurus arizonensis is also a good beginner choice. It is more active and has mild venom, but it is very aggressive and handling is discouraged.

If you are looking for true communal scorpions, Chinese Golden Scorpions (Mesobuthus martensii) are your choices. Despite its tiny size, this species and has a more potent venom than the above species and as a breeder I learned the hard way!

 

[Frank]

Hi Earth Tiger,

I've been keeping two H. longimanus specimens together (one male, one female) for over 4 months and everything is fine, they sleep in the same burrow etc. I don't understand why when being kept two together the weaker would be killed, but if they'd be more than two, then the weaker wouldn't be killed. It has no sense IMO.

I read on two serious web sites that Heterometrus sp. venom could cause severe long-time occular problems. It's kinda hard to prove it, but I wouldn't recommend handling Heterometrus sp. They are way more nervous than emperors, and even emperors should be handled with security, as any scorpion can do what they want when they want, it's impossible to "trust" a scorpion.

 

[reverendsterlin]

Mesobuthus martensii (chinese golden or chinese armored) is another common communal species and though a Buthidae is a small and relatively 'safe' species though not recomended for handling.

 

[Kugellager]

To add to the previous comments regarding M.martensii. The venom is reportedly in the range of C.exilicauda which is the US species that has been responsible for deaths. However, no confirmed deaths due to C.exilicauda have been reported in the US since 1968.

That said...M. martensii are very active and make a good communal species. They females commonly come to you gravid if they are mature adults...Two of the 3 females I had gave birth to a litter soon after I got them.

John
];')

 

[Earth Tiger]

Hi Frank,

I think it is a tradition for forest scorpion owners to house at least 3 or more H. longimanus specimens together. The rationale behind this is very simple - if only two scorpions are in the tank, the more aggressive one can always pinpoint and hunt down the less aggressive one since it is the only moving object in the tank. On the other hand, if there are three or more, the more aggressive one will be more difficult to trace a specific target and in fact, it also tends to be less aggressive and more defensive. Obviously no matter how aggressive it is, it doesn't want to have one of its chelae to entangle one scorp - its intended target, while the other chela to be tangled up with other scorp that gets too close to the fight, resulting in a 2 on 1 fight.

In fact, if you are an arachnid wholesaler like me and get a chance to see over 200 H. longimanus or 1000+ M. martensii housed together here, you will see how true my statement is. From my observation, the best way for these blind creatures to stay away from troubles when housed in community is to remain calm. You are lucky in that both of ur scorpions are not too aggressive, but from my experience with so many H. s. and H. l. I have sold, I can tell you that H. l. is more aggressive and individual variation in terms of temperament is much greater in H. l. than the more expensive H. s.. In fact, H. s. doubles the price of H. l. here because of its very docile nature.

The venom of H. s. and H. l. are similar in LD50 and is only slightly stronger than Emperors. But their venom is still among the weakest. People compare an emperor's sting to a bee sting, while that of Heterometrus sp to a hornet sting. You should always bear in mind that different people have different reactions to the same venom; some are allergic or more sensitive to it. Even a bee sting can kill if the victim is allergic to it. Whether they should be handled has been discussed a million times before and I am neutral on this subject, but for me, I do handle them.

 

[Earth Tiger]

M. m. are quite venomous and despite their small sizes they should be treated with respect. I haven't been stung by them before but they are popular among my customers (due to my low price - $1 only ) and from their comments, M. m. have a rather hot sting that causes tremendous pain as well as paralysis and the severe pain won't go away for days. So, treat these little guys with care please!

 

[Bagan]

Although I highly recommend Emperors, another neat scorpion is a Flatrock (Hadogenes troglodytes.)

 

[Joe]

Thanks for all the great input, guys. Phew, I have a lot to think about now. Good thing I have to wait until after Christmas before I decide anything. It'll give me some time to set up their enclosure, anyway.

 

[Bagan]

Might I recommend good strong dividers for your large tanks to house your scorpions in? Just be certain that you fix them just so that they cannot be knocked down by your new additions or you could find some dead and/or fighting scorpions in there.

 

[Eurypterid]

I'd also put in a vote for the various Centruroides species. They have a range of sizes from quite small to the large side of medium; they come in a range of colors from very light to very dark; while some species can have a nasty sting they are not likely to be seriously dangerous to a full-grown adult; they are quite communal and easily kept in large colonies; they are very easy to keep as they need neither particularly moist or dry conditions; they are fun to watch as they are agressive feeders that usually sting their prey; and they don't burrow.

Gary

 

[Kugellager]

Originally posted by Eurypterid
while some species can have a nasty sting they are not likely to be seriously dangerous to a full-grown adultGary

Depends on the species. There are some that are quite nasty and have caused quite a few deaths.

John
];')

 

[Eurypterid]

Yeah, but those deaths are probably due to the age and/or poor health of the person stung, plus the odd allergic reaction.

Of course, I wouldn't want to get tagged by any of them.

 

[Kugellager]

Originally posted by Eurypterid
Yeah, but those deaths are probably due to the age and/or poor health of the person stung, plus the odd allergic reaction.

Of course, I wouldn't want to get tagged by any of them.

Very true...or they are children...and I would definitely would not want to get tagged either.

John
];')