Questions about breeding A.geniculata

AngryMothNoises

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Its been a long time sense I have been active here or into the tarantula scene all together. And years ago after the passing of one of my fave Ts I kinda took a break from it all. I will try to keep this short and to the point.

In 2013 I bought 5 (and got 1 free) A.geniculata slings. With the hopes of breeding them in the future. I have 2 from the 6 I had. (I gave one away along time ago.) I have looked up a few videos on breeding but I am still finding I have a lot of questions. I know my Ts still have a long way to go before I can breed them. All questions are meant for A.geniculatas in terms of breeding.

(I have read up basics on breeding, like if moving the female to a new home for it to give her a week or so before introducing the male. Making sure the female is well fed before adding the male, ect...)

  1. How will i know when (and if) my female is ready to breed?
  2. Should one of each be a male and female, should I avoid interbreeding (as the spiders came from the same sack)
  3. Are A.genics okay for starting breeders? (Or should I forget the project and try another breed?
  4. (This is the big question) Is there any thing specific in breeding A.genics?
Any and all advice helps.
Thanks!
 

EulersK

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1. Only way to know for certain is to look for scleritized spermatheca. I'll leave it to you to look that up. If you don't have an old molt on hand, then aim for about 75% of full sized.

2. Debatable. You can though, yes.

3. They're not terribly difficult from what I've read, but they can be pretty defensive. Also, there are no "breeds" of spiders, there are species. Huge difference.

4. Not sure on that one - look up breeding reports.
 

Marijan2

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(This is the big question) Is there any thing specific in breeding A.genics?
Breed female in first 3-4 months after moulting, after pairing STUFF her good, meaning every 2-3 days as big prey as you can find for as long as she wants
 

EulersK

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Breed female in first 3-4 months after moulting, after pairing STUFF her good, meaning every 2-3 days as big prey as you can find for as long as she wants
That really goes with any pairing, though. I think he's looking for more specifics, like cool downs or humidity changes (if any).
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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Acanthoscurria geniculata first thing first, exactly what is a true geniculata to you? What male and female will you be pairing? As I've stated many times so far I've seen four different mature males this is the link where I posted photos of the males and I also mention what you should do about after the breeding http://arachnoboards.com/threads/a-geniculata-love-story.288601/#post-2548791

There are also five different mature females. Look at this link about the females http://arachnoboards.com/threads/the-two-versions-of-a-geniculata-and-a-brocklehursti.273521/

Before the breeding you simply feed the female very heavy as well not just crickets. I have bred geniculata within a month after the female molts sometimes a little bit longer.
 

Bugmom

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How will i know when (and if) my female is ready to breed?
When the spemethecae are dark. You'll need a molt for that. Then feed the heck out of her.
Should one of each be a male and female, should I avoid interbreeding (as the spiders came from the same sack)
I try to avoid inbreeding whenever possible. There's enough geniculatas that you can find a male that isn't related to your female.
Are A.genics okay for starting breeders? (Or should I forget the project and try another breed?
I would NOT choose geniculata as a starting point. They have huge sacs and the actual breeding is... well... violent. You also need to be as sure as you can that they are in fact geniculatas.
(This is the big question) Is there any thing specific in breeding A.genics?
See reply right above mine.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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As you can see I did nothing special to my girl, she mated, ate the male, ate mice, baby rats, bred and produced a sac in this type of enclosure. She is 7"+ female. I did not cool her down and never do after breeding.
 

AngryMothNoises

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1. Only way to know for certain is to look for scleritized spermatheca. I'll leave it to you to look that up. If you don't have an old molt on hand, then aim for about 75% of full sized.
I read some were (a long time ago) that it takes about 5 years for them to mature. Mine are 3 years old now (and still have a long way to go. Hence why I am asking way ahead of time to get ready.

there are no "breeds" of spiders, there are species. Huge difference.
I am aware of this, cut me some slack its been a very long time for me LOL

I would NOT choose geniculata as a starting point. They have huge sacs and the actual breeding is... well... violent.
I have heard about them being violent. My A.genics are crazy eaters. Didn't know about the huge egg sacks though. This worries me a bit so I might try to breed something first before I try them. I really don't wanna have her eat her mate on my first attempt. A.genics are such good eaters and mine are all ways up for food. I worry that even when fed well she will try to eat the male before he gets a chance. And seeing as it will still be a few years, I am wishing that by then I will have space for all the babies. (I have cared for Phidippus audax egg sacs before)

You also need to be as sure as you can that they are in fact geniculatas.
I am 110% sure they are I don't know why they wouldn't be? I mean when I got them I was looking for A.genics are got them from some one here on the forums. Unless there is a tarantula that looks just like an A.genic? 0=

@ every one: Thank you so much for the help and advice, I will be looking at the threads you have all showed me. I might try another species of tarantula before the A.genics. Something with a small sack (and less known to eat their mate. But hey this could happen to any pair) I am open to any and all suggestions and will continue to read up on the topic.

Any one else who wishes to share their info or times they have bred A.genics please share!
 

Bugmom

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Did you read the links that Exoskeleton Invertebrates posted?

Yes there's tarantulas that look like geniculata. Acanthoscurria brocklehursti. Also hybrids of those two. We are trying to avoid breeding those two species together, or breeding hybrids with pure ones.

Exoskeleton Invertebrates even recommends letting the female eat the male. Which again makes me think you haven't listened to much of what he or I have said.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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Acanthoscurria geniculata should be able to breed at 4" to 4.5" inches the reason why I say this is, in 2009 I bred my 4 to 4.5" inch Acanthoscurria sp. "Brocklehursti". No joke! Photos of dad and mom, mom produced over 400 babies. Sorry no photos of the babies. Mom is in a small deli cup as you can see she is holding on to her egg sac. That photo can give you an idea how small she was.



 
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cold blood

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Unless you are seriously manipulating the growth of the male and female, the male will mature much, much sooner. You would need to cool the male a bit and seriously cut way back on feedings, and at the same time, warm the female and feed her heavily to encourage as fast of a growth rate as possible.

Don't know why we would be concerned that they are the same species, they're sac mates. Yeah, it should be determined if they are brocks or genics or a hybrid, but no matter how you cut it, the two in question are exactly the same.
 

AngryMothNoises

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Which again makes me think you haven't listened to much of what he or I have said.
I have? After looking at the post I can confirm they are A.genics, I knew this from the time I got them. And find trying to figure out what they are irrelevant. (plus, I am asking on how to breed A.genics, not 'are these A.genics?') I have also been reading threads and found this one.

I would rather not have my male be eaten on the first try. If it is advised after the first tries for her to eat him then she will. But from the sound of it, its likely he will be eaten no matter what. I accept that, but there is no harm in trying to get a good few chances out of him. I do appreciate your concern on the matter if I am paying attention or not. Like you said, you suggested that A.genics were not a good starter for new breeders, and I have greatly taken this into consideration AND have made the choice to breed something with a small sack first. I am listening to your advice and taking it. Do you have a suggestion on what a new breeder should start with?

Don't know why we would be concerned that they are the same species, they're sac mates. Yeah, it should be determined if they are brocks or genics or a hybrid, but no matter how you cut it, the two in question are exactly the same.
Yeah I don't really know why this turned into 'is it a brocks or genics' thread. When I am asking for advice on breeding. Its not like I am breeding them now. AND it will be a while before I do, plus I have all ready stated am pretty damn sure they are genics. I have looked at threads, googled my own stuff to make sure and double check. If it really gets down to it I can all ways ask for help in what they are. But right now I am trying to prep my self with info on breeding tarantulas a few years before I start. I understand its important to know this to avoid hybrids or breeding hybrids.

Acanthoscurria geniculata should be able to breed at 4" to 4.5" inches the reason why I say this is, in 2009 I bred my 4 to 4.5" inch Acanthoscurria sp. "Brocklehursti".
That's supper helpful! Also your brock is very pretty! When I do attempt to breed them in the distant future is it okay if I contact you for help should I need it? (you seem to have a lot of info Ancanthrosurria.)
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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Unless you are seriously manipulating the growth of the male and female, the male will mature much, much sooner. You would need to cool the male a bit and seriously cut way back on feedings, and at the same time, warm the female and feed her heavily to encourage as fast of a growth rate as possible.

Don't know why we would be concerned that they are the same species, they're sac mates. Yeah, it should be determined if they are brocks or genics or a hybrid, but no matter how you cut it, the two in question are exactly the same.
I don't know about op's spiders since I've never seen photos of them. You're right about one thing is, if they are sac mates sure with pure species it would be the same but if they are hybrids there will be some babies that will look the same but not all. Example Brachypelma baumgarteni/boehmei I've seen hybrids that have the appearance of a boehmei but still has some characteristics of a baumgarteni, vice versa with baumgarteni that will have some boehmei.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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I have? After looking at the post I can confirm they are A.genics, I knew this from the time I got them. And find trying to figure out what they are irrelevant. (plus, I am asking on how to breed A.genics, not 'are these A.genics?') I have also been reading threads and found this one.

I would rather not have my male be eaten on the first try. If it is advised after the first tries for her to eat him then she will. But from the sound of it, its likely he will be eaten no matter what. I accept that, but there is no harm in trying to get a good few chances out of him. I do appreciate your concern on the matter if I am paying attention or not. Like you said, you suggested that A.genics were not a good starter for new breeders, and I have greatly taken this into consideration AND have made the choice to breed something with a small sack first. I am listening to your advice and taking it. Do you have a suggestion on what a new breeder should start with?



Yeah I don't really know why this turned into 'is it a brocks or genics' thread. When I am asking for advice on breeding. Its not like I am breeding them now. AND it will be a while before I do, plus I have all ready stated am pretty damn sure they are genics. I have looked at threads, googled my own stuff to make sure and double check. If it really gets down to it I can all ways ask for help in what they are. But right now I am trying to prep my self with info on breeding tarantulas a few years before I start. I understand its important to know this to avoid hybrids or breeding hybrids.


That's supper helpful! Also your brock is very pretty! When I do attempt to breed them in the distant future is it okay if I contact you for help should I need it? (you seem to have a lot of info Ancanthrosurria.)
No problem you can contact me.

Just remember though there are some people that say they have geniculata and it turns out to be something different. I know that was not your question I'm just informing you of the possibility of what you may have. I know what a true geniculata or sp. "Brocklehursti" is, even though I believe that there is only two true ones it doesn't mean that it is for some other people. So if you can enlighten me if you can post photo of them I can tell you of what you have, at least you would know what variant you have. I hope that's not to much to ask I do you a favor you do me the favor as well. Thanks!
 

Bugmom

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Don't know why we would be concerned that they are the same species, they're sac mates. Yeah, it should be determined if they are brocks or genics or a hybrid, but no matter how you cut it, the two in question are exactly the same.
You answered your own question: Unless you are seriously manipulating the growth of the male and female, the male will mature much, much sooner. ;)

Then OP might end up like me, and go through mature male after mature male trying to find a dang geniculata; not a hybrid, not a brocklehursti :mad:

I still say that breeding genics (or LP, or any other species that has huge egg sacs) is a bad idea for a first time breeder. I'm not a first timer and yet breeding my genics still feels like a huge undertaking, *but* I know what I'm getting into, I can afford to house and feed them all (both in terms of time and monetary expense of buying sooooo many feeders), plus I have local help and have buyers lined up so I won't be sitting with possibly literally thousands of spiderlings on my shelves. Is/does he? Much like making human babies, the breeding is the easy part :D
 

AngryMothNoises

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So if you can enlighten me if you can post photo of them I can tell you of what you have, at least you would know what variant you have. I hope that's not to much to ask I do you a favor you do me the favor as well. Thanks!
I will try to get you photos of them as soon as I can! (tho it might be a while because lack of camera) How many photos/angles do you need?

if they are hybrids there will be some babies that will look the same but not all.
I can say that all the 6 slings I had all looked the same, I know thats not the entire collection of the egg sac. But maybe that would help in knowing if they are hybrids or not?
 
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